Google won't censor in China anymore

[sketerpot]

Google has decided that they're not going to cooperate with the Chinese government's demands that they censor their Chinese search results, and they're willing to pull out of China completely if it comes to that. Link.

Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.

First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.

Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.

Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.

We have already used information gained from this attack to make infrastructure and architectural improvements that enhance security for Google and for our users. In terms of individual users, we would advise people to deploy reputable anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on their computers, to install patches for their operating systems and to update their web browsers. Always be cautious when clicking on links appearing in instant messages and emails, or when asked to share personal information like passwords online. You can read more here about our cyber-security recommendations. People wanting to learn more about these kinds of attacks can read this U.S. government report (PDF), Nart Villeneuve's blog and this presentation on the GhostNet spying incident.

We have taken the unusual step of sharing information about these attacks with a broad audience not just because of the security and human rights implications of what we have unearthed, but also because this information goes to the heart of a much bigger global debate about freedom of speech. In the last two decades, China's economic reform programs and its citizens' entrepreneurial flair have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. Indeed, this great nation is at the heart of much economic progress and development in the world today.

We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China, including new laws and other restrictions on our services. If we determine that we are unable to achieve the objectives outlined we will not hesitate to reconsider our approach to China."

These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.

The decision to review our business operations in China has been incredibly hard, and we know that it will have potentially far-reaching consequences. We want to make clear that this move was driven by our executives in the United States, without the knowledge or involvement of our employees in China who have worked incredibly hard to make Google.cn the success it is today. We are committed to working responsibly to resolve the very difficult issues raised.

Well, I'm impressed.

[ray245]

Although I fail to see how much difference it would make if Google pull out from China, given that there are many other search engines being used by the Chinese, namely Alibaba.

[Stuart Mackey]

Although I fail to see how much difference it would make if Google pull out from China, given that there are many other search engines being used by the Chinese, namely Alibaba.

I don't think thats the point, morals ethics etc etc and not wishing to be associated with a potential threat to the US?

[Anguirus]

Hmm. Well I didn't see that coming. Good for them.

[ray245]

Although I fail to see how much difference it would make if Google pull out from China, given that there are many other search engines being used by the Chinese, namely Alibaba.

I don't think thats the point, morals ethics etc etc and not wishing to be associated with a potential threat to the US?

I know. My point was to point out that the actual impact such an action would have on China would be rather limited, if not even more counter-productive.

The world second largest internet community would now rely on Chinese companies for their Internet service, and perhaps be even more exposed to the CCP's attempts to monitor the Internet. At the least Google is attempting to offer some form of securities for their user, something that Chinese companies might not be willingly to do.

[Ma Deuce]

Although I fail to see how much difference it would make if Google pull out from China, given that there are many other search engines being used by the Chinese, namely Alibaba.

It might provide a boost to their image in the West though, where virtually all their business comes from. Not only do they have more competition than ever before, but their image has started to fray around the edges lately for several reasons, including; originally accepting the Chinese filters, and blotting out rich peoples' palatial mansions on their maps, among other things. They will claim that pulling out of China proves that their slogan is really true after all. The irony is, (if I'm seeing things right) Google's pulling out of China would be a pure business move that has nothing to with ethics, except the perception therof.

Naturally, I was never surprised when Google proved time and again that their only real concern what their bottom line (and am amused by anyone who ever thought otherwise), but on the other hand, since Google has always sold itself as an "ethical" company, they shouldn't be surprised if they lose business by not living up to their self-professed image.

[K. A. Pital]

There can be two outcomes:
1) China forces Google out of China, and then Baidu wins in the Google-Baidu fight.
2) China doesn't give a crap and continues to use Google regardless.

Both are insignificant events in and of themselves, anyhow.

[Lusankya]

1) China forces Google out of China, and then Baidu wins in the Google-Baidu fight.

That'll probably happen anyway. I find Baidu much more convenient when I'm looking for Chinese content. Sure, I use Google as my primary browser, but that's only because it's easier to use with Chrome, and one of the top ten searches usually links to zhidao.baidu.com anyway.

