High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s top military commander was captured several days ago in Karachi, Pakistan, in a secret joint operation by Pakistani and American intelligence forces, according to American government officials.

The commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, is an Afghan described by American officials as the most significant Taliban figure to be detained since the American-led war in Afghanistan started more than eight years ago. He ranks second in influence only to Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban’s founder and a close associate of Osama bin Laden before the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mullah Baradar has been in Pakistani custody for several days, with American and Pakistani intelligence officials both taking part in interrogations, according to the officials.

It was unclear whether he was talking, but the officials said his capture had provided a window into the Taliban and could lead to other senior officials. Most immediately, they hope he will provide the whereabouts of Mullah Omar, the one-eyed cleric who is the group’s spiritual leader.

Disclosure of Mullah Baradar’s capture came as American and Afghan forces were in the midst of a major offensive in southern Afghanistan.

His capture could cripple the Taliban’s military operations, at least in the short term, said Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer who last spring led the Obama administration’s Afghanistan and Pakistan policy review.

Details of the raid remain murky, but officials said that it had been carried out by Pakistan’s military spy agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and that C.I.A. operatives had accompanied the Pakistanis.

The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating with each other.

The Times is publishing the news now because White House officials acknowledged that the capture of Mullah Baradar was becoming widely known in the region.

Several American government officials gave details about the raid on the condition that they not be named, because the operation was classified.

American officials believe that besides running the Taliban’s military operations, Mullah Baradar runs the group’s leadership council, often called the Quetta Shura because its leaders for years have been thought to be hiding near Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan Province in Pakistan.

A spokesman for the Taliban insisted on Tuesday that Baradar was still free.

“This is just rumor spread by foreigners to divert attention from the Marja offensive,” said the spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid.

“They are facing big problems in Marja. In reality there is nothing regarding Baradar’s arrest. He is safe and free and he is in Afghanistan.”

The participation of Pakistan’s spy service could suggest a new level of cooperation from Pakistan’s leaders, who have been ambivalent about American efforts to crush the Taliban. Increasingly, the Americans say, senior leaders in Pakistan, including the chief of its army, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, have gradually come around to the view that they can no longer support the Taliban in Afghanistan — as they have quietly done for years — without endangering themselves. Indeed, American officials have speculated that Pakistani security officials could have picked up Mullah Baradar long ago.

The officials said that Pakistan was leading the interrogation of Mullah Baradar, but that Americans were also involved. The conditions of the questioning are unclear. In its first week in office, the Obama administration banned harsh interrogations like waterboarding by Americans, but the Pakistanis have long been known to subject prisoners to brutal questioning.

American intelligence officials believe that elements within Pakistan’s security services have covertly supported the Taliban with money and logistical help — largely out of a desire to retain some ally inside Afghanistan for the inevitable day when the Americans leave.

The ability of the Taliban’s top leaders to operate relatively freely inside Pakistan has for years been a source of friction between the ISI and the C.I.A. Americans have complained that they have given ISI operatives the precise locations of Taliban leaders, but that the Pakistanis usually refuse to act.

The Pakistanis have countered that the American intelligence was often outdated, or that faulty information had been fed to the United States by Afghanistan’s intelligence service.

For the moment it is unclear how the capture of Mullah Baradar will affect the overall direction of the Taliban, who have so far refused to disavow Al Qaeda and to accept the Afghan Constitution. American officials have hoped to win over some midlevel members of the group.

Mr. Riedel, the former C.I.A. official, said that he had not heard about Mullah Baradar’s capture before being contacted by The Times, but that the raid constituted a “sea change in Pakistani behavior.”

In recent weeks, American officials have said they have seen indications that the Pakistani military and spy services may finally have begun to distance themselves from the Taliban. One Obama administration official said Monday that the White House had “no reason to think that anybody was double-dealing at all” in aiding in the capture of Mullah Baradar.

