California's farmer woes

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

California's farmer woes

Post by Darth Wong »

From the Globe and Mail:
How green was my valley: California's drought
Sonia Verma

Fresno, Calif. — From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Monday, Jul. 27, 2009 06:43AM EDT

For a perfect view of California's economic ruin, Todd Allen's front porch is a pretty good place to stand.

At first, you would never guess it. Mr. Allen, 46, is a blond, bright-eyed farmer, just like his father and grandfather before him.

When a stranger drives to his homestead, nestled neatly in Fresno County, Mr. Allen doesn't dictate directions by distance. He punctuates them with references to things like American flags, the sweet smell of oleander and the point at which a gravel road disintegrates into dirt.

Ask Mr. Allen what he noticed when he drove along the back roads this sunny Friday morning, and his answer comes in a collage of images attesting to America's new hard times.

The lineup at the makeshift food bank by the old rodeo grounds is almost a kilometre long.

Tent cities for the homeless have sprung up on H Street in Fresno.

The last bank, Westamerica, in the nearby town of Mendota has a new sign in the window saying it will close for good.

In California, authorities have begun to issue IOUs instead of cash.

Unemployment stands at 11.6 per cent and 180 cities are set to sue the state over a budget that proposes to close a $26.3-billion shortfall by taking $4.7-billion from their coffers.

In all of this, Fresno County, where Mr. Allen was born and raised, has the unenviable distinction of being the hardest-hit county in the state.

Its jobless rate reaches 40 per cent in some towns. America's housing crisis was its most pronounced here, with prices almost triple a home's value. Nearly half of all sales these days involve foreclosure.

On paper, the numbers are staggering. For the rest of California, Fresno County stands as a cautionary tale of consequences to come.

GONE, GONE, GONE

However, as the state struggles to pull itself out of an epic economic mess, proposing a budget settlement this week that taps into local government funds and cuts health care, welfare and education, Fresno is emerging as a new battleground for the compromises created in the crucible of dire straits.

Which brings us back to Mr. Allen's front porch. Because, for all the signposts of despair that he passed on his morning drive, what kills him, what absolutely kills him, is the moment that he pulls his beige Ford pickup truck into his own fields: 240 hectares of the most productive farmland on Earth, bought by his father to bequeath to his sons.

The fields of wheat, cotton and cantaloupe that sustained his family for three generations are gone. The land is a mess of fallow fields, cracked earth and swirling dust.

However, his particular scene of devastation, Mr. Allen argues, has nothing to do with the credit crisis, the housing crash or the downturn that has California in a vice grip.

It has to do with a seven-centimetre-long, semi-translucent, steel blue fish known as the Delta smelt.

This is not a story about fish. Rather, it is a story about how efforts to save the fish through a court-ordered water shortage have pushed a region already brought to the brink by recession over the edge.

It is also a story about how farmers are fighting back, using almost unimaginable stories of economic hardship to argue for a reversal of environmental rules that could see their farms thrive once again, but also endanger wildlife that may never come back.

As Washington promises stimulus money and their local governments beg for emergency aid to pay for more food banks and shelters, these farmers say an easier answer literally lies beneath their feet.

Their farms, with water, could provide California some of the spark it so badly needs to fuel a more widespread economic recovery.

Central Valley, a semi-arid, 650-kilometre stretch of land is the heart of California's $37-billion agricultural industry. Half of the country's vegetables are grown here. It also ranks as the world's largest agricultural area.

Farmers here have always relied on imported water to make their fields bloom. At the turn of the century, they hauled it by horse and buggy. In the 1950s, Mr. Allen's grandfather, who had immigrated to America from Sweden at the height of the Depression, helped to build a complex network of canals to carry runoff from the Sierra Mountains snowpack south to the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta.

As California's population swelled – to more than 38 million today from 23.6 million in 1980 – the water system became strained. Climate change also took its toll, shrinking the Sierras' snow, and for the past three years, rainfall has been below average.

