Iran Conducts Air Defense War Games

[R.O.A]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_ ... _war_games

TEHRAN, Iran – Iran on Sunday began large-scale air defense war games aimed at protecting its nuclear facilities from attack, state TV reported, as an air force commander boasted the country could deter any military strike by Israel.

It said the five-day drill will cover an area a third of the size of Iran and spread across the central, western and southern parts of the country.

Gen. Ahmad Mighani, head of an air force unit in charge of responding to threats to Iran's air space, said Saturday the war games would cover regions where Iran's nuclear facilities are located.

The drill involves Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard, the paramilitary Basij forces affiliated with the Guard as well as army units.

The United States and its European allies accuse Iran of embarking on a nuclear weapons program. Iran denies the charge and insists the program is only for peaceful purposes.

Israel has not ruled out military action to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.

The commander of the Guard's air force, Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, meanwhile sought on Sunday to play down the significance of Israel's threats against his country, saying they amounted to psychological warfare.

"We are sure they are not able to do anything against us since they cannot predict our reaction," Hajizadeh was quoted as saying by the Guard's official Web site, Sephahnews.

"If their fighter planes could escape from Iran's air defense system, their bases will be hit by our devastating surface-to-surface missiles before they land," he said.

Also on Sunday, Iran's defense minister, Gen. Ahmad Vahidi, said Iran planned to pursue designing and producing its own air defense missiles, according to the official IRNA news agency.

His comments were apparently in response to the delay in the delivery from Russia of S-300 anti-aircraft missiles, meant to be a key component of Iran's air defense.

Iran complains that the delay is apparently the result of Israeli and U.S. pressure.

Israel and the United States have opposed the missile deal out of fear Iran could use the system to significantly boost air defenses at its nuclear sites — including its main uranium enrichment plant at Natanz.

Commenting on this week's war games, a senior Obama administration official urged Iran to engage with the international community.

"We would prefer that the Iranian regime follow through on their offer to engage," said Ellen Tauscher, the U.S. undersecretary of state for arms control and international security.

"It is more important for them to build confidence with the international community," she said at a news conference Sunday at the Halifax International Security Forum in Nova Scotia.

___

Associated Press Writer Rob Gillies contributed to this report from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was under the impression that Iran's air defense was relatively sub par. Will buying and setting up large quantities of Russian anti-air weaponry be good enough to counter the Israeli air force?

[Ryan Thunder]

If we keep sitting on our asses and watching them build their weapons, yeah, it probably will be enough to keep us out of there short of nuking the place, if it isn't enough already.

[Ma Deuce]

I was under the impression that Iran's air defense was relatively sub par. Will buying and setting up large quantities of Russian anti-air weaponry be good enough to counter the Israeli air force?

Yes, because the Israelis don't really have the means to strike Iran's nuclear facilities effectively, even discounting any Iranian defenses. Not only do they lack the ordinance to take out some of those superbunkers (unless they're willing to use nukes), but they'd have to station a refueling plane fairly near Iran unless they wanted the mission to be a one-way trip. Hitting Iran's facilities would be nothing like Operation Opera in '81, it be about an order of magnitude more difficult, considering that they'd have to hit multiple targets, each of which are much harder to crack than the Al Tuwaitha dome and almost twice as far away to boot (they'd have to fly even longer than that considering the US will probably not let them cross Iraqi airspace). Hell, I doubt even Opera would have been successful if it weren't for the fact that the Iran-Iraq war was in full swing at the time and most of Iraq's air defense radars were probably facing east toward Iran.

[Swindle1984]

Syria and Iran bought identical air defense systems from Russia. The Israelis proceeded to fly into Syrian airspace, bomb their nuclear research facility, and fly back without the Syrians shooting at them or scrambling fighters in time to stop them.

Iran has been trying to buy the S-300 system from Russia, but the Russians are taking their time on delivering. In keeping with Iran's record of stupidity and bogus military claims, they've threaten to build an identical copy of the S-300 if the Russians don't hurry up and give them theirs.

Yeah, brilliant.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Syria and Iran bought identical air defense systems from Russia. The Israelis proceeded to fly into Syrian airspace, bomb their nuclear research facility, and fly back without the Syrians shooting at them or scrambling fighters in time to stop them.

Iran has been trying to buy the S-300 system from Russia, but the Russians are taking their time on delivering. In keeping with Iran's record of stupidity and bogus military claims, they've threaten to build an identical copy of the S-300 if the Russians don't hurry up and give them theirs.

Yeah, brilliant.

First of all, it was also probably a biowarfare facility going by the international press .
Secondly, Syria is much closer than Iran, and has far less of an infrastructure set up. Iran has a large network of multiple hardened underground facilities across the country and the distances are larger.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, they could one-way 'em and then eject over Iraq, where the US would ultimately end up returning the pilots to Israel unharmed, but that would entail a loss of the aircraft.

[Lonestar]

Well, they could one-way 'em and then eject over Iraq, where the US would ultimately end up returning the pilots to Israel unharmed, but that would entail a loss of the aircraft.

Unless the locals find them first, find out the airstrike just happened, and FUCKING KILL THEM.

[Shroom Man 777]

Then they would be anti-Semites, won't they?

Also, won't the Israeli fighters have to violate other airspace to reach Iran? Other countries might not like that.

[Feil]

Then they would be anti-Semites, won't they?

