Doctor Who S05E07: "Amy's Choice" [Spoilers]

[Admiral Valdemar]

Now on.

[Bounty]

Well, two excellent episodes for the price of one! I loved it. Probably the best of the series so far. The plot was clever and the ending really threw me. Loved the little stinger with the Dream Lord too, even if it's a cliché.

Definitely a 5.

[Crazedwraith]

Well I found the both a dream ending entirely predicable. Why should the bad guy give you the choice between a real and a fake when he can just as easily create two fakes? The 'cold star' and the cartoon justification given by the alien race were the two clinchers for me.

Still the performance of the four main characters brought this up to spec. I liked the dream lord and his criticisms of the Doctor, which pretty much strike true.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I concur with Bounty. That was expertly done in terms of pacing, plot, characters and humour. For some reason the Dream Lord reminded me of the midget from Carnivàle. I had my reasons for either world being a dream, but also thinking if I was in that situation there'd be no way for me to decide either until I was trapped in a corner like Amy was and thought to hell with it. At that point, what do you care? Only The Doctor had something to lose, but he wasn't going to deny Amy that choice, not after potentially ruining her ideal life. Kind've reminded me of The Sarah Jane Adventures two parter "The Wedding Of Sarah Jane Smith" too.

[El Moose Monstero]

I enjoyed that, a couple of minor criticisms but nothing worth writing paragraphs on - maybe a little bit more of a reveal at the end than 'oh, didn't you work it out? It was me', bit of a shame to have what's actually quite a big admission to just be tossed away as 10 seconds of screentime. Other than that, can't really moan.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Heh, Karen's being weird on Confidential now. Got a leetle too attached to that bump.

[mappster]

Really enjoyed that, my favourite episode of this season by far.

The Dream Lord is Spoiler

The Valeyard

right?

[Captain Seafort]

Absolutely bloody brilliant, even if half of it was pure Shaun of the Dead. I particularly like these episodes when Smith seems to be basing a lot of his Doctor off Troughton.

Regarding the Dream Master, did anyone pick up on who he was before the Doctor pointed it out? Until then, while it makes sense with hindsight, I was leaning towards either the Toymaker or the Master of the Land of Fiction - his MO was similar enough to what I've heard of them to be plausible.

EDIT: He's a better done Valeyard and, I think, a possible candidate for the main enemy of the series.

[Admiral Valdemar]

We didn't get any crack in space-time reference, although I almost thought they'd do that as justification for the aliens inhabiting the OAPs just as the space fish
things were displaced last week in Venice. If it was the Valeyard, maybe he will recur sometime. I don't think he's the Big Bad this season, though.

Also, I thought Simon Nye had done DW before, but this is his first episode and he normally writes sitcoms i.e. Men Behaving Badly. Good going.

[El Moose Monstero]

Absolutely bloody brilliant, even if half of it was pure Shaun of the Dead. I particularly like these episodes when Smith seems to be basing a lot of his Doctor off Troughton.

Regarding the Dream Master, did anyone pick up on who he was before the Doctor pointed it out? Until then, while it makes sense with hindsight, I was leaning towards either the Toymaker or the Master of the Land of Fiction - his MO was similar enough to what I've heard of them to be plausible.

EDIT: He's a better done Valeyard and, I think, a possible candidate for the main enemy of the series.

Why does he have to be anything other than just a psychic manifestation of the Doctor's dark side? I thought that was a nice idea - you can't go through 900 years of hell without picking up demons, it doesn't need to be something you can defeat in a series finale, it's something you have to learn to live with - hence the reflection thing, I thought. It's also why I would have liked to see a little more impact from the realisation, as it basically means that because of the Doctor and some of the things the Doctor has done, that he nearly killed all of them.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The Doc has had plenty of moments showing his mental instability, not least because of his involvement in the Time War. I imagine if he had just been responsible for Amy's fiancé being killed, he'd have certainly lost it. He looked resigned to the fact that he'd fucked up right after Amy exclaimed "Then what good are you?!". The blowing up of the TARDIS thing reminded me of Doc Brown destroying the DeLorean in BttF, I actually thought he was going to give up his life of being a Time Lord only for Amy to talk him out of some temporary madness via guilt.

