Why (The HoustoPres Thinks) Battlestar kicks Star Wars' ass!

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Why Battlestar Galactica Kicks Star Wars' Ass (And How To Win The New BSG DVD)
By Pete Vonder Haar in Movies, TelevisionThu., Oct. 29 2009 @ 7:59AM

​If there's anything nerds like better than making anonymous douchebags of themselves on the Internet, it's arguing. From Kirk vs. Picard (Kirk), to The Enterprise vs. a star destroyer (star destroyer), to Tom Baker vs. David Tennant (Christopher Eccleston) -- the list of contentious topics is endless.

And a frequent subject of debate is the supposed status of Star Wars as the preeminent sci-fi franchise. Some have been quick to declare the revamped Battlestar Galactica as the heir apparent. And while the recently completed series was mostly impressive, with a new show (Caprica) on the way and a DVD movie (The Plan) coming out this week, I think a little more evidence is needed before reaching a final decision. To add some fuel to the fire, here are some reasons I believe BSG to be superior to Star Wars.

5. Nuclear Fission Exists in the BSG Universe
If the Empire had nukes, they wouldn't have had wait for the Death Star to clear the planet Yavin so it could bring its superlaser to bear on the rebel base, and Luke wouldn't have had time to blow it up. There also wouldn't have been any need to use the cool-looking but mind-bogglingly slow AT-ATs to attack the rebels on Hoth, allowing the bulk of the rebel fleet to escape. And it would've spared Dack an agonizing death.



4. The Colonists Had a Better Democracy
While it often failed miserably, the remaining humans in BSG lived and breathed their democracy (just ask Tom Zarek). The Old Republic, consisting of a messy combination of democratically elected Senators and dictatorial royalty, was outwitted by one measly Sith Lord.



3. BSG's Women Aren't Just Pretty Princesses
In Battlestar Galactica, the President of the Colonies, the fleet's best pilot, and the person most integral to the success of the Cylons' initial attack on mankind are all women, and many more -- of all races -- occupy positions of importance (Boomer/Athena, "Dee" Dualla). In Star Wars, the only females of any significance are petite Caucasian princesses who spend more time getting rescued than they do fighting.



2. There is no Battlestar Galactica Holiday Special
No one should be allowed to complain about BSG's ending, the fate of Starbuck, or "All Along the Watchtower" until they've watched the Star Wars Holiday Special, without fast-forwarding through the Bea Arthur and Jefferson Starship musical numbers. Whatever their other crimes, BSG creators David Eick and Ronald D. Moore won't find themselves in 30 years wishing they could track down and destroy every copy of The Razor, as Lucas has fanatsized about doing to the Holiday Special.



1. Cylons Occasionally Hit What They're Aiming At
And they're robots. Not only were the colonial refugees in actual danger of dying every time they were attacked, the Cylons' armor actually -- you know -- deflected gunfire. Imperial stormtroopers could't hit water if they fell out of a boat, and their armor failed to even prevent diminutive teddy bear creatures from beating them to death with sticks in Return of the Jedi.

[ray245]

It's funny to see complaining about nerds when the amount of science knowledge he has is almost nil. Then again, Journalist always has a sense of self-importance by pretending that they are so much smarter than people who actually works in the field.

[The Romulan Republic]

Guess I'm bored enough to try to pick this apart. Its not exactly hard.

5. Nuclear Fission Exists in the BSG Universe
If the Empire had nukes, they wouldn't have had wait for the Death Star to clear the planet Yavin so it could bring its superlaser to bear on the rebel base, and Luke wouldn't have had time to blow it up. There also wouldn't have been any need to use the cool-looking but mind-bogglingly slow AT-ATs to attack the rebels on Hoth, allowing the bulk of the rebel fleet to escape. And it would've spared Dack an agonizing death.