A parade of American officials traveling to the Pakistani capital have made the case that the Afghan Taliban are now aligned with groups — like the Pakistani Taliban — that threaten the stability of the Pakistani government.

Mullah Baradar oversees the group’s operations across its primary area of activity in southern and western Afghanistan. While some of the insurgent groups active in Afghanistan receive only general guidance from their leaders, the Taliban are believed to be somewhat hierarchical, with lower-ranking field commanders often taking directions and orders from their leaders across the border.

In an attempt to improve the Taliban’s image both inside the country and abroad, Mullah Baradar last year helped issue a “code of conduct” for Taliban fighters. The handbook, small enough to be carried in the pocket of each Taliban foot soldier, gave specific guidance about topics including how to avoid civilian casualties, how to win the hearts and minds of villagers, and the necessity of limiting suicide attacks to avoid a backlash.

In recent months, a growing number of Taliban leaders are believed to have fled to Karachi, a sprawling, chaotic city in southern Pakistan hundreds of miles from the turbulence of the Afghan frontier. A diplomat based in Kabul, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said in an interview last month that Mullah Omar had moved to Karachi, and that several of his colleagues were there, too.

The leadership council, which includes more than a dozen of the Taliban’s best-known leaders, charts the overall direction of the war, assigns Taliban “shadow governors” to run many Afghan provinces and districts, and chooses battlefield commanders. It also oversees a number of subcommittees that direct other aspects of the war, like political, religious and military affairs.

According to Wahid Muzhda, a former Taliban official in Kabul who stays in touch with former colleagues, the council meets every three or four months to plot strategy. As recently as three years ago, he said, the council had 19 members. Since then, six have been killed or captured. Others have since filled the empty seats, he said.

Among the council members killed were Mullah Dadullah, who died during a raid by NATO and Afghan forces in 2007. Among the captured were Mullah Obaidullah, the Taliban defense minister, who reported to Mr. Baradar.

“The only man more powerful than Baradar is Omar,” Mr. Muzhda said. “He and Omar cannot meet very often because of security reasons, but they have a very good relationship.”

Western and Afghan officials familiar with the workings of the Taliban’s leadership have described Mullah Baradar as one of the Taliban’s most approachable leaders, and the one most ready to negotiate with the Afghan government.

Mediators who have worked to resolve kidnappings and other serious issues have often approached the Taliban leadership through him.

As in the case of the reclusive Mullah Omar, the public details of Mullah Baradar’s life are murky. According to an Interpol alert, he was born in 1968 in Weetmak, a village in Afghanistan’s Oruzgan Province. Terrorism experts describe him as a skilled military leader who runs many high-level meetings of the Taliban’s top commanders in Afghanistan.

In answers to questions submitted by Newsweek last summer, Mullah Baradar said that he could not maintain “continuous contacts” with Mullah Omar, but that he received advice on “important topics” from the cleric.

In the same interview, Mullah Baradar said he welcomed a large increase in American troops in Afghanistan because the Taliban “want to inflict maximum losses on the Americans, which is possible only when the Americans are present here in large numbers and come out of their fortified places.”

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Mullah Baradar was assigned by Mullah Omar to assume overall command of Taliban forces in northern Afghanistan. In that role, he oversaw a large group of battle-hardened Arab and foreign fighters who were based in the northern cities of Kunduz and Mazar-i-Sharif.

In November 2001, as Taliban forces collapsed after the American invasion, Mullah Baradar and several other senior Taliban leaders were captured by Afghan militia fighters aligned with the United States. But Pakistani intelligence operatives intervened, and Mullah Baradar and the other Taliban leaders were released, according to a senior official of the Northern Alliance, the group of Afghans aligned with the United States.
The title is mostly to hedge against the multiple times the 'Number Two Man' was killed earlier in this conflict.

