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After getting to drop the "Classic" from the Battletech line, Catalyst Game Labs just topped themselves by getting permission to use the classic "Unseen" designs (that were derived from Macross, Dougram, and Crusher Joe) again.

Battletech forums thread in question

Wow, that's kind of amazing.

They are going to get sued so fast.

"...getting permission to use the classic "Unseen" designs..." sort of implies they HAVE the consent of the copyright owners...

Every one of those images in the preview credits only the original Battletech publications they appeared and the artist who drew them. There is no mention of the original creators Sunrise, Studio Nue, Big West, etc. Excuse me for being so presumptuous but for example my copy of Super Robots View Broadly '98 clearly credits each image to its respective copyright owner. Now I will retract my statement if some proper credit is being given, but in my experience Japanese companies are notorious for being reluctant to work foreign companies regarding their intellectual properties.

And what is it with Battletech fans (who I have found to be quite abrasive against any Japanese giant robots) and their love for these particular machines?

The Unseen were the face of the game for a long time. They were most of the minis in the box I had and the warhammer was right on the front of the thing.

VF5SS wrote:Every one of those images in the preview credits only the original Battletech publications they appeared and the artist who drew them. There is no mention of the original creators Sunrise, Studio Nue, Big West, etc. Excuse me for being so presumptuous but for example my copy of Super Robots View Broadly '98 clearly credits each image to its respective copyright owner. Now I will retract my statement if some proper credit is being given, but in my experience Japanese companies are notorious for being reluctant to work foreign companies regarding their intellectual properties.

And what is it with Battletech fans (who I have found to be quite abrasive against any Japanese giant robots) and their love for these particular machines?

Harmony Gold owned all the legal rights to the designs in the US, so they were the only ones that had to be dealt with. Studio Nue and soforth have no rights over them at all in the US. That's why they don't need to be mentioned.

saying 'Battletech Fans' is painting a pretty wide canvas, VF5SS. I happen to enjoy both. But everyone knows the Destroids were more interesting than those transforming F-14s

Also, the Unseen are particularly famous since many of them are iconic and effective designs such as the Warhammer (Destroid Tomahawk), Marauder (Glaug), and Archer (Gladiator). Or literally, the Land-Air Mechs that were Valkyries.

I have to say, most of the 'reseen' were sort of okay redesigns-I really didn't like the new Marauder, for example. That said, I really *do* like the new Warhammer and Battlemaster-they look like a natural evolution of the old designs, so I kind of hope it sticks around.

Nephtys wrote:
Harmony Gold owned all the legal rights to the designs in the US, so they were the only ones that had to be dealt with. Studio Nue and soforth have no rights over them at all in the US. That's why they don't need to be mentioned.

Tatsunoko and by extension Harmony Gold do not own rights to the designs themselves, only the show itself (confusing eh?). They are not allowed to make derivative works based off of those designs. So you're left with the situation where Battletech has to claim itself as merchandise of Robotech or get slapped with a lawsuit. And you're still not counting Sunrise and Takara Tomy who wholly own Dougram and Crusher Joe.

Also, the Unseen are particularly famous since many of them are iconic and effective designs such as the Warhammer (Destroid Tomahawk), Marauder (Glaug), and Archer (Gladiator). Or literally, the Land-Air Mechs that were Valkyries.

Well when you only have like 15 designs giving them an effective set of weapons based on the rules isn't that hard. It's not like when they had to pad out stuff for the first TROs and you get 'Mechs like the Charger which is "lololol 90 tons armed with six small lasers heavy scout" weirdness.

On one hand, it was 5 small lasers. On the other hand, that was the little-used but much-giggled-at variant; everyone who wasn't the DC loaded it for bear with one of the 'not the 1A1' variants.

I'm sorry. I am a stupid purist who plays with stock variants only. I like to work around the flawed ones rather than just pick the ones that work. Makes 'em feel like they have personality you know? Javelin with only SRMs for the win.

White Haven wrote:On one hand, it was 5 small lasers. On the other hand, that was the little-used but much-giggled-at variant; everyone who wasn't the DC loaded it for bear with one of the 'not the 1A1' variants.

Hey, the Charger CGR-1A1 kicked ass. Not because of lasers, but because it was a fast 80 tonner mech. It was great in Melee, since it's mass combined with it's speed allowed for highly effective... charges.

Also, it's BV value was damned low since it was nearly unarmed, so you could field them for cheap.