Environmental groups have long argued that the massive water diversions come with a cost. The tiny Delta smelt was chewed up so badly in the powerful pumps that it was designated an endangered species. Salmon, green sturgeon and a handful of other species showed dramatic declines.

Last December, fresh restrictions meant to protect the fish were imposed, effectively shutting down the spigots and starving the Central Valley farmers of water.

Those in Fresno County saw their monthly allotments evaporate, virtually overnight. Here's how Mr. Allen recalls it: “When it came time to get my initial water allocation in January, we were told it would be zero. In February, my heart was pounding. Zero again. March, same thing. April, zero.” By that point, most of his crop of winter wheat had already withered and died.

UNEMPLOYMENT ‘REALLY SAD'

“The farmers may be facing hardship, but so are the fishermen and the fish,” says Carolee Krieger, president of the California Water Impact Network, a lobby group based in Santa Barbara on the Pacific coast that fought for the restrictions.

If water pumping resumes in the Delta, more wildlife will be endangered, she argues. “The smelt is a bellwether and it's a very important marker for the health of the whole estuary.”

As for impact on humans, “it's really sad that there is unemployment, but we're all in an economic downturn,” she says, noting that stocks are so low, salmon fishing hasn't been allowed in California for nearly three years.

While it's true that the downturn is causing widespread pain, the water restrictions came on the heels of a brutal three-year drought, hitting the farmers especially hard and sending parts of Fresno County – a poor place even in the best of times – hurtling toward collapse.

“There's a big dichotomy between the Fresno experience of California and the Baywatch experience of California,” says economist Richard Howitt of the University of California at Davis. “This state is really one big country with a wide range of situations and these guys are really, really hurting.”

California faces a long list of economic woes, but he contends that water scarcity is an “unprecedented crisis” – the single biggest problem facing California's massive agricultural industry.

Today, Interstate 5, the highway that slices through the San Joaquin Valley, is flanked by parched fields. Signs, in English and Spanish, proclaim: “Congress-created dustbowl” and “No water, No future” and “Like foreign oil? You'll love foreign food.”

The bitter irony that farm families in the region known as America's salad bowl are flocking to food giveaways at churches and community centres is lost on no one.

Without water, farmers have left an estimated 200,000 hectares of once-productive farmland fallow. Thousands of farm workers, mainly Spanish-speaking migrants, have been laid off.

Mr. Howitt estimates lost farm revenue in the San Joaquin Valley could top $2-billion this year and will suck as many as 80,000 jobs out of its already-battered economy.

“This is one of the classic, really difficult trade-offs we are faced with in hard times: environmental values versus human suffering,” he says.

“The rest of California should care about this because what's happening in Fresno is a forerunner of the essential environmental and economic debate that we're going to have because our environmental rules were set up before people were confronted with the real effects of an economic downturn.”

The bottom line, Mr. Howitt says, is that “we are going to have to make fundamental choices. ... It's fish versus jobs and communities.”

OBAMA GETS THE FINGER

Back at the farm, Mr. Allen sits in his office – there is no work to be done in the fields.

On his desk is a picture of his two young daughters. In the drawer are the blood-pressure pills he began to take in April, when he wrote off most of his crops.

A doctored picture on the wall shows a smiling President Barack Obama. He is standing next to a sun-scorched farmer, who is giving him the finger.

With virtually no water this year, Mr. Allen has managed to irrigate and harvest just 16 hectares of winter white wheat, now a key crop here because it can thrive with minimal water.

Since bringing in the wheat last month, Mr. Allen spends most days at his desk, fending off phone calls from telemarketers and the bank.

His farm, a million-dollar operation in good times, is 70-per-cent financed. He also owes money on three tractors, a $140,000 drip system, which is useless to him now, and his house.

“I've never been in a predicament like this … so, if I can survive this year, I can survive anything,” he says, blinking back tears.

When he began to farm full-time 20 years ago, he had a consistent water supply. He also had 10 employees and started with 600 hectares of cantaloupe, cotton and wheat.

This year, he has laid everyone off and is doing what little labour is left himself.

