Arrests in New York 'attack plot'

[[R_H]]

BBC

Four men were arrested late on Wednesday over alleged plots to attack targets in and near New York.

The four planned to blow up synagogues and use Stinger missiles to bring down military planes, US prosecutors said.

The men were seized after allegedly planting what they thought were bombs near two synagogues in the Bronx area.

They earlier agreed to buy explosives from FBI agents posing as Islamic militants. New York has been on alert for a new terror attack since 9/11.

The four are charged with conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction within the US and conspiracy to acquire and use anti-aircraft missiles, officials said.

The charges carry jail terms of between 25 years and life imprisonment. The four, all Muslims, are to appear in a federal court later.

They were named as James Cromitie (also known as Abdul Rahman), David Williams (aka Daoud and DL), Onta Williams (aka Hamza) and Laguerre Payen (aka Amin and Almondo).

A senior FBI official in New York said three were US citizens and one was from Haiti.

BBC defence and security correspondent Rob Watson says the case appears to be a classic sting operation against suspected home-grown militants rather than a plot with any links to known international terrorism.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the alleged plot showed "homeland security threats against New York City [were] sadly all too real". 'Sought weapons'

The arrests were the result of a year-long investigation, officials said. "The defendants wanted to engage in terrorist attacks," said Lev Dassin, acting US attorney for the Southern District of New York.

"They selected targets and sought the weapons necessary to carry out their plans."

According to prosecutors, the men planned to detonate cars packed with C-4 plastic explosives outside the Riverdale Temple and the Riverdale Jewish Center in the Bronx district of the city.

They also intended to target military planes at the New York Air National Guard base at Stewart Airport, 60 miles (85 km) north of New York City.In their efforts to obtain weapons for the attack, the men dealt with an informant from the FBI, who provided the group "with an inactive missile and inert explosives."

"They had bags that were set up that they believed to be bombs, carrying about 30 pounds of explosives which they believed to be explosives," FBI official Joseph Demarest told reporters.

'Afghan war anger'

According to prosecutors, Mr Cromitie - whose parents are from Afghanistan - told an FBI informant in June 2008 that he was angry over the US-led war in Afghanistan. He "expressed an interest in 'doing something to America"'.

From October 2008, the informant began meeting him regularly along with the four others at a house in which the FBI had concealed video and audio equipment.

The group allegedly "expressed desire" to attack targets in New York and Mr Cromitie "asked the informant to supply surface-to-air guided missiles and explosives", prosecutors say.

In April 2009, the group agreed on the synagogues they intended to attack and proceeded to conduct surveillance, including taking photographs of the warplanes at the military base, prosecutors say.

Mr Cromitie allegedly pointed out Jews in the street, saying "if he had a gun, he would shoot each one in the head", according to the district attorney's statement.

According to the statement, he told the informant that attacking the Jewish community centre would be a "piece of cake".

He also said he would be interested in joining Jaish-e-Mohammed - a Pakistan-based group considered a terrorist organisation by Washington - "to do jihad".

[hongi]

What is it with terrorists and Jews?

[fgalkin]

What is it with terrorists and Jews?

Muslims hate Jews. Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA. That Black Muslims would seek to blow up synagogues is....predictable.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[hongi]

Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA.

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

[Darth Wong]

Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA.

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

Blacks in America also have a history of hostility against Asians. During the Rodney King riots, Asian communities were heavily targeted for violence, and the white police left them to fend for themselves because they were busy defending white people.

At some point, one must reluctantly adopt the conclusion that a lot of black Americans are simply jealous of anyone who manages to succeed. Maybe that will change in the Obama era, unless the GOP succeeds in its openly stated goal of trying to make America fail under his leadership.

[MKSheppard]

During the Rodney King riots, Asian communities were heavily targeted for violence, and the white police left them to fend for themselves because they were busy defending white people.

And partially because the Asians quickly formed militas and shot at people who tried to loot their stores.

VOTE FROM THE ROOFTOPS

[Pelranius]

Cromitie doesn't sound like an Afghan name.

[Akumz Razor]

From what I've heard they were all fairly recent converts to Islam.

[Broomstick]

Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA.

