Looking for a WWI or WWII flight sim

[Feil]

I'd like to get a WWI or WWII flight combat simulator that fits the following criteria:

-is good
-has decent multiplayer and an active multiplayer population
-can run in a window or supports a widescreen monitor
-runs on windows

Right now I'm considering IL-2 Sturmovik, which I know fits the last two criteria (the demo runs windowed). Is it a good choice? Are there better choices?

[Vanas]

IL-2 is pretty much the only flight sim I've played and enjoyed. Can't speak for the multiplayer though. If you pick it up, see if you can't get IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 though. The addition of bonkers aircraft and Pacific things makes it even more interesting.

[CaptHawkeye]

Their pretty much aren't any real choices other than IL-2. Which is a good, but flawed, combat flight sim I suppose. You might want to mod-it-up as soon as you get it though.

For WW1 their is also Over Flander's Fields. Originally a mod for CFS3 that became a stand alone title.

[Oskuro]

You can try Blazing Angels, but it's more of an arcade shooter, although BA2 let's you fly from inside the cockpit and switch to "sim" controls, wich is a nice middle ground.

[chitoryu12]

Fighter Ace is a downloadable payware game. It has a nice flight model and (last time I was on, at least) a thriving multiplayer community. It also allows you to play on a free trial to see how it is. It's got plenty of WW II aircraft for the UK, Germany, US, Japan, and Russia, including bombers and a few more obscure aircraft. There's normal dogfighting and bombing missions.

[weemadando]

il-2 is my poison for WW2.

It also fits all criteria as it has a huge mod base (not Strike Fighters size, but close) and very active online community.

And you can pick it up without any DRM, in a wonderful downloadable package, with all official addons for $10 through Good Old Games.

[FSTargetDrone]

il-2 is my poison for WW2.

It also fits all criteria as it has a huge mod base (not Strike Fighters size, but close) and very active online community.

And you can pick it up without any DRM, in a wonderful downloadable package, with all official addons for $10 through Good Old Games.

$10? Ugh, I'm annoyed at how much I spent on the game and its add-ons over the years...

For $10, I think that should make the decision easy. As long as he can download 3 gigs.

For WWI, Rise of Flight is coming out, another effort from a Russian company. I don't know much about it though.

Link.

Various YouTube videos featuring Rise of Flight.

[weemadando]

$10? Ugh, I'm annoyed at how much I spent on the game and its add-ons over the years...

Tell me about it. I own IL-2, Pacific Fighters and 1946 retail versions. Who's the fool now?

[Starglider]

I confess I'm waiting for the console version to get IL-2. I know it means no mods, but my home theatre system isn't really set up for PC gaming, and combat flight sims really need that immersive experience.

That said the sim technology video for Rise of Flight does look impressive.

[Agent Fisher]

You want a multiplayer WWII flight sim? If you don't mind playing a monthly fee, Aces High 2. At any given moment, there are about three hundred to five hundred people playing in the two main arenas. A huge amount of planes from all sides of the war. You'll get massive thirty fighter furballs, while B-17 and lancaster bombers trying to sneak by to blow up the hangars. Also includes ground vehicles.

Each arena has three sides, Rook, Bishop and Knights. The battle goes constanly until one side has control of enough bases to reset the map. Also, on friday we do historical scenarios, with about four hundred to five hundred planes. Last week, we flew a horde of P-38Gs low on the deck and destroyed a german vehicle base.

[iborg]

I used to play Warbirds 3 years ago and it was a blast. Damn did I waste entire nights capturing fields with my squad back then
Unfortunately the game's development was... slow. I think it's a bit more realistic FM-wise than Aces High, but the latter certainly has more players.
Anyway, Il-2 1946 is the golden standard for now.

[PeZook]

And you can pick it up without any DRM, in a wonderful downloadable package, with all official addons for $10 through Good Old Games.

ARGH!

Fuck you, ando! Fuck you!

Christ, and to think how much money I spent on some crappy package with shittiest addons available....you just ruined my day!

[Executor32]

IL-2 1946 is also $9.99 on Steam, to provide another cheap source.

[weemadando]

And you can pick it up without any DRM, in a wonderful downloadable package, with all official addons for $10 through Good Old Games.

ARGH!

Fuck you, ando! Fuck you!

Christ, and to think how much money I spent on some crappy package with shittiest addons available....you just ruined my day!