“You know, I am really scared for my family. I have two daughters and I thought I had a future going out here, and now I can't even sell this land because, without water, it is worthless,” he says.

“It seems like in this economy the government would look for quick fixes instead of throwing money at everything. All they have to do is turn the pumps on. The water is there.”

Last month, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger asked Mr. Obama to declare Fresno County a disaster area to boost federal aid.

But when California lawmakers agreed on their budget this week, Fresno's fate seemed sealed.

With the state siphoning off its revenue, the county is laying off 700 workers and seeing its $20-million debt grow to $30-million. Programs ranging from in-home support for the elderly to food stamps will be slashed.

“Without water, we have no way of fighting back,” says Phil Larsen, who sits on Fresno County's board of supervisors.

“In the Central Valley regional area, we've got 40,000 unemployed people. General Motors had 30,000 and got a government bailout. We're getting nothing.”

But most farmers here say they don't want a handout. At a town hall meeting in Fresno a few weeks ago, tempers flared as farmers flustered Interior Department officials by shouting: “We don't want welfare, we want water.”

UNEMPLOYMENT 41 PER CENT

The City of Fresno has a half-million people, but the suffering in the small towns surrounding it seems somehow amplified. Most of these places simply wouldn't exist without the agricultural industry, and these days it looks like they may literally fall off the map.

Mendota, population 10,000, was once famous as the “cantaloupe capital of the world.” Today, it is the jobless capital of America, with an unemployment rate of 41 per cent.

Mayor Robert Silva came to Mendota from Mexico more than 30 years ago as a farm worker, like most people who live in his town. “What's happening here is a disaster,” he says. “When Hurricane Katrina happened, the government gave away housing, food, medicine, but this is just as bad.”

Today, Mendota is a place where mothers wash disposable diapers so they can use them again, and rhyme off 10 ways to cook rice and beans from the food bank so that their kids don't complain about being fed the same meal every night.

It's a place where workers with no work cluster on corners, or pile high in pickups, combing back roads for ways to make a few dollars.

Linda Boustos is 37 years old and has just had a baby. Her husband used to work in the fields. Now, he scrounges around for a chance to make a few dollars by driving a truck.

“We can barely pay our bills,” she says, in Spanish. “I feel desperate. My kids are always asking for money for food.”

If things don't turn around, she will pack up her family and leave, but she has no idea where to go.

Towns like Mendota are already emptying out. What began a trickle now feels more like a torrent, and as people leave, Fresno County's tax revenue evaporates.

Some towns have begun to explore the possibility of simply shutting down, transferring their authority to the county because they can no longer afford to provide basic services.

In the meantime, they are doing all sorts of things to balance their books – from not filling potholes to firing the sheriff and replacing him with volunteer police.

In Firebaugh, the closest town to Mr. Allen's farm, the sales tax usually funnelled to the town from its two biggest businesses – the Ford and Chevrolet dealerships – has fallen off a cliff. The Chevy dealer has been ordered to close by November, and the town's reserves are tapped out, municipal manager Jose Antonio Ramirez says.

“This is all 95-per-cent due to the water crisis,” he says. “The farmers who normally buy the trucks are broke.”

A coalition of farmers has filed a lawsuit claiming that state officials overstepped their authority by ordering the water cuts.

There is also talk of short-term solutions, such as diverting water from other areas to the San Joaquin Valley or rebuilding the pumps so they don't kill the fish.

Environmental groups still maintain that's not enough, and that any form of diversion is ultimately damaging and unsustainable.

Some economists say Fresno County may not survive this economic reckoning in its current form and may fall off the fiscal rails. And farmers wonder, if politicians can suddenly decide that social services are too expensive, why can't they relax environmental rules that no longer seem to make sense.

“This is a place that started out poor and has had this huge loss of wealth because they were ground zero for the housing crisis and now ground zero for the water crisis,” says Steven Levy, director of the Center for Continuing Study of the California Economy, a private research organization in Palo Alto.

Without water, he concedes, “it's hard to see where a recovery will come from.”

