South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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From the Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1302469/
Locals rally around the man who cried ‘You lie!'
Sonia Verma
West Columbia, S.C. — From Saturday's Globe and Mail Last updated on Saturday, Sep. 26, 2009 11:52AM EDT

Roxanne Wilson answers the door in a white T-shirt, aqua-blue shorts and a pair of pearl earrings.

This morning she meant to mow the lawn, take in the trash cans and wash down the aluminum siding on her sprawling, ranch-style home. Instead, her thoughts hover on her husband, whom she drove to catch his flight to Washington just a few hours ago.

To much of the country, including former president Jimmy Carter, Congressman Joe Wilson's heckling of Barack Obama during the U.S. President's address to a joint session of Congress betrayed the ugly, possibly even racist side of his Southern heritage.

To his wife, though, Mr. Wilson is just “a typical Southern gentleman.” And here in Lexington County, the heart of South Carolina's overwhelmingly white and Republican second district, he is nothing short of a hero.

The Wilsons have received hundreds of letters of support and even a few personal cheques. At their church, the First Presbyterian, Mrs. Wilson was applauded.

Their home, nestled on a street of towering pines, is hushed, unfussy and full of cluttered charm. The sitting room is scattered with grandchildren's toys and Ali G DVDs. Family photos, including some posed with Republican presidents past, crowd the shelves.

“I know Joe's upset, but for good reason,” explains Mrs. Wilson, who revealed in a campaign video last week that she was shocked at first by her husband's outburst herself. “He thinks we're just going down a road that we are never going to be able to recover from. There's plenty of people who agree.”

Across this county of Baptist churches and barbecue joints, Mr. Wilson's supporters feel galvanized by their unlikely new voice in Washington and their shared opposition to big government. And almost all of them say what Mrs. Wilson does: “Race has nothing to do with this.”

Yes, the Wilsons did fly a Confederate flag on their front lawn before Mr. Wilson was elected to Congress, but “that was about heritage not hate,” Mrs. Wilson says. (The rebel banner still flies in front of the South Carolina state assembly building in Columbia.)

Mr. Obama won a surprising victory against Hillary Rodham Clinton in the South Carolina Democratic primary, but the state is now emerging as a significant hurdle to his policies.

Mr. Wilson's “You lie!” has become a rallying cry not only among a lunatic fringe but in Main Street America; indeed, at least in Lexington County, the line between the two is getting blurry. Joe Wilson's heartland today is a place where everyone from Tea Party Patriots to state-governor hopefuls are uniting over fears of the deepening reach of the federal government.

“The changing of America is what we're talking about. We're fighting for our freedom,“ says Ron Parks, a 53-year-old construction worker who for most of his life stayed far away from politics. Today he is a local organizer in the anti-Obama, cross-country Tea Party movement; he objects to everything from the economic-stimulus package to seatbelt laws.

Meanwhile, Mr. Wilson, previously an undistinguished backbencher, has become someone people here talk about as a future contender for the Oval Office.

“Throughout the course of this nation's history there have been extraordinary events which have lead to extraordinary acts of defiance,” says Larry Grooms, a long-time Republican state senator. “People are beginning to understand that some of the basic rights that most Americans hold dear are quickly being eroded.”

Without men such as Mr. Wilson, he adds, America is destined to become like North Korea.

High passions

In a rundown strip mall next to an indoor shooting range, Mr. Wilson's campaign office has been inundated. It raised $1.5-million in the week after the incident; cheques and letters are still pouring in from across the country.

“Glad to know you're not apologizing again. Stay strong,” reads one letter from Arizona, taped to the office's bathroom door.

“It's just been overwhelming,” says Preston Grisham, Mr. Wilson's 26-year-old campaign manager. “The most common call I get is from people who say Joe said what they have always wanted to say.”

Which is what, exactly? After all, he spoke only two words. “I hear a lot of different things,” Mr. Grisham says hesitantly. “Before this, they really didn't know Joe, so everyone's just taking their own interpretation of what he actually said.”

The passion of the support for Mr. Wilson often seems to run deeper than its logic. In Lexington, residents express suspicions of Mr. Obama and policies such as health-care reform, but they are equally angry at the cost of their insurance.

They believe his economic stimulus package will bankrupt their country, but many of them have lost their jobs, with South Carolina posting double-digit unemployment last summer.

They think Mr. Obama is a liar, but can't explain why.

Two miles down the road from Mr. Wilson's campaign office at the Southern Restaurant, former Vice-President Dick Cheney's picture hangs on the wall alongside the Sept. 12, 2001, front page of the local paper. Here emotions run raw.