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

Yes, but don't discount that many Jews supported the civil rights movement because of how it would benefit them, not because of how it would benefit non-Jews.

Besides which, you can be a bigot without wishing harm to another group - I've known many prejudiced people who actually were happy at the idea of one group or another being successful, educated, wealthy, etc. as long as that group was somewhere else far away from them.

[Big Phil]

Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA.

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

Yes, but don't discount that many Jews supported the civil rights movement because of how it would benefit them, not because of how it would benefit non-Jews

I've never heard this claim before. Do you have any sources to support this viewpoint?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Is anyone going to point out the obvious?

A "Terrorist Plot" was Successfully thwarted under a Liberal President. Surely some on the right will say what a great thing this is... Right?

[fgalkin]

Is anyone going to point out the obvious?

A "Terrorist Plot" was Successfully thwarted under a Liberal President. Surely some on the right will say what a great thing this is... Right?

Ummm.....learn to read?

The arrests were the result of a year-long investigation, officials said. "The defendants wanted to engage in terrorist attacks," said Lev Dassin, acting US attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Broomstick]

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

Yes, but don't discount that many Jews supported the civil rights movement because of how it would benefit them, not because of how it would benefit non-Jews

I've never heard this claim before. Do you have any sources to support this viewpoint?

Mostly my memories of the early 1970's, conversations I've had with people, and the like - nothing authoritative. In other words, life experience. Would you be happier if I amend it to say "It's my opinion that ---"?

[Pablo Sanchez]

At some point, one must reluctantly adopt the conclusion that a lot of black Americans are simply jealous of anyone who manages to succeed. Maybe that will change in the Obama era, unless the GOP succeeds in its openly stated goal of trying to make America fail under his leadership.

My understanding is that black antipathy towards Jews and Asians is due to the influence they have over economic life in the inner cities. Black ghettos were often originally Jewish areas (like Harlem or Bedford-Stuyvesant) and consequently a lot of the property was owned by Jews, so the early interaction between urban blacks and Jews would be a landlord-tenant relationship. Later on many stores in the inner city were owned by Asian immigrants who were perceived by Blacks as outsiders exploiting their community. Sudhir Venkatesh's books talk about this a little although it's not their main thrust; many of the stores serving the Robert Taylor Homes projects in Chicago, where he conducted his studies, were owned by Arab immigrants and the residents had very poor relations with these people, just as residents of projects in LA would have with East Asians who supposedly own most such stores in that area. I'd guess about 50% of the antipathy comes directly from what you say, that the blacks living in projects are envious of the most successful people who they see on a regular basis: the people who own the businesses they shop at, who also happen to belong to an obvious different ethnicity. The other half would probably come from simple xenophobia, from the perception of exploitation or price-gouging by the Asian proprietors, and as reaction to the Asian's own possible racism which I don't think can be disregarded.

In the case of Black Muslims like the people arrested in this sting, the Nation of Islam is intensely racist, especially with respect to anti-Semitism.

[Big Phil]

I've never heard this claim before. Do you have any sources to support this viewpoint?

Mostly my memories of the early 1970's, conversations I've had with people, and the like - nothing authoritative. In other words, life experience. Would you be happier if I amend it to say "It's my opinion that ---"?

Sure, if you like... I wasn't alive in the 60's or early 70's, and nothing I've ever learned (books, school, TV, people I know, etc.) would suggest that Jews joined the Civil Rights movement for primarily selfish reasons. That doesn't mean it's not true, or that I doubt your experience, it's simply such a different take on their motivations from everything I've ever heard, that's all.

[Broomstick]

As Jews are not a homogenous block there would, of course, be different motivations for different Jews engaging in civil rights activities. Civil rights wasn't just about rights for blacks but for everyone, even if the schools tend to emphasize just one group's experience. Once upon a time Jews were barred from attending certain schools and universities, joining certain clubs (such as country clubs), and some "sundown towns" included them as well as blacks and other minorities in their lists of undesirables. Hate groups such as the KKK targeted Jews as well as blacks. Jews did not have it as hard as blacks, but they most certainly did face prejudice and disadvantage so joining the civil rights movement was not solely a selfless act but also self-interest.