So obviously incorrect its hardly worth saying. Nukes can't destroy an Earth-sized planet, and they sure as hell couldn't blow up Yavin if that's what they're suggesting. Not unless they had a truely huge number of them anyway. Nor could they have penetrated the Hoth shield or the defenses the Rebels likely would have had around Yavin.

Granted, one can make the argument that the Death Star was a bad design. But I mean, he's criticizing the guys who have a planet destroying laser for not having nukes? That's like moaning that you don't have a BB gun instead of an assault rifle.

4. The Colonists Had a Better Democracy
While it often failed miserably, the remaining humans in BSG lived and breathed their democracy (just ask Tom Zarek). The Old Republic, consisting of a messy combination of democratically elected Senators and dictatorial royalty, was outwitted by one measly Sith Lord.

I haven't watched enough BSG lately to refute this very well, but it always seemed like a very messed up society. Of course, that's not a fair compairison. The Republic wasn't dealing with the absolutely wretched situation the survivors in BSG were.

Still, it makes me wonder how much trouble Palpatine could have caused if he lived in the BSG universe. If he could run circles around the whole Jedi Order, he could no doubt go a long way their too.

3. BSG's Women Aren't Just Pretty Princesses
In Battlestar Galactica, the President of the Colonies, the fleet's best pilot, and the person most integral to the success of the Cylons' initial attack on mankind are all women, and many more -- of all races -- occupy positions of importance (Boomer/Athena, "Dee" Dualla). In Star Wars, the only females of any significance are petite Caucasian princesses who spend more time getting rescued than they do fighting.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, the article is saying that Star Wars is racist and sexist because the only female characters are white princesses. The problem is that this simply isn't true.

Padme: Queen turned Senator.

Leia: Princess. About the only legitimate example. But she's a lot more than that, since she was also a damn good fighter, a politician, and eventually a Jedi.

Mara Jade: Assassin turned smuggler turned Jedi.

Mon Mothma: Senator turned leader of the Rebel Alliance/New Republic. You don't get much more important politically than that.

Anakin's mother and Luke's Aunt: admittedly not the best examples for refuting claims of sexism, as they are essentially stay at home mothers. Still, having no such characters in a universe would also be unrealistic and sexist.

The female bounty hunter from Episode Two.

Admiral Dala: Political and military leader.

Asoka: Jedi padawan.

And a whole host of others, including a lot of female Jedi.

If you said "all the human females in Star Wars are white," you might be correct. That said, I don't buy that a film is automatically racist because the filmmaker's didn't use an affirmative action quota system for casting decissions.

2. There is no Battlestar Galactica Holiday Special
No one should be allowed to complain about BSG's ending, the fate of Starbuck, or "All Along the Watchtower" until they've watched the Star Wars Holiday Special, without fast-forwarding through the Bea Arthur and Jefferson Starship musical numbers. Whatever their other crimes, BSG creators David Eick and Ronald D. Moore won't find themselves in 30 years wishing they could track down and destroy every copy of The Razor, as Lucas has fanatsized about doing to the Holiday Special.

Every series has bad episodes.

1. Cylons Occasionally Hit What They're Aiming At

So do stormtroopers. And the Republic Clones were a hell of a lot better than the stormtroopers.

That said, the basic CIS battle droids are pathetic. No argument their.

And they're robots. Not only were the colonial refugees in actual danger of dying every time they were attacked, the Cylons' armor actually -- you know -- deflected gunfire. Imperial stormtroopers could't hit water if they fell out of a boat, and their armor failed to even prevent diminutive teddy bear creatures from beating them to death with sticks in Return of the Jedi.

The enemy are probably less of a threat most of the time in Star Wars because its less of a dark and violent series than BSG. That does not equate to inferior. That said, the villains do manage to do quite a bit of damage.

Episode One: the Sith kill Qui-gon, the Trade Federation temporarily occupies Naboo.

Episode Two: Amidala nearly gets killed twice by a bounty hunter (who, like her boss Jango Fett, does remarkably well at evading the pursuing Jedi). Then the Sepparatists kill about two hundred Jedi at the end and Dooku escapes after crippling both Anakin and Obi-wan. Palpatine outmaneuvers everyone.

