Clanners on Pandora

[Zor]

In this scenario, Q deposits a force of Battletech Clanners onto Pandora a few years befor Jake Sully's arrival and are given a backstory about how they got their involving a freak accident with their Jump Drive and their JumpShip being destroyed, forcing them to land on this moon and so forth. This base is within a hundred kilometers of Hell's Gate. The Clan forces include a few thousand scientist, Tech and Labour caste people which have set of basic habitation complex and motorpool able to provide them with air, food and a secured place to Sleep and store stuff with a Few machine gun turrets and a fence to fend off the native wildlife. They also have among them a few warrior caste figures, among them being...

500 Solahma Infantry
100 Elementals
30 Light mechs of various clan classes
5 Hunchback IIC Mechs
5 Timberwolves
5 Mad Dogs

In addition to a few civilian vehiches and a decent supply of ammunition. The clan commander who is in charge of this shebang goes out and sends a Batchall to Hell's Gate. The RDA forces are of the same size that they were during the film. The Na'vi natives don't see the clanners as being any better or worse than the RDA.

What happens?

Zor

[Sarevok]

RDA is crushed like a paper box by clan forces.

AMP suits vs Mechs

AMP suits have a huge open glass cockpit.Actually its entire torso is just mostly glass. A Navi can smash it open with a blow. Imagine what a 200 kilogram explosive shell fired by a Hunchbacks AC20 is going to do. There is also the fact that all the Mechs carry laser weapons capable of vaporizing tank armor. The pilot is going to get blinded even by a glancing hit.

In terms of weaponry AMP suits have a single autocannon. Its described as 30 mm but its actual displayed power is much weaker than that. A mech mounted machine gun (weakest weapon in Battletech )is probably stronger than the AMP suits sole weapon.

The mechs in this scenario weight 50-75 tons.An AMP suit weighs less than two tons. Thats barely heavier than an elemental. Its no surprise how fucked the AMP suits are/

Elementals vs AMP suits

The AMP suits are still fucked. Elementals are ridiculasly agile suits of power armor. They can fly with jump jets. Their armor can take hits from armored fighting vehicle and mech guns. And the Elementals can shoot back with a lethal onboard arsenal. The standard Elemental has shoulder mounted guided missiles, a laser and a machine gun in each arm. The glass canopied AMP suit wont last more than few seconds against hail of missiles, bullets and laser beams the Elemental can send. Hitting the Elemental itself will be extremely difficult. An Elemental is faster than a Navi, can fly and has armor like a light tank. Its a very hard target to hit and damage for AMP suits.

RDA infantry vs Elementals, Mechs

Ahahahahaha.....

RDA has no rockets, ATGMs whatsoever. They wear flak jackets for protection. They have nothing but small arms to use against bullet proof power armor and 75 ton battlemechs. For clanners slaughtering RDA infantry wont be war but pest control.

RDA gunships vs Mechs

All mechs have have limited surface to air modes for their weapons. This is sufficient that non specialized designs can still hit Aerospace fighters.

Not that it would matter anyway. RDA gunships can be brought down by bows and arrows. They fly so low and slow a ww2 fighter squadron can massacre them. They have some shitty inaccurate rocket launchers and piddly machine guns for weapons. The ranges of these weapons are so short the pilot can probably spit further than the weapons can shoot.

[LionElJonson]

Bows and arrows fired by superhuman aliens, mind you. Why is it that when alien bugs with claws and fangs turn up, they're a credible threat, but when they're weilding bows and arrows made from alien supermaterials, they aren't?

[Imperial528]

The only thing super about the Na'vi is that were taller than baseline human, stronger, and had harder bones. They are nothing when compared to a machine.

And the materials they make their weapons out of seem to be wood and stones, which are both quite weak, and the fact that the glass cockpits on the RDA gunships were capable of being pierced by such arrows shows how weak the cockpits are, since if they were made of bullet-proof glass or most tempered glass they might get scratched.

[Sarevok]

@lionel

If the arrows travelled at bullet like speeds you would have point. Besides Navi are described as only four times stronger than a baseline human. Navi arrows looked and behaved like arrows fired by human archers, only a bit larger in size. Anyway the real problem is there is no way the glass on amp suits is stopping a 200 kg shell or high energy laser.

[Shroom Man 777]

The RDA ship fires its thrusters at orbit. Killing all the gundamechanimumangoes. The limp-dicked mecha majors lose, General Kenobi Sarevokerritch.