WAITING ON THE BANK

The farmers, meanwhile, say they may not be able to hang in long enough to find out.

Todd Allen is waiting to hear from the bank whether he will get financing for next year. The bank, he says, is waiting to hear what his water supply will be. If the money does not come through, he will be forced into bankruptcy. And like the labourers he once employed, and who now wander the roads looking for work, he has no idea what he will do.

“You just look around and you think, ‘Why is this happening in America?' ”

Sonia Verma is a reporter with The Globe and Mail.
Original story with pictures: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1230646/

It's hard to sympathize with the plight of farmers who knowingly tried to build agriculture in the middle of a fucking desert, using water diverted from far away which destroyed fish stocks in the process. It's interesting how the portray it as mankind vs environmentalism, even though fishermen are people too, and I don't see why the needs of farmers automatically outweigh the needs of fisheries.

Of course, the result of decades of irresponsible unsustainable overdevelopment of the land is all Obama's fault.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Edi »

It's the same story in many places in Europe. Fuck them all equally.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Eris
Jedi Knight
Posts: 541
Joined: 2005-11-15 01:59am

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Eris »

And this drought is only the beginning of the problems for western farmers. Lake Powell and a few other reservoirs that service the four corners states plus parts of California are all dropping very very quickly. Farming is going to be more or less completely wiped out without some major changes in the way we live, not to mention the major metro areas - Las Vegas, Phoenix, I'm looking at you - who live in the desert and don't know how to control either their population or their per capita water consumption. It's going to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and we brought it upon ourselves for living in places where large concentrations of people have no place being.

The nice part? People who grow grass on their lawns will be some of the first to get the shaft. And it will be beautiful.
"Hey, gang, we're all part of the spleen!"
-PZ Meyers
User avatar
Erik von Nein
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2005-06-25 04:27am
Location: Boy Hell. Much nicer than Girl Hell.
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Erik von Nein »

Yeah, that sounds about right. So much farmland in this state is sitting on what really does amount to desert. Although, this is pretty much a precursor story to what awaits mid-west America once they've completely drained their aquifers.

I have relatives who are ranchers with a bit of farmland in Monterey county and they've faced similar hardships before, though that was mostly during the time when beef prices went to hell due to the whole mad cow scare. There are a lot of threats to farmers and ranchers that aren't necessarily a result of their own short-sightedness, but this isn't one of them. All the arguments against the Sierra water project are pretty accurate now and this is only one of the consequences.

Although, even in the article the particular guy they followed was starting to use alternative crop sources, such as the white wheat mentioned. That's really the best solution they'll have. Most of them probably don't want to decimate a fish species, it's just extremely difficult for them to see beyond their situation.
"To make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe."
— Carl Sagan

Image
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29211
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by General Zod »

It almost sounds like a recipe for a new dustbowl, except in California.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Stark »

Oh man, if you want misguided and unsustainable development that causes environmental disaster, look no further than the Murray-Darling basin.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28846
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Broomstick »

Erik von Nein wrote:Yeah, that sounds about right. So much farmland in this state is sitting on what really does amount to desert. Although, this is pretty much a precursor story to what awaits mid-west America once they've completely drained their aquifers.
Actually, between the Ohio Valley and the Mississippi River enough rain falls to sustain agriculture without tapping underground aquifers or diverting water. Most farmers in my state and in adjacent Illinois do not have an irrigation system. In fact, many farms need a drainage system because they get more water than they need at some times of the year. Proper crop selection (using more dry-tolerant crops and varieties as you go westward) goes a long way to keeping water needs of agriculture within sustainable limits.

There is no reason you can't grown vegetables in the mid-west, and quite a few fruits grow here as well aside from citrus (citrus won't grow at my latitude, but hey, that's why we have Florida, right?).
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
CaptainChewbacca
Browncoat Wookiee
Posts: 15746
Joined: 2003-05-06 02:36am
Location: Deep beneath Boatmurdered.