[sketerpot]

1) China forces Google out of China, and then Baidu wins in the Google-Baidu fight.

That'll probably happen anyway. I find Baidu much more convenient when I'm looking for Chinese content. Sure, I use Google as my primary browser, but that's only because it's easier to use with Chrome, and one of the top ten searches usually links to zhidao.baidu.com anyway.

Judging by how Google has been losing market share to Baidu for the past few years, it looks like most of China agrees with you.

[Ypoknons]

That'll probably happen anyway. I find Baidu much more convenient when I'm looking for Chinese content. Sure, I use Google as my primary browser, but that's only because it's easier to use with Chrome, and one of the top ten searches usually links to zhidao.baidu.com anyway.

Or here in Hong Kong, I always use Yahoo.com.hk for local searches. Seems like Google has some problems with localization?

[Lusankya]

It could possibly be a language thing - they might have difficulty changing the search algorithm to look for Chinese words as opposed to Chinese characters. Search strings in Chinese often seem to get broken up into the most nonsensical units when I use Google.

[Ypoknons]

It could possibly be a language thing - they might have difficulty changing the search algorithm to look for Chinese words as opposed to Chinese characters. Search strings in Chinese often seem to get broken up into the most nonsensical units when I use Google.

Probably not the whole problem. I get better results searching Yahoo HK in English as well.

[Lusankya]

Fair enough. I don't think I've ever used Baidu in English, so I wouldn't know. If I can't find what I'm looking for in English on Google, I just assume I'm using the wrong Internets and go straight to Baidu and Chinese.

Back on censorship, though, I'm not sure how much this will affect the average consumer in China. The only blocked site that I ever find myself really wanting to use is Facebook, and that's mainly because in a good month, about 90% of my contact with my mother is through status updates. Other than that, the biggest issue is that sometimes random image hosts are blocked for seemingly no apparent reason, which is a nuisance. I suppose Youtube would be nice, but I have Tudou for pretty much anything there. People without much English (most people) would have even less reason to leave the Chinese internet.

It's probably a decent publicity move for Google, really: look good for their primary users, and get out of a market that isn't really paying the dividends hoped for.

I just hope that this doesn't affect access to Gmail, because that will be inconvenient.

[Losonti Tokash]

Google currently has about 30% market share in China from what I remember, so even assuming Baidu eats up most of that it will still help out smaller ones like Sohu or Netease.

Plus, 30% is hardly an insignificant amount. You guys make it sound like they're losing money hand over fist when they're giving up a pretty sizable chunk here.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The trouble in China is that for every blocked site, there's a Chinese equivalent for sure. So if Google buggers out, they probably won't be able to recoup the lost share for a good while if they so return back.

[Ypoknons]

I totally lost my on-topic reply, sorry. I don't think Google is a big force for getting around censorship in China as it is - proxies, discussion boards, foreign travel and learning a foreign language are (censorship is the heaviest in Chinese naturally, of PRC, HK and Taiwanese sources; they don't pay nearly as much attention elsewhere). The impression I get is that finding things out is possible if you're dedicated, but rather doing something about it that's hard, with at serious repercussions to your career and jail being major deterrents.

[Edward Yee]

Note re: Yahoo.co.hk, I find that even yahoo.com seems pretty good at dealing with hanzi.

[Sarevok]

Does google need to be have offices in China to offer Chineese language search and content ? They are an internet company. What do they gain by having a physical presence in China ?

[General Zod]

Does google need to be have offices in China to offer Chineese language search and content ? They are an internet company. What do they gain by having a physical presence in China ?

It's probably a combination of laws. You could set up a search portal, but if you're making profits from Chinese ads without having a legal presence and the necessary work permits there's nothing that would prevent the Chinese government from pulling the plug on your ass and blacklisting your site with the Great Firewall. You also don't get the benefits of legal protection in case someone tries fucking you over.