Not that it would matter anyway. RDA gunships can be brought down by bows and arrows. They fly so low and slow a ww2 fighter squadron can massacre them. They have some shitty inaccurate rocket launchers and piddly machine guns for weapons. The ranges of these weapons are so short the pilot can probably spit further than the weapons can shoot.

Those missile/rockets' guidance systems don't work in the flux vortexes. Outside of those vortexes, I don't think they'd be any worse than modern guided missiles.

It doesn't matter anyway. The gundamechanimus probably outnumber the population of humans on Pandora itself, much less the rent-a-cop PMCs.

Still. The RDA just evacuates its site if these Klansmen pick a fight. Then the RDA uses its spaceship's relativistic drive to vaporize the surface of Pandora. Then they can come back and claim the world.

Hey, they won't even need MiG-36 Pacemakers, Sarevok! They can do this with their VTOLs!

[Sarevok]

The RDA ship fires its thrusters at orbit. Killing all the gundamechanimumangoes. The limp-dicked mecha majors lose, General Kenobi Sarevokerritch.

Also killing the Navi in the process.

Those missile/rockets' guidance systems don't work in the flux vortexes. Outside of those vortexes, I don't think they'd be any worse than modern guided missiles.

I dunno. Most real life air to surface weapons are not radar guided. Most are optically or laser guided. They won't be affected by radar jamming flux vortices at all.

It doesn't matter anyway. The gundamechanimus probably outnumber the population of humans on Pandora itself, much less the rent-a-cop PMCs.

Not really. The Mechs number only 45.

Still. The RDA just evacuates its site if these Klansmen pick a fight. Then the RDA uses its spaceship's relativistic drive to vaporize the surface of Pandora. Then they can come back and claim the world.

The RDA ship is years away. In that time the clanners can set up an orbital gun by scavenging naval lasers from their wrecked starship.

[Shroom Man 777]

The RDA ship fires its thrusters at orbit. Killing all the gundamechanimumangoes. The limp-dicked mecha majors lose, General Kenobi Sarevokerritch.

Also killing the Navi in the process.

Operation PANDORAN FREEDOM will liberate the Na'vi from the foul inefficient mechanical appendages of those gundamechanimumangoes! With us or against us! Democracy! Freedom! Mecha scum! FAT-FATs! Urgh! Urgh!

Those missile/rockets' guidance systems don't work in the flux vortexes. Outside of those vortexes, I don't think they'd be any worse than modern guided missiles.

I dunno. Most real life air to surface weapons are not radar guided. Most are optically or laser guided. They won't be affected by radar jamming flux vortices at all.

Except Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez said that the vortexes would force them to fight up close and personal.

It doesn't matter anyway. The gundamechanimus probably outnumber the population of humans on Pandora itself, much less the rent-a-cop PMCs.

Not really. The Mechs number only 45.

That's probably more than the number of RDA footsoldiers deployed in the final fight.

(what the fuck is an Elemental anyway?)

The RDA ship is years away. In that time the clanners can set up an orbital gun by scavenging naval lasers from their wrecked starship.

Not really. "Years before Jake Sully's arrival" =/= years before the previous RDA ship's arrival/voyage/journey/tour/rotation/whatever.

Unless in the years before Jake Sully's arrival, the RDA never sent a ship to Shroomdora.

Maybe they can load the Venture Star with explosives and send it on a hypersonic kamikaze run on the Klansmen's base! URGH! URGH!

EDIT:

Also, shit! Mechas are even worse than VTOLs, Sarevokerritch!

I mean, sure, the US lost Vietnam because they used shitty VTOL Hueys and Chinooks instead of MiG-17 Facemakers.

But if the US used fucking mechas, the Vietnam War would've been even worse! The fucking Viet Cong would've made it up to Washington DC!

[Sarevok]

Except Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez said that the vortexes would force them to fight up close and personal.

The vortexes cant force a short range fight if the gunships did not exclusively use radar guided missiles. Most real life gunships dont. Missiles like the Hellfire would still have over five mile ranges on Pandora.

That's probably more than the number of RDA footsoldiers deployed in the final fight.

(what the fuck is an Elemental anyway?)

Elementals powered armored designed to fight vehicles and mechs on equal terms

Not really. "Years before Jake Sully's arrival" =/= years before the previous RDA ship's arrival/voyage/journey/tour/rotation/whatever.