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I grew up in Fresno, spent the firt 18 years of my life in the town. Ironically, I just came back today for a 4-day visit, and I was really surprised at the amount of homeless. My parents live in the upper-middle-class part of Fresno, and there's at least two people with signs in every intersection. Its never been that bad.

I wish there was a better solution, because a lot of the farmers (and farm workers) out here DIDN'T know what sort of environmental situation they were getting into when they came out here. The valley has been irrigated farmland for over a century, and folks kinda figured it would stay that way. Between this and the insane rise in gang violence, I'm glad I moved.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
ImageImage
User avatar
Pablo Sanchez
Commissar
Posts: 6998
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:41pm
Location: The Wasteland

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Stark wrote:Oh man, if you want misguided and unsustainable development that causes environmental disaster, look no further than the Murray-Darling basin.
God, I read a National Geographic article about those mad fuckers not long ago. They've been farming rice in a fucking desert for decades, and now that the water's running out their way of life is fucked. I read the article and I wonder how I'm supposed to feel sympathetic to someone who's obviously crazier than a snake's armpit. If they raised some kind of hardy wheat bred to grow in arid conditions, I might say "Aw how sad" but rice? Nat-Geo was saying that a lot of Australian farmers were proposing to make the Murray into a "working river" meaning that it would never even reach the sea, it would be completely tapped by agriculture before it even got near the delta. Yeah, seriously, fuck global warming, fuck the wetlands, fuck deltas, fuck estuaries, and fuck fishermen. Farming cotton and rice, the most water-intensive crops available, in the desert--that's where the future is.
Image
"I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war."
--The Lord Humungus
User avatar
Oni Koneko Damien
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2004-03-10 07:23pm
Location: Yar Yar Hump Hump!
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

I mostly grew up in and around Wisconsin and it has (in my opinion) a highly boring landscape. But one thing I will give it is that it is highly suitable for farming. Regular rain and very steady seasons combined with a largely flat, glaciated terrain makes things highly ideal for farming.

On the other hand I've been to Phoenix, Vegas, LA, and spent a couple years living just outside Reno. I love the look of the land... I can't stand the cities there. The sprawl is not only visually disgusting, but there's also the voice in the back of my head pointing out how fundamentally unsustainable this type of inhabitation is. Then I see people attempting to use desert as farmland and it just compounds the problem. If it weren't going to result in a lot of otherwise innocent people getting thrown into the shit end of life, I'd heartily endorse letting these snowbirds and short-sighted farmers run themselves right into the dust.
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap.
Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow.
My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits.
"Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Darth Wong »

It's funny how people like this will tout "personal responsibility" yet they demand that the state allow them to take water from someone else's neighbourhood to sustain their standard of living.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Stark »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:God, I read a National Geographic article about those mad fuckers not long ago. They've been farming rice in a fucking desert for decades, and now that the water's running out their way of life is fucked. I read the article and I wonder how I'm supposed to feel sympathetic to someone who's obviously crazier than a snake's armpit. If they raised some kind of hardy wheat bred to grow in arid conditions, I might say "Aw how sad" but rice? Nat-Geo was saying that a lot of Australian farmers were proposing to make the Murray into a "working river" meaning that it would never even reach the sea, it would be completely tapped by agriculture before it even got near the delta. Yeah, seriously, fuck global warming, fuck the wetlands, fuck deltas, fuck estuaries, and fuck fishermen. Farming cotton and rice, the most water-intensive crops available, in the desert--that's where the future is.
It may be similar to the OP as people had been saying the system was headed for disaster ages ago; but the farming lobby is just too strong. Even now, that it's an acknowledged environmental disaster, people refuse to change.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Darth Wong »