“I don't trust [Mr. Obama]. I think a lot of his ideas are too far out in left field,” says Wyman Abstance, celebrating his 57th birthday with two friends from work, over $7.50 plates of steaming fried chicken, mashed potatoes and collard greens.

Which ideas does he mean? “I can't name a specific one,” Mr. Abstance says. “But he loves to spend money too quick, and money isn't always the solution. I think he's going to get this country to a point where we could be taken over by another country.”

His friend Kenny, who also works at the local utilities company, is riled up about the health-care bill, which he says he doesn't understand. “All I know is it's going to cost a bunch of money … one way or the other,” he says before taking a sip of “unsweet” iced tea.

Richard Freedman, sitting across the table, couldn't bring himself to watch the President's speech. “I don't trust him. He lies every time he opens his mouth.”

Mr. Freedman doesn't distrust all Democrats, though. “I guess I don't feel as uncomfortable with Bill or Hillary as I do with President Obama,” he says, though he can't say why.

John Gissendaner, a 67-year-old retired official with the department of interior works, is much clearer on his reasons: “Obama's ruining our country with all these social programs and giveaway programs. I hate him. And it's not 'cause he's black. It's 'cause he's a Muslim socialist.”

That's the kind of statement that outside observers use to dismiss these voters' sentiments as mere cover for cultural prejudice.

But others say the resentment here arises from more nuanced, legitimate and lasting causes.

“South Carolina has a long history of spitting in the face of federal authority,” says Walter Edgar, Director of Southern Studies at the University of South Carolina. “Now people are losing their homes and their jobs and can no longer afford to send their children to the right schools. For them, the federal government is a good whipping boy.”

Prof. Edgar says the rest of the country should heed the undertones in all the noise around Mr. Wilson's words: “This is not a fringe movement,” he says. “It speaks to a growing uncertainty, a growing unease, and Washington should take stock. This is not going to die out.”
I have to agree that it's not a fringe movement, but that doesn't mean it's not a bunch of racists. What some people refuse to accept is that racism is not a fringe movement in the United States. Sure, the really overt style of racism of the KKK is a fringe movement, but the more subtle type of racism that says Obama can't be treated like "one of us" and is an African Muslim in disguise is fairly mainstream in certain parts of the country, whether we like it or not. I'm so sick of people pretending that racism is a thing of the past. It's not, and there's plenty of evidence for that.

These people who are certain that Obama is a liar and is taking the country down a path to ruin but can't even explain why are perfect examples. There's a reason they can't put their finger on what they don't trust about him; it's because their racial prejudice is not an explicitly defined ideology; it is instead a tribal unease at a visibly identifiable outsider.

Frankly, all of the people who insist that virulent anti-Obama hatred has no racist component should be taken to task: do they think that there are no racists in America? If they accept that there are actually quite a lot of racists in America, can they explain why these racists would not have a racially motivated problem with Obama, since it seems like a rather obvious deduction that they should?
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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So IOW, blible-thumping ignoramuses from the american south may be overtly or covertly racist? Well that certaintly came out of left field. All this talk about racism is in a way a good thing for the extreme right in america. It tends to draw attention away from the what the real agenda is. Obama is (or was, I am quite certain the last year has been a sobering one for him) a reform-minded president, the first the US has had since Carter. He is saying and proposeing things that a lot of americans, particularily in the energy and health-care cartels, dont want on the table. And they have a lot of money and people thay can, and have, mobilized to delay any meaningful attempts at reform he is putting forward. That is the real issue. Do some americans have a hate on for Obama simply because he is black?, sure, but really at the end of the day, so what? Their not the president, he is. The real problem Obama faces is the well-orchestrated campaigns to water down and de-rail his reformist agenda, not weither some rednecks from the bible-belt think this Joe Wilson is some sort of hero, or if some americans call Obama nasty names over there fried chicken and grits. For all we know if Hillary had won and was giveing the same speech, Joe probably would have yelled "You lie bitch", or "Get back in the kitchen and make me dinner". The only thing I get out of that article is yet another example of just how dysfunctional american society really is. I think it is far more relevant and instructive to study the the various justifications for the massive resistance they have to actually reforming the broken american system, rather than focusing on there reaction to Him as a person. Even this article cleary shows most of those simpletons cant even articulate what it is they dont like about him...other than they dont like him. :roll: But people like them are very useful to the corporations that actually control america and can always be called upon to be the foot-soldiers anytime anyone of a refromish bent actually makes it to Washington....
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Darth Wong wrote:These people who are certain that Obama is a liar and is taking the country down a path to ruin but can't even explain why are perfect examples. There's a reason they can't put their finger on what they don't trust about him; it's because their racial prejudice is not an explicitly defined ideology; it is instead a tribal unease at a visibly identifiable outsider.
That is probably the most succinct way of putting it, they are the type of people who slightly more PC than those that begin their sentences with "I'm not a racist, but ... "
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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What I think cements it in some ways is that not a one of these people ever said a word about "freedoms" when Dubya and Lord Cheney were scribbling over US laws with a crayon to suit their whims.