RDA has a four year schedule for ship arrival/departure.

Maybe they can load the Venture Star with explosives and send it on a hypersonic kamikaze run on the Klansmen's base! URGH! URGH!

It will get shot down by Mechs which can often intercept aerospace fighters.

[Shroom Man 777]

The vortexes cant force a short range fight if the gunships did not exclusively use radar guided missiles. Most real life gunships dont. Missiles like the Hellfire would still have over five mile ranges on Pandora.

Were the flux vortexes only said to work on radar? Didn't flux vortexes even affect the LCD/CRT/holo/whatever display screens of the aircraft, making them all fuzzy (did this happen? I seem to remember, but not sure)? Maybe it also has adverse affects on other electronics.

http://www.solaris7.com/images/TRO/Batt ... tal_LT.jpg

Elementals powered armored designed to fight vehicles and mechs on equal terms

With these guys, or even with just the 500 infantry, there are enough Klansmen to outnumber the military/mercenary personnel of the RDA. Hell, the 500 infantry could beat the RDA through massed attack alone (just give a few MANPADs to deal with the VTOLicopters).

RDA has a four year schedule for ship arrival/departure.

So? "Years before Jake Sully's arrival". Okay. Four years before Jake Sully's arrival. When the previous ship was on Pandora.

Maybe that ship will never get to make it back to Earth.

Because it ran out of fuel.

And vaporized the gundamechanimumangoes from orbit.

Hahahahahaha.

It will get shot down by Mechs which can often intercept aerospace fighters.

The RDA starship will perform suppression of enemy air defense (SEAD) by incinerating (half of) Pandora's surface. Then with the aerospace reasonably secure, the shuttle can do its kamikaze run and blow up the incinerated remains of the mecha scum. Just to be sure.

[Sarevok]

Were the flux vortexes only said to work on radar? Didn't flux vortexes even affect the LCD/CRT/holo/whatever display screens of the aircraft, making them all fuzzy (did this happen? I seem to remember, but not sure)? Maybe it also has adverse affects on other electronics.

The dialogue explicitly state the radar. I remember seeing the radar screens go fuzzy when they entered the flying mountain ranges. Rest of their electronic equipment including radio worked perfectly fine though. Which is kind of odd seeing how radar and radio is interrelated. But technobabble does not have to be consistent.

With these guys, or even with just the 500 infantry, there are enough Klansmen to outnumber the military/mercenary personnel of the RDA. Hell, the 500 infantry could beat the RDA through massed attack alone (just give a few MANPADs to deal with the VTOLicopters).

The RDA armament and numbers never made sense to me. They are too heavily armed to be generic company security guards like you see in real life. On other hand if they are indeed looking for a fight they brought wrong equipment for their stated purpose on Pandora.

Its like they are..... purpose designed to be a challenge to spear and bow wielding natives yet beatable using aggresive and brave tactics.

So? "Years before Jake Sully's arrival". Okay. Four years before Jake Sully's arrival. When the previous ship was on Pandora.

Maybe that ship will never get to make it back to Earth.

Because it ran out of fuel.

And vaporized the gundamechanimumangoes from orbit.

Hahahahahaha.

Well the problem is the ISV Venture Star does not have star trek impulse engines that can let you make a quick U-Turn at near light speed. Cameron insisted on having a "realistic" spaceship that uses antimatter based propulsion. I am not even sure if the ship has enough fuel to turn at all without running dry completely. They probably have only enough antimatter to slow down as they approach Earth. The real threat is the next ISV scheduled to arrive after the Venture Star. That ship is on its way but will take about 4 years to get to Pandora. That gives clanners enough to wipe out all RDA on Pandora before a ship comes to evecaute them.

The RDA starship will perform suppression of enemy air defense (SEAD) by incinerating (half of) Pandora's surface. Then with the aerospace reasonably secure, the shuttle can do its kamikaze run and blow up the incinerated remains of the mecha scum. Just to be sure.

Its a transport ship only though. Improvised tactics like dropping asteroids, using a shuttle as a bomber works on stone age natives who cant defend or shoot back. Against clanners RDAs options are 1 ) Sacrifice Pandora and their very expensive ship by turning it into a near light speed missile 2 ) Call the military for help.