Darn those antisemitic Arabs. They're almost as bad as the white-supremacist blacks and the homophobic gays!

[Sarevok]

The Syriands had some sophisticated SAM systems during the recent air attack by Israel. How did Israeli air force get in, blow stuff up and get out without a scratch even ? Syrian incompetence or does Russian hardware suck ?

[thejester]

Hell, I doubt even Opera would have been successful if it weren't for the fact that the Iran-Iraq war was in full swing at the time and most of Iraq's air defense radars were probably facing east toward Iran.

The Iraqi air defence system had been badly degraded by the Iranians; IIRC the appearance of Iranian F-4s over Baghdad around lunchtime was a daily occurrence. The Iraqi Air Force had basically stopped fighting, and had either fled to Jordan or to airfields on the far side of the country.

[Chris OFarrell]

You could give the average Arab military a wing of F-22s and they would still get their ass handed to them by a bunch of early block F-16s.

Note, that the Iranians OTOH are Persians, and frankly, their Air Force and air defenses, combined with the strategic depth from the IDF airfields, means they have a hell of a lot less to fear then Syria.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Syriands had some sophisticated SAM systems during the recent air attack by Israel. How did Israeli air force get in, blow stuff up and get out without a scratch even ? Syrian incompetence or does Russian hardware suck ?

Unknown for sure, but a few things factor into it heavily. The first is simply that as the Syrian nuclear site was covert and located in the western part of the country it was not directly defended by anything in terms of SAMs or guns, and air defense coverage is sketchy at best overall in that area. Secondly the IAF was able to attack out of Turkish airspace, allowing it to completely circumvent the main area of Syrian air defenses along the boarder and the ocean.

Additionally it has been rumored that the Israeli used an electronic attack system to feed false data into Syrian radar and computer systems. That such systems do exist in at least the USAF is pretty well know, but if they got used in this instance is an open question. If such systems are going to work, they would surely work well against the generally old (as in 1960s vintage) Syrian air defenses. Syria has a small pile of modern stuff, but it would have all been in the west of the country not the east.

Personally I tend to think the Israelis succeeded simply because they had surprise, a small force and a huge area of empty desert to fly over low to an undefended target.

You could give the average Arab military a wing of F-22s and they would still get their ass handed to them by a bunch of early block F-16s.

Note, that the Iranians OTOH are Persians, and frankly, their Air Force and air defenses, combined with the strategic depth from the IDF airfields, means they have a hell of a lot less to fear then Syria.

Actually Iran has no integrated air defence system at all. Syria does, and has much denser levels of SAM sites over its vital areas and probably more operational jet fighters. Iraqi planes flew over Teheran as much as Bagdad was ever bombed, indeed latter in the war the Iranians were largely forced onto the defensive.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Also, won't the Israeli fighters have to violate other airspace to reach Iran? Other countries might not like that.

The most significant issue with this is that they would need to transit US-controlled Iraqi airspace to attack a target in Iran, which would entail more or less direct permission from the USA for the strike. In which case the USA might as well conduct the strike themselves for all the difference it would make.

Unless the locals find them first, find out the airstrike just happened, and FUCKING KILL THEM.

Or the US army finds them first and then holds them while the Iraqis demand that they be turned over because they were illegally trespassing on Iraqi territory, so that there's a big shit taken on half the progress we've made since the surge.

[Ace Pace]

The Syriands had some sophisticated SAM systems during the recent air attack by Israel. How did Israeli air force get in, blow stuff up and get out without a scratch even ? Syrian incompetence or does Russian hardware suck ?

According to newspapers, the IAF used tankers in conjunction with using Turkish airspace (without permissions) in order to go through north Syria. North Syria is a rather "safe" zone from the Syrian air defense Point of view being rather far away from Israel, so this, combined with alleged "trickery" of the Syrian radars led to the IAF having a clear shot at the reactor (or biowarfare plant, whatever the external theory of the week is).

[Juubi Karakuchi]

To elaborate, Syria's air defences are concentrated in two zones, one covering the Mediterranean coast, the other along the Golan heights. The latter covers the area in which any future Israel vs Syria combat will primarily take place, including Damascus and several major missile bases. The Israelis penetrated via the disputed Hatay/Iskanderoun region, allowing them to bypass the coastal zone while spending minimal time in Turkish airspace.

Syria has some decent air-defence equipment, but all of it is low-altitude. If Syria were to acquire the S-300 (which may already have happened) this represent a significant change. Unfortunately it is difficult to say how much of a change without knowing which version Syria has (or intends to get), since their capabilities vary considerably. Syria's air force has never been able to match that of Israel, so this is the sort of upgrade they desperately need for credible air defence (at least until they can sort their air force out). It's that or be forever at the mercy of the IDF.

It's not such a problem for Iran. Sheer distance and the political complications of having to fly over other countries both count in Iran's favour. The former is particularly important, since it will serve to limit the size of the Israeli attacking force. Iran's Tomcats and Mig29s might pose a threat, if the pilots are good enough, though that is a very big might. Their ground-based capability is mostly limited to point-defence, though what they have is decent. Iran also has a deterrent in the form of its missiles.

Ultimately, whether or not an attack takes place will depend on just how spooked Israel is. Distance, diplomacy, and the dispersal of targets would make this very difficult, but Israel may still attempt it out of fear or hubris.