Keep an eye on his moods anyway. He still comes off as somewhat autistic and troubled, if not showing it like Ten started to at the end of his run.

[Captain Seafort]

Why does he have to be anything other than just a psychic manifestation of the Doctor's dark side? I thought that was a nice idea - you can't go through 900 years of hell without picking up demons, it doesn't need to be something you can defeat in a series finale, it's something you have to learn to live with - hence the reflection thing, I thought.

I'm using the term "Valeyard" pretty loosely to describe the various manifestations of the darker aspects of the Doctor's character, not necessarily a physical form like Jayston's. I also don't think that defeating it in the series finale and having to live with it are necessarily mutually exclusive - it was "defeated" this time, but as you point out the reflection thing demonstrates the obvious fact that it hasn't gone away.

[Revy]

It's also why I would have liked to see a little more impact from the realisation, as it basically means that because of the Doctor and some of the things the Doctor has done, that he nearly killed all of them.

How so? How were they in any actual danger in this episode? As the Dream Lord points out, if you die in your dreams you wake up. Both worlds were dream worlds, and there's no indication that they were in any real danger in actual reality. At most you could say they could have been permenantly trapped in a dream world, but the Doctor would be bound to figure it out sooner or later (as he in fact does). So there was no actual threat in this episode to them.

Fairly good episode, although I found bits really annoying, but that's just because of my personal tastes. From the preview of the next episode it seems Rory is sticking around, so it looks as if they are actually going with more than one companion instead of just having the Doctor run around with a female sidekick.

Anyone else get a creepy vibe when the Dream Lord mentioned that the Doctor is an 'old man' who collects young people and tosses them aside when they grow up? And this is his dark side talking about it. So yeah.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Which retard voted one? I notice we always get one who, conveniently, never actually voices their criticisms either.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Most interesting line in the episode was the Doctor saying "this is the person in the universe who hates me the most".

[Admiral Valdemar]

Most interesting line in the episode was the Doctor saying "this is the person in the universe who hates me the most".

He knew from the beginning that this was some part of his psyche. I wonder if he has more issues than he's letting on, given the reason he picked up Amy was because, as we all know, he cannot stand being alone, even if he also finds companions trouble too.

[Crazedwraith]

I hope the titular choice here remains made. Eleven/Rory/Amy need to find a new dynamic after the last couple of episodes. It starts to wear real thin, real quickly.

[Captain Seafort]

I hope the titular choice here remains made. Eleven/Rory/Amy need to find a new dynamic after the last couple of episodes. It starts to wear real thin, real quickly.

It's the sort of thing that makes things interesting while its around, although I agree with the sentiment. Looking at the last couple of episodes (plus the last few minutes of Flesh and Stone) as a coherent arc, I think Moffat has the same view of things. That snog was a distinct WFT moment, but in the context of the arc (and as an excuse to get Rory aboard) it makes more sense, and I think (or at the very least hope) that it's run its course.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Excellent episode, a definite 5. Matt Smith is, to me, really filling the role well.

A clever plot and one that was well directed. When Rory said he wanted to do something for Amy and grabbed the scissors i was half expecting him to do a quick and dirty C-Section so Amy could hold her baby before they died. Oh well. Some real corkers of moments in it

"Rory, I've landed on the flowers"

"If you die in the dream, you wake up in reality. Aske me what happens if you die in reality"
"What happens if you die in reality?"
"You die stupid that's why it's called reality"

From the Dream Lords comment about Leadworth being the "village that Time forgot" i was expecting the old people who appeared to be the children who dissapeared, or something freaky like that, but oh well, aliens where good too

And, yes, "this is the person in the universe who hates me the most" is interesting. Maybe the Doctor is starting to develop multiple personality disorder after all his travels and suffering. Would certainly explain some his odder behaviour

[Captain Seafort]

And, yes, "this is the person in the universe who hates me the most" is interesting.