Episode Three: Coruscant is attacked, Anakin falls to the Dark Side, Padme dies, most of the Jedi die, Anakin is crippled, the Empire is declared. Yeah, the good guys didn't take any losses their.

Episode Four: the Empire takes Leia's ship at the start and later tortures Leia, Luke's family is butchered (along with a bunch of innocent Jawas) Obi-wan dies, Tarkin blows up Alderan, Ties kill a bunch of Rebel pilots.

Episode Five: the Empire overruns Hoth and kills a bunch of Rebels. Han and Leia are chased down and Han is tortured and put in carbonite. Luke loses his hand and gets his ass kicked by Vader.

Episode Six: Palpatine pulls off an excellent trap and the Empire kills a bunch of Rebels and Ewoks. Luke nearly turns to the Dark Side, then is nearly killed when he refuses. The Empire loses only due to a mix of good Rebel tactics, bad luck, Vader switching sides, and admittedly Imperial stupidity.

[Samuel]

4. The Colonists Had a Better Democracy
While it often failed miserably, the remaining humans in BSG lived and breathed their democracy (just ask Tom Zarek). The Old Republic, consisting of a messy combination of democratically elected Senators and dictatorial royalty, was outwitted by one measly Sith Lord.

Wasn't most of the series authoritarian presidential rule that was broken when she was voted out of office (although there was an attempt to rig the election that almost worked)? And then the new president was horribly incompetant?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Palpatine would have been a better choice (although that would be amusing), but the democracy in the show... what happened to the congress? I didn't see any of the show after the first season.

[Darksider]

A lot of this seems like they're taking thematic shots at SW rather than them being specific realism complaints.
They're basically saying that Neo-BSG is more grounded in reality, that SW is childish, ETC. (Why they're looking for realism in SCIENCE FICTION, i'll never know)
And they're mostly right. Neo-BSG has a far less innocent atmosphere than Star Wars does, an honestly I think that its detrimental to the series.

Say all you want about the prequels, but they were epic with a capital E. Is there anything in Neo-BSG that can match the epic space battle above Coruscant and the dynamic duo's heroic antics for sheer fun factor?

Also, the characters in SW are heroes. They aren't portrayed as realistically as the ones in Neo-BSG, but they're far more entertaining. The characters in SW are people you can look up to, who do things that are genuinely heroic. Can anyone in neo-bsg claim that? Honestly the only person in neo-bsg who comes close to being a genuine hero in the classical sense is Lee. The rest are a bunch of vice-ridden, mal-adjusted morons.

[Deathstalker]

While Lucas used many elements, it is still his story from whole cloth. He didn't have to "re-imagine" anything.

[JLTucker]

Also, the characters in SW are heroes. They aren't portrayed as realistically as the ones in Neo-BSG, but they're far more entertaining. The characters in SW are people you can look up to, who do things that are genuinely heroic. Can anyone in neo-bsg claim that? Honestly the only person in neo-bsg who comes close to being a genuine hero in the classical sense is Lee. The rest are a bunch of vice-ridden, mal-adjusted morons.

What about Helo? He gave up his seat on the raptor to Gaius Baltar, he aided in the rescue on New Caprica, he stopped the genocide of the Cylons, and he told his superiors about the murderous doctor. Those are heroic things in my book.

[Sarevok]

On the other hand Helo did dumbass things like destroy the bio weapon which could have ended the cylon threat once and for all.

[Anguirus]

On the other hand Helo did dumbass things like destroy the bio weapon which could have ended the cylon threat once and for all.

Considering what they knew about the Cylons at that point, this was arguably a heroic act as well.