[Ilya Muromets]

The RDA armament and numbers never made sense to me. They are too heavily armed to be generic company security guards like you see in real life. On other hand if they are indeed looking for a fight they brought wrong equipment for their stated purpose on Pandora.

Said company is setting itself up on another planet with massive, dangerous fauna and less-than-friendly natives (who are giants). That's not typically the job for the generic company security guards you see in real life.

[Shroom Man 777]

The dialogue explicitly state the radar. I remember seeing the radar screens go fuzzy when they entered the flying mountain ranges. Rest of their electronic equipment including radio worked perfectly fine though. Which is kind of odd seeing how radar and radio is interrelated. But technobabble does not have to be consistent.

If the technobabble is powerful enough to literally move mountains (and make them fly), well, the technobabble can do whatever it wants then.

The RDA armament and numbers never made sense to me. They are too heavily armed to be generic company security guards like you see in real life. On other hand if they are indeed looking for a fight they brought wrong equipment for their stated purpose on Pandora.

Its like they are..... purpose designed to be a challenge to spear and bow wielding natives yet beatable using aggresive and brave tactics.

I don't see how it's so nonsensible. They have several Hueys and a single C-130 (gunships and the Papa Dragon). They ended up being to put missiles on those, arguably to repel occasional attacks by hostile overgrown animals. The RDA mercenaries actively try to get more effective weapons, but limp-dicked science majors and bureaucrats on Earth and other non-assholes obstruct them.

It's not really confusing. Just imagine the mercenaries as Shep, and imagine them wanting to buy XYZ-weapons, but then Jimmy Cartner and Robert McNamara actively stymie them. So Shep has to make do with suboptimal stuff.

So? "Years before Jake Sully's arrival". Okay. Four years before Jake Sully's arrival. When the previous ship was on Pandora.

Maybe that ship will never get to make it back to Earth.

Because it ran out of fuel.

And vaporized the gundamechanimumangoes from orbit.

Hahahahahaha.

Well the problem is the ISV Venture Star does not have star trek impulse engines that can let you make a quick U-Turn at near light speed. Cameron insisted on having a "realistic" spaceship that uses antimatter based propulsion. I am not even sure if the ship has enough fuel to turn at all without running dry completely. They probably have only enough antimatter to slow down as they approach Earth. The real threat is the next ISV scheduled to arrive after the Venture Star. That ship is on its way but will take about 4 years to get to Pandora. That gives clanners enough to wipe out all RDA on Pandora before a ship comes to evecaute them.

I mean, what I'm trying to say is that there is already an ISV in orbit. The ISV that was there in the years before Jake Sully's arrival. I'm saying that instead of flying home, that ISV wastes its fuel by burninating the gundamechanimumangoes. So it can't go home.

It doesn't turn or anything. It's already there.

Its a transport ship only though. Improvised tactics like dropping asteroids, using a shuttle as a bomber works on stone age natives who cant defend or shoot back.

When the ISV uses its exhaust to burn the planet, the Klansmen's irradiated corpses can't defend or shoot back either.

Against clanners RDAs options are 1 ) Sacrifice Pandora and their very expensive ship by turning it into a near light speed missile 2 ) Call the military for help.

I was talking about the shuttle doing the bombing run while the ISV does the orbital burnination by engine which the milwankers fuck around with when talking about killing blue people but are strangely silent on when talking about killing mecha scum. I thought the shuttle was called the Venture Star, not the ISV. But the ISV is the Venture Star, my bad.

My point is that the ISV burns the planet from orbit using its exhaust. Then the shuttle can kamikaze on the Klansmen's irradiated corpses.

[Arachnidus]

While we're on the topic of dudes with advanced weaponry getting their asses kicked by ten foot tall blue people, I'd love to see a W40k+Avatar crossover. I laugh at the thought of the Adeptus Astartes going after something so trivial as a tribal species on a planet where everything wants to kill you for some odd reason.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Astartes? That's kind of overdone. Put Catachans on the planet.

"Ooo, a vacation!"

[Zor]

While we're on the topic of dudes with advanced weaponry getting their asses kicked by ten foot tall blue people, I'd love to see a W40k+Avatar crossover. I laugh at the thought of the Adeptus Astartes going after something so trivial as a tribal species on a planet where everything wants to kill you for some odd reason.

Fuck NO.

1-Its a curbstomp, a big curbstomp.
2-I have a developed a hatred for when people go off on the whole "Purge the Xenos" tyrade for anything not restricted to the grimdark confines of the Warhammer 40,000 Universe.