It makes sense. The Doctor is the only person who knows everything he's been up to and between the deaths of various companions, not wiping out the Daleks when he had the chance, the genocide of the Vervoids, the destruction of Gallifrey, and a million and one other things it wouldn't be too surprising if he developed a strong streak of self-loathing.

On a related topic, while the Doctor referred to the Dream Master as his dark side, I'm not so sure. Most of his rants were along the lines of the Doctor taking his companions for a whizz round the cosmos and then abandoning them. That's no more than the truth. On top of that he hinted that he's responsible for some terrible things (also true, albeit out of context), and his tricks were ultimately responsible for putting the kibosh on this Doctor/Amy nonsense and making her think about what she'd do if Rory wasn't around, rather than somewhat taking him for granted. His methods were somewhat blunt, but neither his messages, nor the outcome they achieved seemed particularly evil to me.

[Bounty]

Also funny in retrospect: the Dream Lord's rant about the Doctor's dress sense. Apparently he thinks he's a WAG...

[El Moose Monstero]

It's also why I would have liked to see a little more impact from the realisation, as it basically means that because of the Doctor and some of the things the Doctor has done, that he nearly killed all of them.

How so? How were they in any actual danger in this episode? As the Dream Lord points out, if you die in your dreams you wake up. Both worlds were dream worlds, and there's no indication that they were in any real danger in actual reality. At most you could say they could have been permenantly trapped in a dream world, but the Doctor would be bound to figure it out sooner or later (as he in fact does). So there was no actual threat in this episode to them.

That's a damn good point, I didn't actually make that connection. Slightly takes the edge off the whole episode when you put it like that!

[Old Peculier]

When Rory said he wanted to do something for Amy and grabbed the scissors i was half expecting him to do a quick and dirty C-Section so Amy could hold her baby before they died.

I do despair. Really?

On a related topic, while the Doctor referred to the Dream Master as his dark side, I'm not so sure. Most of his rants were along the lines of the Doctor taking his companions for a whizz round the cosmos and then abandoning them. That's no more than the truth. On top of that he hinted that he's responsible for some terrible things (also true, albeit out of context), and his tricks were ultimately responsible for putting the kibosh on this Doctor/Amy nonsense and making her think about what she'd do if Rory wasn't around, rather than somewhat taking him for granted. His methods were somewhat blunt, but neither his messages, nor the outcome they achieved seemed particularly evil to me.

You're not sure that the manifestation of his self-loathing, who terrorizes his companions and basically drives Amy to make the choice to possibly end her life doesn't seem to be clearly his dark side? What is it, his light and fluffy side? Who says it has to be pure evil incarnate to be dark?

That's a damn good point, I didn't actually make that connection. Slightly takes the edge off the whole episode when you put it like that!

Yeah, but there's still tension during the episode, and the character development at the end makes the episode not-pointless.

I liked this episode, but the spoiler for next week looks the least interesting so far this season.

[Captain Seafort]

You're not sure that the manifestation of his self-loathing

No worse than anything the Tenth expressed.

who terrorizes his companions

Terrorised? He was simply stating facts. If you want to see the Doctor terrorising his companions watch part one of The Twin Dilemma. Six made this character look positively cuddly.

basically drives Amy to make the choice to possibly end her life

Did you finish watching the episode? Neither Shaun of the Dead ripooffs nor the "cold star" were real, and therefore neither of them threatened anybody's life.

What is it, his light and fluffy side? Who says it has to be pure evil incarnate to be dark?

Black and white fallacy - I'm not saying it's the most likeable aspects of his character, but ultimately he was laying out facts about the Doctor bluntly but truthfully, and shook Amy out of her crush on the Doctor she'd developed. His actions were unpleasant but beneficial.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I liked this episode, but the spoiler for next week looks the least interesting so far this season.

Worth remembering that next week is part one of a two parter, there's probably lots we're not seeing.