[Darth Wong]

5. Nuclear Fission Exists in the BSG Universe
If the Empire had nukes, they wouldn't have had wait for the Death Star to clear the planet Yavin so it could bring its superlaser to bear on the rebel base, and Luke wouldn't have had time to blow it up. There also wouldn't have been any need to use the cool-looking but mind-bogglingly slow AT-ATs to attack the rebels on Hoth, allowing the bulk of the rebel fleet to escape. And it would've spared Dack an agonizing death.

This whole bit is just retarded. A nuke doesn't begin to compare to the other weapons they're slinging around, never mind the Death Star.

4. The Colonists Had a Better Democracy
While it often failed miserably, the remaining humans in BSG lived and breathed their democracy (just ask Tom Zarek). The Old Republic, consisting of a messy combination of democratically elected Senators and dictatorial royalty, was outwitted by one measly Sith Lord.

Yeah, no realistic country would ever have a dysfunctional democracy with high levels of voter apathy, chronic corruption, vulnerable to a charismatic ideologue ... oh, wait a minute.

3. BSG's Women Aren't Just Pretty Princesses
In Battlestar Galactica, the President of the Colonies, the fleet's best pilot, and the person most integral to the success of the Cylons' initial attack on mankind are all women, and many more -- of all races -- occupy positions of importance (Boomer/Athena, "Dee" Dualla). In Star Wars, the only females of any significance are petite Caucasian princesses who spend more time getting rescued than they do fighting.

OK, so they exchanged a real-life cliche for a Hollywood one.

2. There is no Battlestar Galactica Holiday Special
No one should be allowed to complain about BSG's ending, the fate of Starbuck, or "All Along the Watchtower" until they've watched the Star Wars Holiday Special, without fast-forwarding through the Bea Arthur and Jefferson Starship musical numbers. Whatever their other crimes, BSG creators David Eick and Ronald D. Moore won't find themselves in 30 years wishing they could track down and destroy every copy of The Razor, as Lucas has fanatsized about doing to the Holiday Special.

No, but a lot of fans might eventually realize that the show takes itself waaaay too seriously. I tried watching a few episodes and I just couldn't tolerate it. Oooh, topical! We'll do an episode that mirrors the Iraq War occupation! We're so SERIOUS!!! And RELEVANT!!! You can discuss our sophisticated and relevant themes in your local community college's Self-Importance 101 classes!

1. Cylons Occasionally Hit What They're Aiming At
And they're robots. Not only were the colonial refugees in actual danger of dying every time they were attacked, the Cylons' armor actually -- you know -- deflected gunfire. Imperial stormtroopers could't hit water if they fell out of a boat, and their armor failed to even prevent diminutive teddy bear creatures from beating them to death with sticks in Return of the Jedi.

Imperial stormtroopers could kill targets, just not when those targets happened to be main characters. That's a Hollywood cliche, but it's hardly unusual to Star Wars. As for the armour and teddy bears, I take it these people honestly don't know what happens if you club a guy wearing a modern helmet. The helmet stops bullets; it doesn't magically soften hammer-blows.

[Sarevok]

On the other hand Helo did dumbass things like destroy the bio weapon which could have ended the cylon threat once and for all.

Considering what they knew about the Cylons at that point, this was arguably a heroic act as well.

Hardly. Humanity was reduced to a ragtag fleet of ships. Every city on every planet was destroyed. Billions were dead. There is nothing left to stop the cylon armada.

Helo destroyed the one last chance to miraculously win the war.

[tezunegari]

Helo destroyed the one last chance to miraculously win the war.

Didn't he just destroy their only way of distribution by killing the infected comatose Cylons from the deactivated Basestar?
If I remember correctly the bioweapon was an old colonial virus that was found on a nav beacon left behind by the thirteenth tribe on their way to cylonEarth.

So, theoretically, they might still have had the virus... which would make this another round of catch-the-idiot-ball.

[Sarevok]

The old thirteenth were cylons themselves. Why would cylons be affected by the virus ? Thats an even bigger dumb moment.

[Anguirus]

On the other hand Helo did dumbass things like destroy the bio weapon which could have ended the cylon threat once and for all.