Zor

[OmegaChief]

To be fair, putting a regiment of Catachans down isntead would be a fair bit fairer, seeing as how the Na'vi could actually hurt them.

[Shroom Man 777]

Fuck it. Maybe we should have Space Russians send Space KGB advisors to Pandora. Then maybe the RDA will employ John McCain to bomb some Na'vi. Before the Space Russians train the Vietna'vi to use SA-2 Spaceline missiles to shoot him down. Then some Space Cuban interrogators will beat Space McCain up so he can't raise his arms over his head. Then the Vietna'vi can film him reading some shitty confession letter and throw him in a space tiger cage for years. Then the RDA loses the fucking war because of goddamn hippies and public outcry, and when the Space Americans return home they are called baby killers and get their faces spat on by protesters. Then the Vietna'vi turn communist and the Russians win! America fuck no! The HO CHI SULLY TRAIL!

EDIT:

Oh shit! Then the Vietna'vi would be the ones flying MiG-17s and shooting down shitty VTOL Space Hueys and Space Chinooks!

[Sarevok]

I don't see how it's so nonsensible. They have several Hueys and a single C-130 (gunships and the Papa Dragon). They ended up being to put missiles on those, arguably to repel occasional attacks by hostile overgrown animals. The RDA mercenaries actively try to get more effective weapons, but limp-dicked science majors and bureaucrats on Earth and other non-assholes obstruct them.

Actual radar guided missiles are lot more expensive than plain old optical or laser guided ones. Just compare the price of the radar guided hellfire vs the laser guided version of the Hellfire. Or compare it to a TOW for that matter. More importantly the RDA were supposed to bring weapons that would work on Pandora. So why would they bring missiles that 1 ) cost more 2 ) don't guide reliably in Pandora ?

Its like the limp dicked science majors wanted to be protected by security guards with over expensive weapons that wont work.

I mean, what I'm trying to say is that there is already an ISV in orbit. The ISV that was there in the years before Jake Sully's arrival. I'm saying that instead of flying home, that ISV wastes its fuel by burninating the gundamechanimumangoes. So it can't go home.

The RDA corporation had 12 ISVs. They never kept an ISV stationary at one place longer than loading / unloading and maintaince took. The ISVs were constantly shuttling in between Pandora and Earth carrying unobtainium and supplies. Considering the immense logisitical hurdles of mining ore in another star system even a single day of an ISV sitting idle would have costed RDA huge amount of money. So the chances of the clanners arriving the same day as an ISV arrives for scheduled supply drop and unobtainium pickup are rather low.

When the ISV uses its exhaust to burn the planet, the Klansmen's irradiated corpses can't defend or shoot back either.

Exhaust wont work against a planet. You have to use the ship itself as a light speed missile. This is a weapon of last resort though as you lose a very expensive ship plus the very source of unobtainium making manufacturing such ships in future impossible.

[Shroom Man 777]

I don't see how it's so nonsensible. They have several Hueys and a single C-130 (gunships and the Papa Dragon). They ended up being to put missiles on those, arguably to repel occasional attacks by hostile overgrown animals. The RDA mercenaries actively try to get more effective weapons, but limp-dicked science majors and bureaucrats on Earth and other non-assholes obstruct them.

Actual radar guided missiles are lot more expensive than plain old optical or laser guided ones. Just compare the price of the radar guided hellfire vs the laser guided version of the Hellfire. Or compare it to a TOW for that matter. More importantly the RDA were supposed to bring weapons that would work on Pandora. So why would they bring missiles that 1 ) cost more 2 ) don't guide reliably in Pandora ?

Its like the limp dicked science majors wanted to be protected by security guards with over expensive weapons that wont work.

Eh, who the fuck cares. They never explicitly stated what the missiles used for guidance and for all we know, the magic fields that levitate mountains into the fucking sky might have other magical abilities. (I mean, sure, Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez said that the shit messed up with their "radar", but does that mean it ONLY messes with radar? Should Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez have also gone on a Trek-style infodump talking about all the broad spectrum antibiotic effects of the flux vortex against sensors? Should she have given a detailed technical description of the missiles the VTOLs used, and how the various effects of weirdo vortexes affects them adversely, to satiate the fatties? Maybe while she's at it, she can also discuss the physics of interdimensional portals to Hell and Second Lifer necrometabolisms or whatever? She said "fucks up radars/whatever" in a casual statement.). What are the thermal effects of mountains flying anyway?