But this brings out a new question: Will the GOP shift from 'Obama killing too many terrorists' and 'Obama is announcing too many people talking' to 'Obama capturing terrorists, allowing them to strike again'?
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Edi »

It doesn't matter what he does or how well he succeeds, they will attack him anyway and lie about him being soft on terror. Salon.com has numerous articles detailing how they go about it, several from just the last couple of days.

Anything the Republicans or right wing media say about Obama in this regard, especially if it is to criticize him, can be assumed to be a flat out lie unless proven otherwise.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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I feel...satisfied. Nice to here some good news
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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A bunch of high ranking Taliban were killed by ISAF SOF last week before Operation Moshtarak began, something like 50.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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normally I would say something like "The GOP is all upset that Obama isn't water-bording and Torturing these guys" but it really isn't so any more...
It Doens't MATTER what Obama does, the republitards will NEVER be happy with it...
Personally if tomorrow we caught Osama Bin Ladin himself, the GOP would be out saying that it would have been done better or sooner if they were in charge.....
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Master of Ossus »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:normally I would say something like "The GOP is all upset that Obama isn't water-bording and Torturing these guys" but it really isn't so any more...
It Doens't MATTER what Obama does, the republitards will NEVER be happy with it...
Personally if tomorrow we caught Osama Bin Ladin himself, the GOP would be out saying that it would have been done better or sooner if they were in charge.....
Sorry, but... which Republicans were complaining about this?
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by MKSheppard »

I've seen a good point raised by Ed Morrissey of Hot Air. It seems that the major lead on this was the Pakistanis.

Others have suggested that this guy was deliberately given up by the ISI, who knew where his whereabouts were pretty much; and that he was deliberately sacrificed by the Pakistanis as a way of deflecting the final showdown with India (RE: the recent bombing in India).

Ultimately though; something big enough that the ISI can't buy off the Indians via tossing a couple of guys under the bus will happen...

EDIT: It also seems that the Pakistanis are leading the interrogation, with the CIA guys sitting off in the corner writing things down, and occasionally asking questions.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Count Chocula »

Predator strikes in Pakistan? Allowing the ISI to interrogate Taliban? An Afghan surge that's succeeding despite the retarded rules of engagement? Pakistan remembering who has the biggest can of whoop-ass on the planet? Go team!

IIRC, this is like the umpty-jizzilionth "Top Ranking Taliban" captured, which means that the surviving Taliban who ascend to the heights of leadership are progressively less experienced in fighting their fight. NOT a bad thing at all. It's kind of like playing Whack-A-Mole at Chuck e Cheese: as you get into a rhythm, the moles sticking their heads up get whacked faster and the game gets easier, which in the real world means we do a better job of containing these nutsacks.

EDIT: Pakistan used to be part of India until a bunch of militant Islamics established the...um...Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Now they're seeing again, just like in 2002-2003, that they really shouldn't fuck with America Fuck Yeah India and expect no repercussions.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Count Chocula wrote:EDIT: Pakistan used to be part of India until a bunch of militant Islamics established the...um...Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Now they're seeing again, just like in 2002-2003, that they really shouldn't fuck with America Fuck Yeah India and expect no repercussions.
Actually no, Pakistan was part of India until Britain split up the colony and established Pakistan upon the end of colonial rule in 1947.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Count Chocula »

^ You're right, it was Britain that split their empire's holdings, damn mercantilist policies. And Pakistan was given to the squeakiest wheel, which was led by Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah of the Muslim League, instead of remaining part of the Dominion of India in 1947. So I got the context right and the players wrong. Oops.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Um no. The history of how Pakistan came to be is a very complex one. Islamic militants like today did not exist back then. While religion was one of the many reasons why the decision to form Pakistan was accepted by most leaders at the time ultimately nationalism proved to be a greater cause. Being muslim did not stop East Pakistan from civil war and secession. Similarly Pakistans conflict with India has always centered around breaking off Kashmir from India rather than jihad against teh hindus.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Master of Ossus wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:normally I would say something like "The GOP is all upset that Obama isn't water-bording and Torturing these guys" but it really isn't so any more...
It Doens't MATTER what Obama does, the republitards will NEVER be happy with it...
Personally if tomorrow we caught Osama Bin Ladin himself, the GOP would be out saying that it would have been done better or sooner if they were in charge.....
Sorry, but... which Republicans were complaining about this?
If by "this" you mean the current handling of terrorism issues (including this one, which they have conspicuously avoided mentioning), Dick Cheney, Liz Cheney, Dana Perino, Michael Mukasey and others.