Farming lobbies are extraordinarily influential. I find it amazing that, with all the history of farm subsidies in both our countries, any farmer could actually have the unmitigated gall to complain about GM's bailout. It was once estimated back in the 1980s that it would have been cheaper to simply give every Alberta farmer a million dollars and tell him to stop complaining, rather than propping up the farm subsidy system.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Lusankya
ChiCom
Posts: 4163
Joined: 2002-07-13 03:04am
Location: 人间天堂
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Lusankya »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:Nat-Geo was saying that a lot of Australian farmers were proposing to make the Murray into a "working river" meaning that it would never even reach the sea, it would be completely tapped by agriculture before it even got near the delta.
Well, the Murray doesn't really have a delta: it just runs into a couple of lakes down near the Coorong. But the only reason that those fuckheads haven't let the river run completely dry is because they're constitutionally obligated to let a certain amount of water reach South Australia. The farmers in Victoria use open canals to irrigate their crops too - which is basically the same technology that they used in ancient Egypt. This is why Eastern farmers in the Murray Darling basin can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

SA isn't really that much better, what with all the permanent plantings and all, but at least the farmers there pioneer the latest water saving technology, so water wastage is minimised. Most water usage in SA actually goes to keeping the Lower Murray Lakes freshwater, though. Now that the water level there is so low that they can't pump from Lake Albert, it's becoming politically feasible to let the ocean in there which would solve that problem more or less. It wouldn't do much about the unnatural flows down the river or all of the other problems associated with irrigation, but it would improve the situation down there considerably.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Alan Bolte »

As I understand it, farming in the desert got started, at least in part, because the much smaller quantity of pests greatly reduces costs. So if you can build a pipeline or even truck in water for less than you save on pest control, then it really isn't entirely insane. You could set up your farm near the source of the water, but I don't see a problem with moving the water from the source to a location that is otherwise better for farming. Obviously this has no bearing on whether the source of water is being drained faster than it's being replenished, or effects on fisheries etc. That sort of thing never seems to be fully reflected in prices. For the most part, I suspect that the issue is not that there are any farmers in the desert, but that there are too many.

Farming in wetter places also destroys fisheries, because fertilizer and other runoff causes algal blooms which deoxygenate the water. Most of you have probably heard of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, for example. I'm not sure how much if any fertilizer runoff you get in desert farming.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Darth Wong »

Alan Bolte wrote:As I understand it, farming in the desert got started, at least in part, because the much smaller quantity of pests greatly reduces costs. So if you can build a pipeline or even truck in water for less than you save on pest control, then it really isn't entirely insane. You could set up your farm near the source of the water, but I don't see a problem with moving the water from the source to a location that is otherwise better for farming. Obviously this has no bearing on whether the source of water is being drained faster than it's being replenished, or effects on fisheries etc. That sort of thing never seems to be fully reflected in prices. For the most part, I suspect that the issue is not that there are any farmers in the desert, but that there are too many.
Both issues are tied together, to some extent. Once you accept the existence of farming with a claim on distant water, those farming operations will tend to expand to the absolute limit permitted by the distant water supplies (unless they are managed by evil socialists who limit growth for evil socialist reasons). If anything should reduce that water supply, or more local users simply stake a claim to it, it is obvious that those operations must shrink. But our society does not handle shrinkage well. Growth, growth growth is our motto.

Maybe they should put these farmers in a room with Lou Dobbs and watch the resulting explosion. Some of the biggest employers of illegal immigrants in the country are farmers :)
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
CJvR
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2926
Joined: 2002-07-11 06:36pm
Location: K.P.E.V. 1

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by CJvR »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:Nat-Geo was saying that a lot of Australian farmers were proposing to make the Murray into a "working river" meaning that it would never even reach the sea, it would be completely tapped by agriculture before it even got near the delta.
The Aussies allready dumped an entire extra river into the Murray system! Reversing the flow of the Snowy River and dumping it into the western rivers instead.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Darth Wong wrote:It's funny how people like this will tout "personal responsibility" yet they demand that the state allow them to take water from someone else's neighbourhood to sustain their standard of living.
Not to get on my usual environmental soap box, but not only someone else's backyard, but some other species back yard. They think that their needs, and their situation is so dire that they are within their rights to wipe out literally dozens of fish and amphibian species, and everything that depends on them. Billions and billions of organisms.