Also, how well would IR missiles work on creatures with body temperatures nowhere near that of jet exhaust heat? Can IR missiles lock on to birds or warm-blooded mammalianoids, for example? How easy is it to lock laser-guided missiles on fast moving dragonoids flying very close by?

But yeah, whatever. Those armchair milwank generals are right. Those VTOL helicopters would've made more sense if the missiles they used were sonar-guided variable geometry turboscramramfanjetprop-propelled MiG-36 Pacemakers or shit instead of those whatever AN/SPQSDN-69 bis missiles they used in the film that offends fatty military sensibilities or whatever. Radar missiles have too much calories in them.

I mean, what I'm trying to say is that there is already an ISV in orbit. The ISV that was there in the years before Jake Sully's arrival. I'm saying that instead of flying home, that ISV wastes its fuel by burninating the gundamechanimumangoes. So it can't go home.

The RDA corporation had 12 ISVs. They never kept an ISV stationary at one place longer than loading / unloading and maintaince took. The ISVs were constantly shuttling in between Pandora and Earth carrying unobtainium and supplies. Considering the immense logisitical hurdles of mining ore in another star system even a single day of an ISV sitting idle would have costed RDA huge amount of money. So the chances of the clanners arriving the same day as an ISV arrives for scheduled supply drop and unobtainium pickup are rather low.

I dunno. Jake Sully was on the planet (moon) for months and there, Sarevokerritch was offering him a trip home if he completed his mission in XYZ-months/weeks, wherein he could just ship back to Earth (without sitting on Pandora twiddling his thumbs and waiting for years for the next ship to arrive). They also managed to ship the human POWs in short order without waiting for years for the next ship to arrive. So this means that the ISV was hanging around.

So I think the ISV stays over Pandora for a short period of time? It's not like those two shuttles can haul all the mined unobtanium up to the ISV's cargo holds in XYZ-hours. Aside from changing personnel, bringing new equipment, and the ISV itself refueling (don't they use the gas giant for fuel?) or doing whatever, the ISVs do linger on Pandora for a period of time.

Exhaust wont work against a planet. You have to use the ship itself as a light speed missile. This is a weapon of last resort though as you lose a very expensive ship plus the very source of unobtainium making manufacturing such ships in future impossible.

If those blubbering milwanking vaginas can offer this as a suggestion to dealing with a bunch of hippie space cats armed with fucking spears, then I fail to see why this is so problematic against a bunch of gundamechanimumangoes sporting proper weaponry. What's the matter, the prospect of genocide not doing it for you anymore?

The very source of unobtanium making manufacturing such ships in future impossible? Tell me, how the did they manufacture the ISVs in the first place before going to Pandora? Because unobtanium stockpiles and reserves don't exist on Earth/wherever/lol? Because unobtanium is the only thing that can make the ISVs and is an irreplaceable resource, as opposed to just an expensive and very important (but not to the point of exclusivity or whatever) rock?

lol let's just throw an asteroid to destroy the gundamechanimumangoes with a small 'non-lethal' tunguska-level explosion

I wonder. Maybe the effects of flux vortexes are similar to that of those Minkiwinky whatever particles in those Gundamechanimumango animus that lets them justify the existence of their stupid fucking walking robots and FAT-FATs with stupid space swords and negative morningstraks.

Maybe these Klansmen in our randome altarnate realty hippotheticel senareo (RAR) will, if victorious, gradually develop their mechas to become REAL gundamechanimumangoes like in those Japanese animus. If they beat the RDA, when the Earth brings its military to Pandora years later, they may very well end up getting dropkicked by a bunch of gundamechanimumangoes doing Space Jiujitsu.

Or the Earth bring tanks and blow up the stupid mecha scum. Lol.

[Darth Hoth]

Shroom, perhaps it is intentional, but your passive-aggressive debating style does make it extremely difficult to see what, if anything, of substance it is that you are actually saying in between all the nonsense. It also probably makes people inclined not to even bother. Just a friendly pointer.

[Shroom Man 777]

Shroom, perhaps it is intentional, but your passive-aggressive debating style does make it extremely difficult to see what, if anything, of substance it is that you are actually saying in between all the nonsense. It also probably makes people inclined not to even bother. Just a friendly pointer.