Some other names can be found in this article.

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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Pelranius »

I wonder why the Taliban was stupid enough to hide in Karachi of all places. Surely they didn't think that the ISI would grant them a free pass in prepuity?
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Sarevok »

Pelranius wrote:I wonder why the Taliban was stupid enough to hide in Karachi of all places. Surely they didn't think that the ISI would grant them a free pass in prepuity?
Why NOT Karachi ? Living in a fortified camp on a hill in middle of nowhere is asking to get steamrolled by military forces. Karachi is a big, cosmopolitan city. It would be very easy to blend in amongst normal people instead of hunkering down in a lawless part of Pakistan where the government has everything from tanks to gunships deployed.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Sarevok wrote:
Pelranius wrote:I wonder why the Taliban was stupid enough to hide in Karachi of all places. Surely they didn't think that the ISI would grant them a free pass in prepuity?
Why NOT Karachi ? Living in a fortified camp on a hill in middle of nowhere is asking to get steamrolled by military forces. Karachi is a big, cosmopolitan city. It would be very easy to blend in amongst normal people instead of hunkering down in a lawless part of Pakistan where the government has everything from tanks to gunships deployed.
The problem is that the ISI has a lot more contacts in Karachi than say the Tribal Areas, not to mention an actual police force in the city. And Karachi being more cosmopolitian means that it's easier for other people to watch them.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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SirNitram wrote:
But this brings out a new question: Will the GOP shift from 'Obama killing too many terrorists' and 'Obama is announcing too many people talking' to 'Obama capturing terrorists, allowing them to strike again'?
Wait a goddamn minute. The G(arish) O(old) P(igs) have criticized Obama for killing too many terrorists? When the hell did this happen? Shouldn't they be happy that Obama is killing terrorists, given that "killing terrorists" was half their fucking platform for the last eight years? Or are they only happy when we grab some non-descript and possibly innocent brown people and torture them for two years before killing them? Exactly how can the repubs criticize Obama for the targeted killings of terrorist leaders? Not that I don't believe the GOP's hypocrisy can go that far, but i'd like to see a source for this.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Darksider wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
But this brings out a new question: Will the GOP shift from 'Obama killing too many terrorists' and 'Obama is announcing too many people talking' to 'Obama capturing terrorists, allowing them to strike again'?
Wait a goddamn minute. The G(arish) O(old) P(igs) have criticized Obama for killing too many terrorists? When the hell did this happen? Shouldn't they be happy that Obama is killing terrorists, given that "killing terrorists" was half their fucking platform for the last eight years.
Actually that is EXACTLY what the right wing is currently saying...
After 7 years of "Kill all Terrorists Everywhere!!!" The right is now attacking Obama for NOT capturing these people alive.. Arguing that by killing them and NOT capturing + Torturing them, that we loose Vital information that could be used to stop Terrorist attacks!!!

So once again its a case of the GOP being against Obama no mater WHAT He does. If he started capturing Terrorists tomorrow instead of killing them, the GOP With a perfect straight face, would go back to saying he is too soft on them and demand he starts killing them.

As far as a Source goes, I will try and find one to link, But Keith Olbermann has repeatedly played clips of various Conservatives Saying in one breath "Obama is weak on Terrorists" and in the next "Obama shouldn't kill them but capture and Interrogate them!"
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Sarevok wrote:Why NOT Karachi ? Living in a fortified camp on a hill in middle of nowhere is asking to get steamrolled by military forces. Karachi is a big, cosmopolitan city. It would be very easy to blend in amongst normal people instead of hunkering down in a lawless part of Pakistan where the government has everything from tanks to gunships deployed.
Don't forget it's much more convient from an operational and logistical standpoint.