California last I checked produced 25% of the country's food (50% of the veggies, and a bunch of other stuff), and 50% or so of the agrochemicals. Not only are they sucking the entire region (read: the entire south west) dry of water, but their chemical runoff (from water and being carried down wind) eutrophicates the ocean and destroys frog populations by turning them into trannies (Sorry but I couldnt resist the mental imagery).
When a stranger drives to his homestead, nestled neatly in Fresno County, Mr. Allen doesn't dictate directions by distance. He punctuates them with references to things like American flags, the sweet smell of oleander and the point at which a gravel road disintegrates into dirt.
So in other words, they are a bunch of uneducated trogolodytes.
However, as the state struggles to pull itself out of an epic economic mess, proposing a budget settlement this week that taps into local government funds and cuts health care, welfare and education, Fresno is emerging as a new battleground for the compromises created in the crucible of dire straits.
Gee maybe if you voted to raise taxes sometimes, your local government might be able to afford more public assistance...
The fields of wheat, cotton and cantaloupe that sustained his family for three generations are gone. The land is a mess of fallow fields, cracked earth and swirling dust.
Maybe you should have picked a less water intensive set of crops.
It has to do with a seven-centimetre-long, semi-translucent, steel blue fish known as the Delta smelt.

This is not a story about fish. Rather, it is a story about how efforts to save the fish through a court-ordered water shortage have pushed a region already brought to the brink by recession over the edge.
Oh booo hooo! Heaven forbid that in an ethical conflict between the economic needs of a group of farmers with poor decision making skills (They live in a fucking desert, and are growing Cotton and Cantalope... not exactly drought tollerant), and an entire species and the ecosystem in which they live, the humans lose.

It is also a story about how farmers are fighting back, using almost unimaginable stories of economic hardship to argue for a reversal of environmental rules that could see their farms thrive once again, but also endanger wildlife that may never come back.
May never? Once a species is extinct, it cant come back. Ever. Even if they win, they are on borrowed time, because they live in a desert region, and there is only so much water, and an ever-expanding population. It is best they die or be forced to adapt now, rather than later.
Their farms, with water, could provide California some of the spark it so badly needs to fuel a more widespread economic recovery.
Because they are short sighted idiots.
Farmers here have always relied on imported water to make their fields bloom.
And this is a good thing?

Last December, fresh restrictions meant to protect the fish were imposed, effectively shutting down the spigots and starving the Central Valley farmers of water.
Good
While it's true that the downturn is causing widespread pain, the water restrictions came on the heels of a brutal three-year drought, hitting the farmers especially hard and sending parts of Fresno County – a poor place even in the best of times – hurtling toward collapse.
Water restrictions are a long time coming. Not just there, but for the entire southwest. Water needs to be rationed, harshly, for everyone. Phoenix, Las Vegas, everyone. Local governments need to literally start saying "no more land annexations for housing developments, not enough water" and fining people that have grass fucking lawns.
“This is one of the classic, really difficult trade-offs we are faced with in hard times: environmental values versus human suffering,”
Bullshit. It is not a tradeoff at all. It is environmental values and long term survival versus short sighted bullshit.
“It seems like in this economy the government would look for quick fixes instead of throwing money at everything. All they have to do is turn the pumps on. The water is there.”
No. It is not. As for quick fixes... Yeah, I like to call those "half-assed attempts at passing the buck to future generations"
But most farmers here say they don't want a handout. At a town hall meeting in Fresno a few weeks ago, tempers flared as farmers flustered Interior Department officials by shouting: “We don't want welfare, we want water.”
Well you cant fucking have any. Millions of other people, and literally billions of other organisms have a claim to it you self-centered cunt.
Environmental groups still maintain that's not enough, and that any form of diversion is ultimately damaging and unsustainable.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

“You just look around and you think, ‘Why is this happening in America?' ”
Because of foolish and short sighted farming practices, and an economic system that is based upon the idea that two people both trying to cheat eachother will mutually prevent eachother from succeeding.
Farming in wetter places also destroys fisheries, because fertilizer and other runoff causes algal blooms which deoxygenate the water. Most of you have probably heard of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, for example. I'm not sure how much if any fertilizer runoff you get in desert farming.
The runoff is fucking massive. Xeric soils have a salt pan that prevents them from absorbing a whole lot of water quickly, so an irrigation system creates an ass ton of runoff. And yes, the CA coast of eutrophicating. A lot of the chemicals also get picked up by the wind and carried into the mountain ranges to the west, where they once again come down as runoff. That is of course after many of them either direction poison, or act as estrogen mimics in the local ecosystem.