My points:

1.) Just because all Michelle Rodriguez said was "radar" doesn't mean the flux vortex only affects radar exclusively. What, should her dialog be composed of Trek-style stupid infodump technobabbles giving complete technical specs on technoshit nobody cares about except for fatties? Also, how trackable are a bunch of animals to heatseeking missile warheads?

2.) The ISV was pretty available in the movie. Jake Sully was on the planet for months, and Quarritch said he could head home when his mission was complete (this took several weeks). If what Sarevok is saying is true, that the ISVs are mostly not on Pandora, then Jake Sully would've had to wait for YEARS for the next ISV to arrive. I, on the other hand, postulate that the ISVs linger for weeks/months while they load up the unobtanium shipment (using the shuttles to carry it little by little to space) while also refueling from the gas giant (wasn't this one of the ISV/shuttles' canon technical specs?).

3.) Milwanker shits talked shit about having the RDA use asteroids to Tunguska the Na'vi or having the ISV blow them up from orbit. Yet these options are not being discussed here. Why? Are these guys secretly a bunch of traitorous Mecha Maniac sympathizers (or Manchurian candidate-members of the Communist Party of America)? The HAB must be informed so the commissariat can review these peoples' ideological purity.

4.) This shit is fucking stupid, so I'm doing ridicules. It is intentional. And it's easy to see the point of my passive-aggressive shit, which makes ridicules of other people's active-regressive shit.

EDIT:

Either way, those Klanner infantry guys probably outnumber the entire human population on Pandora. So unless the RDA crashes its giant spaceship on Pandora to kill everyone and decimate the entire planet, the Klansmen win.

[Darth Hoth]

2.) The ISV was pretty available in the movie. Jake Sully was on the planet for months, and Quarritch said he could head home when his mission was complete (this took several weeks). If what Sarevok is saying is true, that the ISVs are mostly not on Pandora, then Jake Sully would've had to wait for YEARS for the next ISV to arrive. I, on the other hand, postulate that the ISVs linger for weeks/months while they load up the unobtanium shipment (using the shuttles to carry it little by little to space) while also refueling from the gas giant (wasn't this one of the ISV/shuttles' canon technical specs?).

Supposedly, they refuel the ISVs on-site, using an off-screen space station that makes all the tons of antimatter they need. I would not find it insanely unreasonable, myself, that this plant cannot quite keep up the pace if visits are frequent, so that limitation might also affect staying times.

On the other hand, if they have half a dozen ships or so flying shuttle traffic between Earth and Pandora, it should not be years between them, but ten months or so. Less, if all the dozen they have fly the same route and are spaced out (which makes economic sense). So he should not have to wait six actual years, in any case. Perhaps those were the terms of his contract? I only saw the film once, so my remembrance of the dialogue is unreliable.

3.) Milwanker shits talked shit about having the RDA use asteroids to Tunguska the Na'vi or having the ISV blow them up from orbit. Yet these options are not being discussed here. Why? Are these guys secretly a bunch of traitorous Mecha Maniac sympathizers (or Manchurian candidate-members of the Communist Party of America)? The HAB must be informed so the commissariat can review these peoples' ideological purity.

Hear! Hear! The enemies of the people must be purged out of our glorious Imperial proletariat! Smite the heretics! Purge the xenos! They're only good when dead, they're vermin as I said! Always remember: A brief life burns brightly!

More seriously, the option of orbital bombardment by asteroids was always silly. And while Earth can probably be induced over their sucky FTL comm to realign the uber laser that pushes the ISVs' sails and make it BDZ Pandora, that does not really help them.

Using Shep's idea of scratch-building kinetic impactors for orbital deployment might work, but they do not have the time for that in this scenario.

4.) This shit is fucking stupid, so I'm doing ridicules. It is intentional. And it's easy to see the point of my passive-aggressive shit, which makes ridicules of other people's active-regressive shit.

What active-regressiveness (whatever that means)? In this thread, or elsewhere?

[Sarevok]

Eh, who the fuck cares. They never explicitly stated what the missiles used for guidance and for all we know, the magic fields that levitate mountains into the fucking sky might have other magical abilities. (I mean, sure, Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez said that the shit messed up with their "radar", but does that mean it ONLY messes with radar? Should Michelle Vasquez Rodriguez have also gone on a Trek-style infodump talking about all the broad spectrum antibiotic effects of the flux vortex against sensors? Should she have given a detailed technical description of the missiles the VTOLs used, and how the various effects of weirdo vortexes affects them adversely, to satiate the fatties? Maybe while she's at it, she can also discuss the physics of interdimensional portals to Hell and Second Lifer necrometabolisms or whatever? She said "fucks up radars/whatever" in a casual statement.). What are the thermal effects of mountains flying anyway?