Considering what they knew about the Cylons at that point, this was arguably a heroic act as well.

Hardly. Humanity was reduced to a ragtag fleet of ships. Every city on every planet was destroyed. Billions were dead. There is nothing left to stop the cylon armada.

Helo destroyed the one last chance to miraculously win the war.

Hence why I said "arguably." The Cylons committed the ultimate crime, and nearly all of them were culpable in some way. However, Helo was married to one of them, and knew that they were human-like and capable of learning and becoming something more than they once were. If you think of the death of a Cylon as just as bad as the death of a human, than the virus would have been a morally wrong decision even if it was known that the Cylons would one day wipe out the rest of humanity.

It's not the best episode of BSG, but I think it showcases a valid moral dilemma that it is a disservice to trivialize.

The old thirteenth were cylons themselves. Why would cylons be affected by the virus ? Thats an even bigger dumb moment.

Did you not catch that the Final Five were immune? It's not like they necessarily copied their immune systems directly over to the other seven.

[Darksider]

I think the argument over helo's actions showcases why people seem to like neo-bsg more than the prequels nowadays. People don't want to see classical heroes performing larger than life heroics anymore. Obi-Wan and Anakin's antics aboard the Invisible Hand were the stuff of legends and myth. They stormed the lair of the evil sith lord, and rescued the chancellor from the monsterous droid general. There wasn't any angsting about weather or not the separatists had the right to secede, or any question of battle droids being sentient. Nowadays people seem to want to see gritty anti-heroes. Helo acted on his principles, and within an hour there were twenty threads here and on SB.com calling him a sackless wimp. People nowadays seem to like "gritty" characters more than genuine heroes.

[Covenant]

I think the argument over helo's actions showcases why people seem to like neo-bsg more than the prequels nowadays. People don't want to see classical heroes performing larger than life heroics anymore. Obi-Wan and Anakin's antics aboard the Invisible Hand were the stuff of legends and myth. They stormed the lair of the evil sith lord, and rescued the chancellor from the monsterous droid general. There wasn't any angsting about weather or not the separatists had the right to secede, or any question of battle droids being sentient. Nowadays people seem to want to see gritty anti-heroes. Helo acted on his principles, and within an hour there were twenty threads here and on SB.com calling him a sackless wimp. People nowadays seem to like "gritty" characters more than genuine heroes.

Part of it is toughness, but part of it is the hero acting like he's in a real world that has consequences. People want tough heroes who aren't going to be worried about "Oh no those poor genocidal robots, maybe one or two of them feel bad" before they push the "I Win" button. An emotional reaction like "but that makes us as bad as they are" seems out of place when fighting for humanity's survival, so it's an eye-roll moment. There's nothing ungritty about storming the Invisible Hand. Anakin was a hell of a lot grittier and darker than Helo anyway. He cut that dude's head off! Not cool!

Afterall, the rebels didn't try to disable the Death Star, or take the gun offline, or anything--they blew that fucker up. And then the Empire built a new one, put it in orbit of a fuzzy teddybear land, and the rebels blew it the fuck up again. You can still like kitties (Hellboy) or be a comedic character (Deadpool) but don't always give the badguy the benefit of the doubt and don't always make it look too easy. Star Wars doesn't seem gritty because, usually, there's no real consequences. Boba Fett falls in the pit. Oh well! Dead Star blows up. Too bad! Your adoptive parents are burned alive by Stormtroopers. Oh well, we'll forget about them in an hour! A 'gritty' show just spends more time in Empire Strikes Back mode--and honestly, most people think that's the strongest of the OT in part because of that.

If you're a "genuine hero" and you're charged with keeping 5000 people alive, you should not jeopardize all of them because it makes you have to answer some deep ethical questions. If you have an equally good alternative, or nearly good one, fine--but you don't just tell people unilaterally that they'll need to find a different way. People don't mind larger-than-life heroics, but they don't want the hero to act like it's all roses and sunshine down here for the rest of us, and tell us to just suck it up as he flies off into the sunset. That's more of the reason they banged on Helo about it--it didn't fit things. Genuine heroes don't need to be heartless justice-machines that stomp from one victory to the next. There's nothing heroic about that--that's just being powerful.