Transexual frogs from Atrazine may seem funny (ok, I chuckle a little), but that is what you get from the sort of farming operations in CA. Granted you get that everywhere.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10319
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

As someone from a country where water costs about 20 times per liter as it does in California, I'll just say:
What, artificially low water prices can damage agriculture based on low water in the middle of a desert? Whoddathunk it?
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by MKSheppard »

Of course, CA could have spent money on atomic fission powered desailization plants -- but the atom is evil.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10319
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

MKSheppard wrote:Of course, CA could have spent money on atomic fission powered desailization plants -- but the atom is evil.
Israel has non nuclear desalinization, but puny amounts of it, we just don't have enough coastline space. (and there isn't enough of a push for it, as it;s bloody expensive, and as mentioned earlier, water is expensive here and kept that way, farmers get subsidies but it's still a few times more expensive than the going rate for water in Las Vegas or California).
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
Darmalus
Jedi Master
Posts: 1131
Joined: 2007-06-16 09:28am
Location: Mountain View, California

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Darmalus »

MKSheppard wrote:Of course, CA could have spent money on atomic fission powered desailization plants -- but the atom is evil.
I fear that such an ideal solution will not be seriously considered until entire tracts of suburbs drop dead from thirst. Which will be far too late, but maybe some sort of revolution will happen first.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Darth Wong »

Drinking water is generally not in short supply. Agriculture uses far more water than human ingestion does. That's why the farmers are whining now; they'll go out of business before suburbs start suffering from thirst.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by ray245 »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Stark wrote:Oh man, if you want misguided and unsustainable development that causes environmental disaster, look no further than the Murray-Darling basin.
God, I read a National Geographic article about those mad fuckers not long ago. They've been farming rice in a fucking desert for decades, and now that the water's running out their way of life is fucked. I read the article and I wonder how I'm supposed to feel sympathetic to someone who's obviously crazier than a snake's armpit. If they raised some kind of hardy wheat bred to grow in arid conditions, I might say "Aw how sad" but rice? Nat-Geo was saying that a lot of Australian farmers were proposing to make the Murray into a "working river" meaning that it would never even reach the sea, it would be completely tapped by agriculture before it even got near the delta. Yeah, seriously, fuck global warming, fuck the wetlands, fuck deltas, fuck estuaries, and fuck fishermen. Farming cotton and rice, the most water-intensive crops available, in the desert--that's where the future is.
The more shocking thing is, they exports almost half of the rice production to the rest of the world, including places like Japan.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Mr Flibble
Psychic Penguin
Posts: 845
Joined: 2002-12-11 01:49am
Location: Wentworth, Australia

Re: California's farmer woes

Post by Mr Flibble »

ray245 wrote:The more shocking thing is, they exports almost half of the rice production to the rest of the world, including places like Japan.
Actually that is incorrect, Australia was only ranked tenth in world rice exporters in 2004, and that has probably decreased since then: Source. Though news reports were talking about the drought in Australia contributing to the spike in rice prices, Australian rice production is not that great compared to the rest of the world, and had only minimal impact on the price of rice.

This doesn't change that it is insanity to be growing rice and cotton in the Murray-Darling Basin. What annoys me the most is the farmers that go on news reports saying "Oh no the drought has ruined our crops, you should support us, or food prices will go up!" as they are kicking over their dead cotton plants. Maybe they could grow something that can be eaten, and is less water intensive, but that isn't as profitable (since they don't pay the economic cost of their water using), so they don't.
Post Reply