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Alright, I've been reading some stuff in the review thread for the latest Star Trek film, and I saw the movie yesterday. Definitely a fresh take on the franchise that had me thinking about what they'll do in the next movie. But what exactly will they do in the next movie? What can they do? What should they do to follow up this movie and build the universe to a new standard?

Personally, I feel that they should pay attention to some of the political repercussions of what happened in the movie. SPOILERS FOLLOW. First, we know that the Klingons lost around 40 warships to Nero, which is no small loss considering that the Federation lost 6 or 7, perhaps more. On top of losing Vulcan, a founding member, both powers are probably badly crippled. Also consider that tensions between both of these powers and the Romulans are likely heightened by the events of the movie, and the Romulans are the only ones largely untouched. Alright, right then and there you have a good, tense, conflict ready situation that future movies can explore.

What do you guys think?

I was thinking that the Klingons might take advantage of the Federation losses, until I recalled the "40 ships" bit. Incidentally, isn't that what the Feds lost at Wolf 359? Presuming fleet numbers are comparable in this universe, then that is indeed a major loss.

I agree that both powers should be eyeing the Romulans very carefully, but I doubt they'll do another Romulan film. Remember that, counting Nemesis, that would be three Romulan-centric films in a row. Then again, the Klingons were antagonists to some degree in films 3-7, so maybe.

One thing that interests me is the question of weather, now that the Vulcans have no home world, there will be a drive towards Vulcan/Romulan reunification like Spock was trying to achieve in the original timeline. I think there would be a nice irony to that, in that Nero's drive for revenge against Spock ended up achieving Spock's vision.

Also, they should deal with the implications to the timeline. Its still unclear weather the old timeline exists, but regardless, old Spock now appears to be a permanent resident of the new universe. And I'm sure he could tell Starfleet a great deal about the future, new technologies, the Borg coming a century or two down the line, etc. Of course, that all might be handwaved away due to the "temporal Prime Directive," but the implications of this should be massive. That could also be a cause of conflict with the Romulans and/or Klingons, if Starfleet gets a bunch of information they would not otherwise have had that puts them ahead one way or another.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Also, they should deal with the implications to the timeline. Its still unclear weather the old timeline exists, but regardless, old Spock now appears to be a permanent resident of the new universe. And I'm sure he could tell Starfleet a great deal about the future, new technologies, the Borg coming a century or two down the line, etc. Of course, that all might be handwaved away due to the "temporal Prime Directive," but the implications of this should be massive. That could also be a cause of conflict with the Romulans and/or Klingons, if Starfleet gets a bunch of information they would not otherwise have had that puts them ahead one way or another.

I have doubts that Old Spock would necessarily be of all that much help beyond "Yeah, we can do that where I'm from." His ship was destroyed along with the Red Matter, and whatever libraries it would have carried with it.

Does he have some sort of superhuman capacity for remembering things?

Ryan Thunder wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Also, they should deal with the implications to the timeline. Its still unclear weather the old timeline exists, but regardless, old Spock now appears to be a permanent resident of the new universe. And I'm sure he could tell Starfleet a great deal about the future, new technologies, the Borg coming a century or two down the line, etc. Of course, that all might be handwaved away due to the "temporal Prime Directive," but the implications of this should be massive. That could also be a cause of conflict with the Romulans and/or Klingons, if Starfleet gets a bunch of information they would not otherwise have had that puts them ahead one way or another.

I have doubts that Old Spock would necessarily be of all that much help beyond "Yeah, we can do that where I'm from." His ship was destroyed along with the Red Matter, and whatever libraries it would have carried with it.

Does he have some sort of superhuman capacity for remembering things?

I agree, he won't be able to tell them how to replicate all the technology from his time. But he can still give them some valuable information. Locations of certain planets, dangerous areas he and Kirk visited that Starfleet should avoid, the presence of the Borg out there, etc.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Also, they should deal with the implications to the timeline. Its still unclear weather the old timeline exists, but regardless, old Spock now appears to be a permanent resident of the new universe. And I'm sure he could tell Starfleet a great deal about the future, new technologies, the Borg coming a century or two down the line, etc. Of course, that all might be handwaved away due to the "temporal Prime Directive," but the implications of this should be massive. That could also be a cause of conflict with the Romulans and/or Klingons, if Starfleet gets a bunch of information they would not otherwise have had that puts them ahead one way or another.