Tell me about it. I own IL-2, Pacific Fighters and 1946 retail versions. Who's the fool now?

It is enough to make you chew your own fucking foot off.

[PeZook]

Yes...yes it is

I bought some stupid "Forgotten Battles" thing bundled with "Ace Expansion Pack". It bragged about having the Pacific theater (it actually had one multiplayer map and no actual naval aircraft) and a ridiculous amount of flyable aircraft, except it didn't: it had 12 or so, and a zillion versions of each one arranged in totally random lists FOR EASIER SELECTION. Otherwise, it was stock Il-2 + Finnish Winter War theater + dozens of B-17 escort missions (talk about boredom...)

And I paid the equivalent of 30 bucks for it

Though you could fly the P-11 against Me-262s, which is a saving grace. And there was a Polish campaign.

Aw, fuck it. I'll just buy this pack of awesome

[Feil]

IL-2 demo doesn't seem to agree with my computer. When I do the "quick play" missions, everything is fine. When I play the included missions, however, everything is fucked up.

I try the default mission with the IL-2M (same plane as the quickplay missions). The airplane yaws hard right while taxiing, but what the hell, that's what rudder is for, I think, so I go straight while pushing z to apply left rudder. Great. Now I'm airborn, with a comfortable airspeed of 180 miles per hour. If I hold the plane level, it should seek its maximum speed. Unfortunately, I apparently have to haul all the way back on the stick just to keep my nose level, and the airplane neither rises nor speeds up. Eventually I run into a hill and die. No amount of retrying fixes the problem. Gear up, flaps any which way, throttle to the max, elevator trim all the way up... nothing works.

Any idea why this is happening? I don't plan on buying the game if the demo doesn't work.

[CaptHawkeye]

I try the default mission with the IL-2M (same plane as the quickplay missions). The airplane yaws hard right while taxiing, but what the hell, that's what rudder is for, I think, so I go straight while pushing z to apply left rudder. Great. Now I'm airborn, with a comfortable airspeed of 180 miles per hour. If I hold the plane level, it should seek its maximum speed. Unfortunately, I apparently have to haul all the way back on the stick just to keep my nose level, and the airplane neither rises nor speeds up. Eventually I run into a hill and die. No amount of retrying fixes the problem. Gear up, flaps any which way, throttle to the max, elevator trim all the way up... nothing works.

Any idea why this is happening? I don't plan on buying the game if the demo doesn't work.

Ok, take this from an actual pilot. Do *not* max the trim on an airplane prior to takeoff ever. You'll get totally unpredictable control forces the moment you leave the ground. The IL-2 is a heavy airplane, treat it as such. When the tailwheel leaves the ground don't pull up, keep building up your speed.

I apparently have to haul all the way back on the stick just to keep my nose level

This is a very bad idea. By holding max deflection when in a stall you just make a bad situation worse. You don't want "maximum speed" what you want is known as "Vy" or the speed that gives you the best rate of climb. Though i admit I never quite learned what the Il-2's was.

The right yawing motion is natural. It's known as P-factor. An airplane's propellor is a spinning object right? Well, it induces a yawing effect on the plane as it spins. Especially if you increase power very quickly and have a high angle of attack. The IL-2's engine is a beast, as are most military airplanes, so they yaw like a bitch. Lock the tailwheel as soon as you're in position on the runway and increase power slowly on takeoff. Gently counteract the yawing affect with opposite force as you move forwards. BTW, the keyboard controls SUCK. You'll crash every time, especially with a plane as chronically over loaded as the the IL-2 Sturmovik.

[Feil]

Ok, take this from an actual pilot. Do *not* max the trim on an airplane prior to takeoff ever. You'll get totally unpredictable control forces the moment you leave the ground.

I didn't adjust trim until after I had failed to take off the first time.

The IL-2 is a heavy airplane, treat it as such. When the tailwheel leaves the ground don't pull up, keep building up your speed.

This is what I did.

The right yawing motion is natural. It's known as P-factor. An airplane's propellor is a spinning object right? Well, it induces a yawing effect on the plane as it spins. Especially if you increase power very quickly and have a high angle of attack. The IL-2's engine is a beast, as are most military airplanes, so they yaw like a bitch.

Interesting. Thanks for the advice, that makes sense.