[Darth Wong]

In short, modern film audiences enjoy wallowing in emotion.

[Covenant]

In short, modern film audiences enjoy wallowing in emotion.

As opposed to ancient audiences that did not?

[Darth Wong]

In short, modern film audiences enjoy wallowing in emotion.

As opposed to ancient audiences that did not?

The 1980s is "ancient" now? No, there was a time when people went to the movies for escapism. It was hardly an "ancient" era.

[Transbot9]

Oversimplification of a wide demographic, in both eras.

[charlemagne]

I know that it's pure nerdrage, but I really hate it when people think they're talking oh so insightfully about stuff they have no clue about. Comparing nBSG to SW is so apples and oranges it isn't even funny. 40k survivors from 12 planets vs. galaxy-spanning 20k+ year old civilization? Come on.

Besides that, the author is really an idiot for thinking that nBSG-nukes would do a better job at destroying planets than a planet-destroying superlaser. Did he even watch the show? There was a lively resistance on Caprica after the nuking which is exactly what wouldn't have happened if the Cylons had been able to actually blow up the planet.

Of course you can compare topic and tone of the two series, but there's no "competition" there. Don't like grimdark gritty, fine, there's no arguments to be made there as to why it would be "better" than colorful sci-fi-fantasy like SW, and vice versa. You can write all about why you like one better than the other, just don't confuse matters of taste with quality.

[ray245]

I know that it's pure nerdrage, but I really hate it when people think they're talking oh so insightfully about stuff they have no clue about. Comparing nBSG to SW is so apples and oranges it isn't even funny. 40k survivors from 12 planets vs. galaxy-spanning 20k+ year old civilization? Come on.

It's more funny to see him trying act like he isn not a nerd because only nerds would want to compare different science fiction universe , when he doing just that in his article.

[Elfdart]

2. There is no Battlestar Galactica Holiday Special
No one should be allowed to complain about BSG's ending, the fate of Starbuck, or "All Along the Watchtower" until they've watched the Star Wars Holiday Special, without fast-forwarding through the Bea Arthur and Jefferson Starship musical numbers. Whatever their other crimes, BSG creators David Eick and Ronald D. Moore won't find themselves in 30 years wishing they could track down and destroy every copy of The Razor, as Lucas has fanatsized about doing to the Holiday Special.

You wanna talk shitty TV? I'd much rather watch the Holiday Special than the original Battlestar Galactica. As a kid I was ready for almost anything with special effects, but that show sucked harder than Lauren Phoenix in a bukkake video. The final straw for me was the episode when Apollo had to fight a Cylon in an Old West duel like in High Noon. Young Elfdart left the room in the middle of the show when he could no longer endure the stupidity, or seeing a movie he loved crapped on by Glen Larson. I was thrilled to read about how James Garner punched Larson out. But that is another story...

[Dooey Jo]

Yes, Star Wars has the Holiday Special, but at least the whole series isn't Livejournal in space (with shoddy camera work to emulate shoddy spelling).

Also, isn't it true that fission bombs are theoretically incapable of delivering more than a MT? If so, that's a really retarded complaint; "why wait twenty minutes to blow up a planet, when you can throw firecrackers at it instead!"

[bz249]

Yes, Star Wars has the Holiday Special, but at least the whole series isn't Livejournal in space (with shoddy camera work to emulate shoddy spelling).

Also, isn't it true that fission bombs are theoretically incapable of delivering more than a MT? If so, that's a really retarded complaint; "why wait twenty minutes to blow up a planet, when you can throw firecrackers at it instead!"

No one can increase the output of a fission bomb, if he can produce sufficiently high neutron flux

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_fission