I do recall almost exactly this same mindset being in play in the Clinton years. That said, there is no doubt at all that it's far more severe this time around; whether that's just due to greater media exposure than in the 90s or not, I don't know.

In any case, it's very foolish to assume that racism isn't at play at least on some level, and I wouldn't doubt for a minute that it's behind some of the greater intensity of the screeching.

Every time I raise that point elsewhere, it's met with the expected denials and strawman arguments (i.e., "any criticism of Obama is racist"), but it's pretty clear that something is motivating these folks above and beyond the usual lunacy.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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It's really amusing to me every time Americans talk about how xyz thing they don't like is going to allow the US to be taken over by another country. Where does this level of paranoia come from? How many Americans swing between hysterical extremes of 'DO AS I SAY I AM AMERICAN SERVE US' and 'holy shit they gonna kill us'? Isn't this a bit childish?
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Well, partially, it's a recognition that if the US military ever were as small as say, Slovenia, a lot of countries would want revenge on us for being a massive asshole and pushing them around with military threats or even invading or supporting revolutions in their country.

Conservatives have an unreasonable fear that the US will some day be unprotected and all the sudden the reckoning for our misdeeds will arrive. (although they don't see it that way- instead they see an unreasonable hatred of america by foreigners who just don't get it or who are unthankful for what we have done for them). As usual for stupid person (I won't even say conservative, all stupid people think like this) black and white thinking, they don't see a middle ground between 'Mightiest Military On Earth That Spends More Than All Nations Combined' and 'Disband the Army', which is why Clinton's base closure programs drew so much ire. There's other reasons for the military wanking, since it's all interconnected, but that's one of the reasons why ignorant Americans feel threatened by even the slightest reduction to the military budget.

As to how things like welfare could destroy America and make it be taken over by other countries, I have no clue (save perhaps bankrupting the nation causing a reduction in military budgets, but I doubt these people think that hard)- they just assume it's all a package deal the evil democrats want to do.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Except nobody in the world has the capacity to invade the United States. It's even more ludicrous than Sealion. Sure, one day, if America stopped kicking all the dogs in the world and became 'weak' over decades another nation could grow to 'threaten' the US, but it's nothing like the delusional 'if you don't kick the dogs we'll be invaded any second' stuff. Indeed, even all the milwanker obsession with nukes and missiles is WAY more realistic than some nebulous conquest of the US.

As an outsider it amuses me that the perception Americans give off (in the media etc) is either 'we are the evil overlords obey us or die' or 'holy shit we need to threaten more people immediately or we're in danger'.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Yeah. I'm not sure foreigners can really understand how pervasive the nationalism is among the average US citizen, but it's a powerful force.

At the ground level, you really don't see anything to challenge American exceptionalism, so they truly believe that they are the best in the world and everyone envies them.

Thus the need to protect their liberties* from dirty brown people/Europeans/liberals that want to <insert paranoid fantasy>.

* Liberties include such things as the right to have the worst health care in the Western world; warrantless wiretaps and pissing on Federal laws is protecting freedoms.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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South Carolina has always been a boil on this country's ass. Before the Civil War, when Rep. Preston Brooks of S. Carolina beat Senator Charles Sumner nearly to death with his cane, breaking the cane in the process, the voters in his home state not only supported him -they shipped him hundreds of new canes. John Calhoun was such a violent racist fucktard that even fellow violent racist fucktard Andrew Jackson grew fed up with his bullshit and had to threaten to hang him for treason to keep him from starting a civil war in the 1830s.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Duckie wrote:As to how things like welfare could destroy America and make it be taken over by other countries, I have no clue (save perhaps bankrupting the nation causing a reduction in military budgets, but I doubt these people think that hard)- they just assume it's all a package deal the evil democrats want to do.
The idea is that welfare will make an increasingly larger percentage of the population, over time, lazy, soft, and unwilling to work to create wealth when they can just "sponge off the government", and thereby weaken America to the point where it will be ripe for takeover. It follows in this construction that the "rot" would extend right into the military —which would be defunded to pay for the welfare state— and result in an army which won't want to fight or can't get anybody to even sign up.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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They fly a Confederate flag and they are not racists? :shock: :wtf:

Oh right, its their heritage. A heritage of hate (with thanks to Flagg for that line).