Well, I was able to get the airplane off the ground this time. I guess I underestimated the weight of the IL-2. This time I was able to get the gear off the ground before I ran out of runway, keep the nose far enough up to clear the small hill past the end of the runway, and keep from planting the propeller in the ground for long enough to agonizingly gain a little speed and altitude.

[Steel]

My first experience of Il-2 was pumping literally thousands of 7.62 rounds from a spitfire into some rubbish aircraft to no effect in the skirmish mission maker, occasionally randomly twitching into an unrecoverable deathspin while in level flight at constant speed... (could have been a crap joystick). Then I tried to takeoff in a german jet bomber following the tutorial. The tutorial helpfully said 'go to 60% throttle while holding the brakes to warm up the engines'. I did this. After 4 seconds a light blinks on the instrument panel, turning my head to the side it appears one of my engines has caught fire and the entire side of the plane is a blazing inferno. The other engine followed moments later. I did not attempt to fly that aircraft again.

The campaign as the Finnish airforce started with mission 1: protect the airfield. I'm number 6, with 5 planes in front of me. As plane 2 begins his takeoff run someone strafes my squadron on the ground, destroying 3,4,5 and me. Restarting I managed to takeoff, then spent 15 minutes climbing up to the level the enemy bombers were at, only to find my plane was an absolute pile of shit that was actually much slower than the bombers unless I managed to get ahead of them and then dive at them, which due to my planes armament of two tiny machineguns resulted in no damage to the bomber.

I didnt really have time to give it a real go at the time. It looked like it could be quite good, but I never really got to see that bit.

[CaptHawkeye]

It turns out you can just beat the stall/spin effect in the game just by hitting "autopilot" though. To me, that's annoying because it's bold faced evidence that the AI CHEATS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER.

The Jets in the game are early, rudimentary designs of the 40s. The Me262 and other German jet designs were notorious for in flight fires due to the shitty throttle assembly and inefficiency of the engines. It's a wonder how many pilots were probably lost to accidents rather than combat in those things. But that's what desperation will do to you.

[PeZook]

Playing the Finnish campaign in anything but the Hurricane is for masochists, to be honest. The starting Russian airplanes totally outperform the crappy little biplane which is the other selectable fighter

And yeah, controls in Il-2 can be icky. For example, I always sucked at the Polish campaign (despite wanting very, very hard to actually learn and become good ), because the Mig-3 you fly is really touchy. It outperforms every single German plane you face, but is so delicate to fly that I never could aim my guns properly.

But that's the charm: most Il-2 aircraft actually feel, fly and fight very different from each other.

[Stark]

I confess I'm waiting for the console version to get IL-2. I know it means no mods, but my home theatre system isn't really set up for PC gaming, and combat flight sims really need that immersive experience.

That said the sim technology video for Rise of Flight does look impressive.

The idea of you playing il-2 on some sank cinema system is utterly hilarious. You have SEEN it, right?

Il-2 might be the only real choice, but it's broken.

[Starglider]

The idea of you playing il-2 on some sank cinema system is utterly hilarious. You have SEEN it, right?

I'm not sure what you mean. The graphics are supposed to be much improved for the console versions, but that's hardly critical. As a student I had great fun playing games like Half Life and System Shock 2 on my old home cinema system (built from salvaged and second hand components and crammed into my one rented room). Surround sound and coverage of most of your visual field is good for basically all 3D games.

Il-2 might be the only real choice, but it's broken.

So what, Blazing Angels was horribly broken (the sequel somewhat less so), but I still completed that. Again I'm optimistic that the console version will have some proper QA work done on it, though I suppose I'll skip it if the reviews are awful.

[Feil]

...OK, something is seriously fucking wrong here. I should not fly an airplane with a cruising speed upwards of 250 miles per hour and an optimal rate of climb of 2000 feet per minute in a straight line for nine miles and be at 50 feet altitude, 180 miles per hour at the end of it. After ditching my bombs and rockets over the ocean halfway through in a desperate attempt to gain some fucking altitude.

Naturally, if I hit the autopilot button, the airplane sticks its nose in the air at an angle of attack that I can't even get to, much less stall out in, and rapidly climbs to 200 feet and 250 miles per hour.

There have been some pretty glowing reviews of IL-2 in this thread, but right now it looks to me like a bug-ridden piece of junk.

[CaptHawkeye]

What is indicated airspeed?

Wait, are you playing the vanilla demo? It's a completely different game. The Il-2 is no stunt plane but i've never found it so challenging to fly it's some kind of balancing act.