I have doubts that Old Spock would necessarily be of all that much help beyond "Yeah, we can do that where I'm from." His ship was destroyed along with the Red Matter, and whatever libraries it would have carried with it.

Does he have some sort of superhuman capacity for remembering things?

You make a good point saying that Spock's ship and any example of advanced technology was destroyed, however you forget that Vulcan students at the beginning of the movie were reciting square roots of numbers greater than a million. Plus, if you've watched ST IV, Spock was able to program an extremely complicated flight pattern for time warp from memory (I'm assuming that it was complicated since Kirk seemed impressed in that film). And I just remembered that Spock somehow knew off the top of his head (in this film) Scotty's equation for long distance transportation.

So yeah, I think Spock has some knowledge that the contemporary Feds could exploit. Perhaps not everything, but certainly a lot.

Spock was a science officer on the Enterprise so I am sure he can fill them in on the weird shit that their ships will encounter over the years. The technical details... not so much. How does telling someone they use "quantum torpedos" or ablative armor help them design them? However, if the Federation is an open society with a free press, the Borg, along with the Cardassians, Dominion and Ferengi should be common enough knowledge. It would be ironic if there were alternate-history fiction involving individuals who brought knowledge into the past, but I doubt that Spock would read such trashy fiction I figure that "don't go through the Bajoran Wormhole" would be the number one advice.

He remembers the transwarp equation OK.

Worlds Spanner wrote:He remembers the transwarp equation OK.

So far what we have seen is him remembering math and theories, not any technical details. It will advance Federation science, but aside from things that theory goes immediately to practice (transporters) they will have to invent the devices from scratch.

Spock has shown a huge capacity for remembering and knowing things outside the range of just science. Presumably he has gone through whatever courses Starfleet has, as well as whatever "remedial" schooling Vulcans get. He designs escape proof cells, programs unbeatable computer scenarios, can alter the tracking systems on a photon torpedo on the fly, knows how to fix a warp drive unit etc., etc.

Now granted almost all of that happened in the TOS and TOS Movie eras, but I doubt that Spocks thirst for knowledge would cease in the TNG era. I doubt he would know how to say design a holodeck, but surely he would have knowledge on the designs of things like new model shields and phasers. Perhaps even replicators and whole starship designs.

Even if not, his presence would put the Federation and Starfleet at an extreme advantage.

As far as Spock's contributions to current federation technology go, imagine MacGuyver and Major Samantha Carter had a child, raised him to adulthood, and then sent him back in time to the old west.

Its like that.

Samuel mentioned the Bajoran wormhole. At the very least Spock would be able to fill the Feds in on the powers that be that they don't know about yet.

Just to redirect to the OT though, I was wondering what kind of plots they might use in the next films. Keep that in mind.

I think it would have felt better for the movie if Nimoy's Spock had died somehow. It would have made for an altogether neater wrap-up. As it is, he's a loose end left hanging in an alternate reality who can preseumably predict the future with some degree of accuracy and is privy to all kinds of scientific and technological know-how from his when. It probably would have been better thematically as well, a passing of the torch to the new generation.

Does he have some sort of superhuman capacity for remembering things?

He does, actually.

Remember his training scenes in STIV and this movie? He got bombarded with questions about technology, science, history and philosophy and just plowed through them. He's built a computer interface from scratch with scavenged 1930's parts, he can reproduce complex formulas in seconds, if there's anyone who can bring a sizeable cache of data into the past it's him.

But if anyone would keep that information to himself, it's also him. He didn't even want to tell Spock about his friendship with Kirk for fear of not letting it develop naturally, so I very much doubt he'd share the first bit of future tech or information with the Federation.