99% of the time they spend is generally just sitting around planning.

Wouldn't it be easier to plan in a house with a decent roof, decent food supply, semi reliable electricity for your laptop, and the fact that there are eleventy billion cell phones in Karachi to hide your call? The NSA/NRO can't intercept every single call from PAkistan; but they CAN intercept each call made from a remote area where almost nobody lives or has cell phones.

And you can change safehouses every so often to foil the ISI -- I am sure the bad guys only trust the ISI to a point -- because pakistan could always get some brownie points by bagging not just one guy (high ranking as he may be); but virtually all of a cell.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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|Wapo article

I'll quote just the revelant bit:
As recently as last year, U.S. sources said, Pakistani intelligence officials were thought to be in direct contact with Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, second only to Taliban leader Mohammad Omar in the insurgent hierarchy. One source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters, said midlevel Pakistani officials had attended meetings with Baradar.

"His whereabouts, I think, were extremely well-known to the Pakistanis for a long time," said Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani journalist and Taliban expert.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Darksider wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
But this brings out a new question: Will the GOP shift from 'Obama killing too many terrorists' and 'Obama is announcing too many people talking' to 'Obama capturing terrorists, allowing them to strike again'?
Wait a goddamn minute. The G(arish) O(old) P(igs) have criticized Obama for killing too many terrorists? When the hell did this happen? Shouldn't they be happy that Obama is killing terrorists, given that "killing terrorists" was half their fucking platform for the last eight years? Or are they only happy when we grab some non-descript and possibly innocent brown people and torture them for two years before killing them? Exactly how can the repubs criticize Obama for the targeted killings of terrorist leaders? Not that I don't believe the GOP's hypocrisy can go that far, but i'd like to see a source for this.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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i seem to recall how in 92 the west pakistani hindus and muslims teamed up and murdered their east pakistani counterparts, puting aside their hate for totally the wrong reasons.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

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Darth Yan wrote:i seem to recall how in 92 the west pakistani hindus and muslims teamed up and murdered their east pakistani counterparts, puting aside their hate for totally the wrong reasons.
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It was something to do with the elections. There were some murders around that time. I could be mistaken though.
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by MKSheppard »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:After 7 years of "Kill all Terrorists Everywhere!!!" The right is now attacking Obama for NOT capturing these people alive.. Arguing that by killing them and NOT capturing + Torturing them, that we loose Vital information that could be used to stop Terrorist attacks!!!
The problem is, we NEED to be able to at least capture mid-high level people on an occasional basis, so we can pick their brains.

Intelligence gathered through SIGINT, and analysis of captured electronics/documents only goes so far. While social networking and patterning software has made great strides, funded by the CIA/NRO/NSA/etc, so that you can type in everything you know about guy x and guy y, and then see the links through the profiles of fifty other guys, nothing beats being able to interrogate someone for the little bits that aren't written down.

Time will tell though; it's just too early to tell.

I suspect by winter 2010 or this time next year, we'll be able to have a decent statistical sample of the new directives' effect, and whether the following have happened:

A.) The Catch and Interrogate program has effectively ended (little to no growth in population at Gitmo, etc etc).

or

B.) The Catch and Interrogate Program has been scaled back (Gitmo population grows, but not at the rate it did under Bush).
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Sarevok
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Re: High Ranking Taliban captured, interrogations ongoing.

Post by Sarevok »

UnderAGreySky wrote:
Darth Yan wrote:i seem to recall how in 92 the west pakistani hindus and muslims teamed up and murdered their east pakistani counterparts, puting aside their hate for totally the wrong reasons.
Say what?
I think he is talking about the 1971 war and how East Pakistan broke away from the west.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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