What's next? A German flying a Nazi symbol and saying its their heritage.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Elfdart wrote:South Carolina has always been a boil on this country's ass. Before the Civil War, when Rep. Preston Brooks of S. Carolina beat Senator Charles Sumner nearly to death with his cane, breaking the cane in the process, the voters in his home state not only supported him -they shipped him hundreds of new canes. John Calhoun was such a violent racist fucktard that even fellow violent racist fucktard Andrew Jackson grew fed up with his bullshit and had to threaten to hang him for treason to keep him from starting a civil war in the 1830s.
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But yes, do we expect any thing other than this kind of shit from republicans?

And as friendly guy said, yes, the confederate flag may be their "heritage" but heritage born of racism isn't the kind of heritage to celebrate.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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These people who are certain that Obama is a liar and is taking the country down a path to ruin but can't even explain why are perfect examples. There's a reason they can't put their finger on what they don't trust about him; it's because their racial prejudice is not an explicitly defined ideology; it is instead a tribal unease at a visibly identifiable outsider.
Some of it - especially when people insist on calling him Hussein Obama - is undoubtedly racist. When people question whether somebody raised partially in Indonesia could ever "understand" American values, they are sometimes (often?) trying to suggest that Obama has too much sympathy for wrongheaded critiques of American policy, or has adopted some inferior set of values, identifiable as such because they are derived from "somewhere else."

However, a lot of the "instant" dislike for Obama may also stem from two other sources:

1. The "natural" tendency of blind partisans to look at the high-stakes game of presidential politics as a zero-sum match-up in which the end always justifies the means, and the failures of "the other side" are always to be applauded for the very fact that they will hasten the "necessary" changing of the guard;

2. The fact that some of Obama's policies - namely, the proposal for healthcare reform - are culturally "alien" to American voters. Obama is clearly in step with civic humanism as practiced in Canada and Europe; most Americans are not. For the past eight years, they've had a president mostly focused on foreign policy. Now, we've got one who's making domestic issues a top priority.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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2. The fact that some of Obama's policies - namely, the proposal for healthcare reform - are culturally "alien" to American voters. Obama is clearly in step with civic humanism as practiced in Canada and Europe; most Americans are not. For the past eight years, they've had a president mostly focused on foreign policy. Now, we've got one who's making domestic issues a top priority.
The clue meter reads zero.

What was the early part of his presidency? I seem to remember energy deregulation being a major goal. And then there was social security privitization, no child left behind, faith based charities, etc.

As for government option being foreign and culturally alien... yeah- to these people. Of course the government does provide health care to its employees- most notably the military so it really isn't a large a stretch as a progressive income tax.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Yeah, I don't know what the hell Axis is talking about when he says that Bush was laissez-faire about domestic issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, his entire presidential campaign in 2000 was based on his intention to pull away from foreign affairs. Obviously that changed in late 2001, but he never did back off his domestic agenda; if anything he only accelerated it. And what about his $400 billion prescription drug benefit? Why didn't these people scream about that, if they just don't like someone mucking about with the domestic status quo or they oppose the idea of socialized medicine on principle?

Nope, tribal xenophobia seems like a better explanation.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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The clue meter reads zero.

What was the early part of his presidency? I seem to remember energy deregulation being a major goal. And then there was social security privitization, no child left behind, faith based charities, etc.
All of it overshadowed by September 11, 2001 and the subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
As for government option being foreign and culturally alien... yeah- to these people. Of course the government does provide health care to its employees- most notably the military so it really isn't a large a stretch as a progressive income tax.
The idea that health care is a right belongs to a civic philosophy that first arose in Europe after the Second World War, and was shaped significantly by the strong political influence of socialist parties throughout Western Europe.