[ArmorPierce]

I don't know, I give google credit for saving e-mail from becoming a mostly paid-service. I remember until right before gmail was announced, e-mail service was going the opposite direction with free email service inbox spaces progressively shrinking and were pushing paid e-mail services. That all seemed to change with the announcement and release of gmail. What you guys think, agree/disagree?

[sketerpot]

I don't know, I give google credit for saving e-mail from becoming a mostly paid-service. I remember until right before gmail was announced, e-mail service was going the opposite direction with free email service inbox spaces progressively shrinking and were pushing paid e-mail services. That all seemed to change with the announcement and release of gmail. What you guys think, agree/disagree?

When they first announced Gmail on April 1, a lot of people thought it was obviously a joke. A whole gigabyte! Nobody else offered anything close to that.

After Gmail turned out to be real, the other free email providers started offering similar deals. They had to, in order to stay at all competitive. Without someone like Gmail to shake things up, I'm sure they would have kept on dicking around in the several-megabytes range. So yes, I agree.

[ArmorPierce]

I recall. I believe it was april fools (1st) 2004. I had the same reaction, it had to be a april fools joke (google was already known for their april fools pranks). This was a time when yahoo had shrank their free e-mail space all the way down to what was it, 5, 2 megabytes? Their paid e-mail service was like 500 mb. Google possibly saved free e-mail service, although it could be argued that someone else would have eventually have offered it I suppose.

[White Haven]

Yep, I remember that quite well, and then I remember when they went to 2GB on April Fools, and then did the whole 'counting up...' thing that everyone thought was a hoax. I still giggle a bit when I remember the sudden frantic scramble to catch up with the Gmail beta's inbox size from all the miserly fuckers.

[Paradoxical]

Seems Google is taking this more seriously than critics had given them credit for.

Google postpones Chinese mobiles

Google says it has postponed the launch of two Android based mobile phones in China following a dispute with the government over censorship.

The formal launch was due to take place on Wednesday, a spokesperson said.

The announcement came as the Chinese government said Google and other foreign firms must obey the country's laws and traditions.

Google said last week that it had been targeted in a sophisticated cyber attack thought to originate in China.

The attacks were thought to target the e-mail accounts of human rights activists.

As a result, the company said that it would no longer censor search engine results in China even if it meant it had to shut down operations in the country.

Google had planned to launch two handsets running its Android operating system in cooperation Samsung and Motorola.

"The launch we have been working on with China Unicom has been postponed," said a Google spokesperson.

China Unicom is a network provider in the country.

'Tough stance'

The news comes as foreign journalists based in Beijing claim to be the latest victims of China-based cyber attacks.

According to the Foreign Correspondents' Club of China's website (FCCC) emails from their Gmail accounts "were being forwarded to a stranger's address".

"We remind all members that journalists in China have been particular targets of hacker attacks in the last two years. Please be very careful about what links you click on, what e-mail attachments you open, and do run virus checks regularly," it said in a statement.

It also issued a checklist for its 400 members to help them secure their Gmail accounts.

Human rights organisation Reporters Without Borders said it was "deeply disturbed and outraged" by the attacks.

Reporters Without Borders said the compromised e-mail accounts constituted "a serious violation of their privacy, their professional work and their freedom to provide news and information".

"The hackers who targeted foreign journalists based in Beijing were probably trying to get contact details and information about the human rights activists who talk to the international press," it said in a statement.

"We firmly condemn these attacks and we call on the ministry of industry and information technology to provide an explanation," it added.

It also criticised Microsoft for failing to follow Google's tough stance.

Microsoft admitted that its Internet Explorer browser was a weak link in the recent attacks on Google's systems.

As a result, the governments of France and Germany have warned their citizens to switch to a new browser such as Firefox or Google's Chrome.

[MKSheppard]

Google is full of bullshit. They talked a lot about how their corporate slogan was "do no evil"; and then they turned around and censored the hell out of their own Google Service for users in China -- isn't that you know, doing evil, helping a state censor the media?

They only began to bitch about the Chinese hack attempts as a way of having a honorable exit from the Chinese Market; since they failed to get the super dominating position they expected in the billion chinaman market.