[Intio]

During the Rodney King riots, Asian communities were heavily targeted for violence, and the white police left them to fend for themselves because they were busy defending white people.

As MKSheppard mentioned, I think that was due to the large number of Korean business owners who took to their rooftops and made the news with their very public display of firepower. Although there were police officers liasing with them, you could still be right that they did not receive as much attention as white areas.

At some point, one must reluctantly adopt the conclusion that a lot of black Americans are simply jealous of anyone who manages to succeed.

Unfortunately I think it is also true that black immigrants to the U.S. do better than indigenous black Americans when it comes to prosperity, career paths, jobs etc. The source for that was a current affairs program from a couple of years ago - so I can't remember the exact study they gleaned this from.

[Broomstick]

I'd argue that our current PotUS is an example where the child of an immigrant African did better than the average black man whose family has been here since slavery days.

[hongi]

Blacks in America also have a history of hostility against Asians.

To be fair, that bad blood goes both ways. You would not believe the amount of discrimination black people get in Korea, and the culture is fairly conservative and insulated (ethnically and otherwise), so I'm not surprised that some Korean shopowners were a bit too eager with the waving guns around.

[Rogue 9]

Black American Muslims equally so, since there is some bad history between the Black and Jewish communities in the USA.

Which is irrationally ridiculous, because a lot of Jews supported and was even instrumental to the civil rights movement.

Blacks in America also have a history of hostility against Asians. During the Rodney King riots, Asian communities were heavily targeted for violence, and the white police left them to fend for themselves because they were busy defending white people.

And today black and Hispanic communities in major cities tend to be antagonistic, sometimes to the point of gang warfare. The pattern shows up again and again.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Why is "attack plot" in quotations marks? They were in the act of planting what they thought were bombs.
Man arrested in "rape" of woman.
Makes it seem like it wasn't realy a rape now doesn't it? The quotation marks imply it is a matter of opinion, under dispute if a rape realy happpened, or just a plain false claim.
I ask again, why is "attack plot" in quotation marks?
Is there a dipute over the facts about planting bombs? Duds or not, bombs are bombs.

[Simplicius]

Why is "attack plot" in quotations marks? They were in the act of planting what they thought were bombs.
Man arrested in "rape" of woman.
Makes it seem like it wasn't realy a rape now doesn't it? The quotation marks imply it is a matter of opinion, under dispute if a rape realy happpened, or just a plain false claim.
I ask again, why is "attack plot" in quotation marks?
Is there a dipute over the facts about planting bombs? Duds or not, bombs are bombs.

Because the world "allegedly" takes up a lot of space in a headline, and it would not be proper for the newspaper to characterize them as guilty until they are actually convicted.

[Sea Skimmer]

To be fair, that bad blood goes both ways. You would not believe the amount of discrimination black people get in Korea, and the culture is fairly conservative and insulated (ethnically and otherwise), so I'm not surprised that some Korean shopowners were a bit too eager with the waving guns around.

Due, too eager? Those riots were so bad the US military seriously considered sending tanks and other armed vehicles to suppress them alongside the thousands of US federal troops (not just national guard) actually deployed and thousands more federal law enforcement agents. The only reason it did not was out of fear of what would happen if the rioters captured any of the armor, which then lead to tank battles in the streets of LA. As it was federal troops remained on the streets for three weeks, something that had occurred only a handful of times since the riots in Maryland during the United States Civil War.

If not for the restraint demonstrated by all parties on those riots, hundreds or even thousands of people would have died, rather then the ~50 or so actually recorded. It was frankly just lucky that so much anger was vented on property rather then human life, avoiding a wider bloodbath that might have had far worse repercussions.

[Koolaidkirby]

I'd argue that our current PotUS is an example where the child of an immigrant African did better than the average black man whose family has been here since slavery days.

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the first lady the descendant of a slave? I'm pretty sure here family has been in the US a long time,

[The Yosemite Bear]

From what I've heard they were all fairly recent converts to Islam.

from what I heard they were prison converts to islam, and the FBI targetted them based on informents in prison who wanted reduced sentances. Also the FBI agents provided all the equipment. sounds like the paintball guys a few years ago all over again....