In the United States, the excellent federal benefits packages are regarded as a perk of the job, not a right.
Yeah, I don't know what the hell Axis is talking about when he says that Bush was laissez-faire about domestic issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, his entire presidential campaign in 2000 was based on his intention to pull away from foreign affairs. Obviously that changed in late 2001, but he never did back off his domestic agenda; if anything he only accelerated it. And what about his $400 billion prescription drug benefit? Why didn't these people scream about that, if they just don't like someone mucking about with the domestic status quo or they oppose the idea of socialized medicine on principle?
It isn't that Bush was laissez-faire; it's that he didn't do anything that was regarded as an absolutely radical departure from the stereotype of the American experience. Most Americans, liberals included, believe in God. Faith-based initiatives may be repugnant to many, but they aren't absolutely out of the common frame of reference. Universal health care is.

The point is that even if Obama were white, his agenda would still be kicking up enormous opposition from conservatives. If we agree on that, then we agree.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Axis Kast wrote:It isn't that Bush was laissez-faire; it's that he didn't do anything that was regarded as an absolutely radical departure from the stereotype of the American experience. Most Americans, liberals included, believe in God. Faith-based initiatives may be repugnant to many, but they aren't absolutely out of the common frame of reference. Universal health care is.
And a $400 billion socialized prescription drug health care benefit is not?
The point is that even if Obama were white, his agenda would still be kicking up enormous opposition from conservatives. If we agree on that, then we agree.
Yes of course, there would be enormous resistance, protests, and angry demonstrations if President Bush were to expect American taxpayers to fork over $400 billion for a socialized prescription drug benefit ... oh wait, that didn't happen. In fact, when eulogizing his presidency in 2008, conservative commentators listed that as one of his accomplishments.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Stark wrote:It's really amusing to me every time Americans talk about how xyz thing they don't like is going to allow the US to be taken over by another country. Where does this level of paranoia come from?
It's probably a case of believing others would do as they would.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Yes of course, there would be enormous resistance, protests, and angry demonstrations if President Bush were to expect American taxpayers to fork over $400 billion for a socialized prescription drug benefit ... oh wait, that didn't happen. In fact, when eulogizing his presidency in 2008, conservative commentators listed that as one of his accomplishments.
Please answer the question. If Obama were white, do you believe that there would not be significant opposition to universal healthcare, as he has described it?
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Axis Kast wrote:
Yes of course, there would be enormous resistance, protests, and angry demonstrations if President Bush were to expect American taxpayers to fork over $400 billion for a socialized prescription drug benefit ... oh wait, that didn't happen. In fact, when eulogizing his presidency in 2008, conservative commentators listed that as one of his accomplishments.
Please answer the question. If Obama were white, do you believe that there would not be significant opposition to universal healthcare, as he has described it?
Of course there would be significant opposition. But I'd bet it would look more like normal political opposition, not the crazy new "carrying rifles to political rallies" and town-hall wild-eyed screaming bullshit.
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Re: South Carolina rallies behind Joe Wilson

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Stark wrote:It's really amusing to me every time Americans talk about how xyz thing they don't like is going to allow the US to be taken over by another country. Where does this level of paranoia come from? How many Americans swing between hysterical extremes of 'DO AS I SAY I AM AMERICAN SERVE US' and 'holy shit they gonna kill us'? Isn't this a bit childish?
A small but excruciatingly loud minority. They're even more irritating in person.
Duckie wrote:As to how things like welfare could destroy America and make it be taken over by other countries, I have no clue (save perhaps bankrupting the nation causing a reduction in military budgets, but I doubt these people think that hard)- they just assume it's all a package deal the evil democrats want to do.
Ah, that's where the threats of corruption and decadence come in! After all, surely purity is strength, and surely nothing is more purely American than laissez-faire fundamentalism, so anything but laissez-faire fundamentalism is impurity in our America-ness, and therefore weakness, and therefore something that can turn us into something other than the glorious exceptional miracle we are!

In highly diluted form this argument is not actually dangerous or stupid, and can even be worthwhile... but you can say the same about botulinum toxin.
Elfdart wrote:South Carolina has always been a boil on this country's ass. Before the Civil War, when Rep. Preston Brooks of S. Carolina beat Senator Charles Sumner nearly to death with his cane, breaking the cane in the process, the voters in his home state not only supported him -they shipped him hundreds of new canes. John Calhoun was such a violent racist fucktard that even fellow violent racist fucktard Andrew Jackson grew fed up with his bullshit and had to threaten to hang him for treason to keep him from starting a civil war in the 1830s.
The thing you have to remember about Andy Jackson is that while he was a violent racist fucktard, he was also an honorable hardass. In a situation where being an honorable hardass brought him into conflict with his own racist fucktardism, he would generally embrace his inner hardass at the expense of his racism.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
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