Hang on for a minute - before we rush to any conclusions about what he can or can't offer the Federation, is everyone here even sure that he intends to do anything other than try to remain inconspicuous and nameless while he helps the Vulcans rebuild on some obscure colony? I got the impression that he was intending to step aside, literally as well as symbolically, to let the younger Spock live his life as his own. This does make his presence in the Starfleet loading dock and big hall kajigger kind of conspicuous, unless he just slunk through security thanks to having identical biometrics to his younger counterpart, but I still strongly got the impression that he was going to completely withdraw. It doesn't seem like the writers would do an about-face on that and undermine the symbolism with his encounter of his younger self at the end.

I believe I just said that.

I personally felt it was very ambiguous; he more or less insisted that SpockLite stayed in Starfleet while he helped establish a Vulcan colony. I don't remember hearing anything either way about his intentions regarding knowledge.

I personally found it interesting that, contrary to the typical timetravel cliché, Spock Prime didn't die. Also, having Spock around could be the perfect excuse to avoid already threaded ground on the next films, as well as to boost Treknology for the good of more spectacular starship pron.

As for the next movies, if this movie is Trek's Batman Begins, we can only hope the next will be it's TDK (Wich makes me think of the previous movies, with Wrath of Khan being a bit of the TDK of the era's Trek).

Following the thread from Wrath of Khan, I'd like to see balanced opponents, rather than Über-baddies from hell, so we can have some actual tactical engagements between the Enterprise and its enemies (like, you know, in Wrath of Khan) where Kirk and his crew get to show their mettle, rather than "Fire al phazzorz!".

Also, I wouldn't mind to see a new rendition of the Borg, but that'll probably best be left for further down the line.
And a Tom deLancie Q cameo wouldn't be too bad.

With regards to the idea that Spock can help predict the future: um, did you guys somehow miss the whole "This is now an alternate timeline"?

Out of universe: this is a reboot. Everything that has happened in the last 40 years of Trekdom is no longer applicable.

In universe: it's an alternate timeline and there is absolutely no guarantee that the 'future' events Spock experienced will even happen. Sure he could be debriefed, but his existence seems to be known by exactly two people: Kirk and Spock. And the Vulcan survivors need a leader, so that would be a more pressing problem than "HAI GUYS DON'T FORGET THE BORG IN A HUNDRED YEARS TIME LOL". Fuck the borg anyway. They used to be cool.

I reckon they should bring them back as cockroaches.

Stofsk wrote:With regards to the idea that Spock can help predict the future: um, did you guys somehow miss the whole "This is now an alternate timeline"?

Out of universe: this is a reboot. Everything that has happened in the last 40 years of Trekdom is no longer applicable.

In universe: it's an alternate timeline and there is absolutely no guarantee that the 'future' events Spock experienced will even happen. Sure he could be debriefed, but his existence seems to be known by exactly two people: Kirk and Spock. And the Vulcan survivors need a leader, so that would be a more pressing problem than "HAI GUYS DON'T FORGET THE BORG IN A HUNDRED YEARS TIME LOL". Fuck the borg anyway. They used to be cool.

Alternate Timeline or not, there are still events that will happen he will know about... Like oh I dunno, hey don't go through that wormhole at Bjor. Maybe Earth should think about repopulating their humpback population somehow. Hey I know this neat trick for time travel. There are these space vampires called the Borg. Might want to keep a radio around because there is this REALLY BIG probe heading Earth's way.

There are tons of events that have been set in motion that still have a high probability of happening that the Kelvin incident had zero effect on.

For a sequel, I'd like to see a remake of The Cage.

With the right attitude, it could be done.

With Admiral Pike? He's already in a wheelchair Nugz, we've been over this

Gandalf wrote:For a sequel, I'd like to see a remake of The Cage.

With the right attitude, it could be done.

Only if they don't do a direct remake. Part of the original's strength was the mystery and the reveal of the extent of the Talosians' illusions. If that's transplanted 1:1, anyone who has seen the original episode'll be spoiled automatically.

Arguably Frame of Mind was an abstract remake of The Cage. As Bounty says, it needs to be new ground all the way, because in Cage we knew nothing about these characters before the episode started.

The Cage or The Menagerie?