Edit:
And yes, playing with the standard Mechs is fun. But the TRO-sanctioned variants are fine by me (such as the WHM-6K and 6D variants, or the MAD-3M Marauder which trades the AC for a Large Laser).

Only when you can customized Min/Max does stuff get particularly lame.

VF5SS wrote: Tatsunoko and by extension Harmony Gold do not own rights to the designs themselves, only the show itself (confusing eh?). They are not allowed to make derivative works based off of those designs. So you're left with the situation where Battletech has to claim itself as merchandise of Robotech or get slapped with a lawsuit.

Actually, FASA originally licensed their varied anime designs from Twentieth Century Imports, who did have the import derivatives rights. When Harmony Gold sued them over the Macross designs, FASA won, but they removed the designs because even if they could win the case, it cost them money (and the original reason for using them, the lack of original designs and time pressure to get models cast, was gone as Battletech had a much larger design library), and Revell (who had licensed some of the other products for their toy lines) were getting greedy eyes, and they had deeper pockets than FASA.

And since in 2002 Big West sued Tatsunoko over the derivative rights issue in Japan and won, if HG try it on again they'll get a proper kicking in court, because their original derivative works license was invalid, and FASA's wasn't.

Most of the stuff I've seen still only points to Twentieth Century Imports dealing with Nichimo (Macross kits) and Nitto (Dougram and Crusher Joe kits). That's not exactly an endorsement from the parties in charge.

I don't understand why everyone on those forums is going apeshit about this. Most modern battletech designs are way better than that japanese crap. Hell, I prefer most of the re-designs for the "unseen," with the exception of the marauder which looks like ass.


(Disclaimer: By "modern" I do not mean dark age. Nobody likes dark age.)

Darksider wrote:I don't understand why everyone on those forums is going apeshit about this. Most modern battletech designs are way better than that japanese crap. Hell, I prefer most of the re-designs for the "unseen," with the exception of the marauder which looks like ass.


(Disclaimer: By "modern" I do not mean dark age. Nobody likes dark age.)

Well, some modern designs look pretty cool. Stuff like the Clan Mechs, the Bushwhacker, the Uziel, Fafnir... they all have the 'attack helicopter on legs' look, which is just fine by me.

But for older mechs, they either were the decent Unseen models (being Macross Destroids), or were pretty clunky awkward crap for the most part. Like the Yeoman, Assassin, Jenner, Vindicator, Trebuchet, or the godawful bulbous things in TRO3055.

Admittedly, all of the Reseen versions of the Valkyries and Ost-series look a lot better.

Most of the modern (3060 and onwards) stuff is pretty cool - although the actual miniatures of the Word Of Blake 'Mechs from the 3070 TRO are disappointing, but pretty much all the Clan 'Mechs apart from the Mad Cat, Vulture and Daishi in the 3050 book, and everything from 3055 and 3058 are hideous shite. All IMO, of course.

I like the Unseen. I was lucky enough to get a load of 'em cheap - just missing the Ost-'Mechs, the Goliath and Longbow. The designs are nice enough, but the background FASA attached was stupid - the Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster have near-identical leg designs, and other design similarities, yet are built by 3 different companies across the Inner Sphere. Same thing goes for the Warhammer and Rifleman.

I always wanted to sit down with Maximum Tech and redesign the 'Mechs to fit the miniatures better - things like the Battlemaster, Phoenix Hawk and Stinger (or was it the Wasp?) having hand-held weapons, for instance, or the Locust and Marauder not actually having a head.

Nephtys wrote:

Darksider wrote:I don't understand why everyone on those forums is going apeshit about this. Most modern battletech designs are way better than that japanese crap. Hell, I prefer most of the re-designs for the "unseen," with the exception of the marauder which looks like ass.


(Disclaimer: By "modern" I do not mean dark age. Nobody likes dark age.)

Well, some modern designs look pretty cool. Stuff like the Clan Mechs, the Bushwhacker, the Uziel, Fafnir... they all have the 'attack helicopter on legs' look, which is just fine by me.

But for older mechs, they either were the decent Unseen models (being Macross Destroids), or were pretty clunky awkward crap for the most part. Like the Yeoman, Assassin, Jenner, Vindicator, Trebuchet, or the godawful bulbous things in TRO3055.

Admittedly, all of the Reseen versions of the Valkyries and Ost-series look a lot better.

Not to mention those Japanese designs were the foundation from which most of Battletech's (and possibly by extension all "Western"-style mecha) designs grew from.