The point is any plain old TOW or Hellfire missile would have worked perfectly right inside the flux vortexes. Why would RDA opt for a missile that malfunctions instead ? Its either sheer incompetence or intentionally making their gunships from becoming immune to the Navi and local wildlife.

Also, how well would IR missiles work on creatures with body temperatures nowhere near that of jet exhaust heat? Can IR missiles lock on to birds or warm-blooded mammalianoids, for example?

Seekers that only home into hot spots are ancient. Imaging infrared seekers would work perfectly against living creatures.

How easy is it to lock laser-guided missiles on fast moving dragonoids flying very close by?

The British Starstreak is a laser guided SAM that can hit supersonic jets. Now Hellfire missiles are not designed for this role but even they should manage. The hellfire has been used against a Cessena once. Regarding tracking the creature automatic target tracking is common feature these days.

But yeah, whatever. Those armchair milwank generals are right. Those VTOL helicopters would've made more sense if the missiles they used were sonar-guided variable geometry turboscramramfanjetprop-propelled MiG-36 Pacemakers or shit instead of those whatever AN/SPQSDN-69 bis missiles they used in the film that offends fatty military sensibilities or whatever. Radar missiles have too much calories in them.

Easy question for you :

You have limited amount of material you can transport to guard civilians on a planet of hostile creatures. For whatever reasons you have to bring death dealing pseudo military gear. So what would you bring ? Shit that wont even work in local conditions ?

I dunno. Jake Sully was on the planet (moon) for months and there, Sarevokerritch was offering him a trip home if he completed his mission in XYZ-months/weeks, wherein he could just ship back to Earth (without sitting on Pandora twiddling his thumbs and waiting for years for the next ship to arrive). They also managed to ship the human POWs in short order without waiting for years for the next ship to arrive. So this means that the ISV was hanging around.

Perhaps you are right. My info on the Venture star came from the Pandorapedia website. Maybe they got something wrong. I got the official Avatar videogame lying around my room waiting to be played. It has an ingame encyclopedia with lots of details. I will get back to you if I find anything.

So I think the ISV stays over Pandora for a short period of time? It's not like those two shuttles can haul all the mined unobtanium up to the ISV's cargo holds in XYZ-hours. Aside from changing personnel, bringing new equipment, and the ISV itself refueling (don't they use the gas giant for fuel?) or doing whatever, the ISVs do linger on Pandora for a period of time.

Its actually antimatter powered on the return trip. While traveling from Earth it uses laser sails. Its a nice concept other than the movie giving it impossibly higher speeds that what it should be capable of.

The very source of unobtanium making manufacturing such ships in future impossible? Tell me, how the did they manufacture the ISVs in the first place before going to Pandora? Because unobtanium stockpiles and reserves don't exist on Earth/wherever/lol? Because unobtanium is the only thing that can make the ISVs and is an irreplaceable resource, as opposed to just an expensive and very important (but not to the point of exclusivity or whatever) rock?

We don't know how space travel worked before unobtainium. Maybe Avatar 2 will show a prologue about how humans first reached Pandora.

[Shroom Man 777]

Supposedly, they refuel the ISVs on-site, using an off-screen space station that makes all the tons of antimatter they need. I would not find it insanely unreasonable, myself, that this plant cannot quite keep up the pace if visits are frequent, so that limitation might also affect staying times.

On the other hand, if they have half a dozen ships or so flying shuttle traffic between Earth and Pandora, it should not be years between them, but ten months or so. Less, if all the dozen they have fly the same route and are spaced out (which makes economic sense). So he should not have to wait six actual years, in any case. Perhaps those were the terms of his contract? I only saw the film once, so my remembrance of the dialogue is unreliable.

Maybe it was another ISV, sure. Or maybe that same ISV that brought him in was lingering for a while, bumming about while refueling and loading up on unobtanium while doing weeks-long preflights and preparations for another extended return run back to home/Earth.

Either way, the point is that ISVs aren't that rare and one can readily be available to blow up the Klansmen.

Hear! Hear! The enemies of the people must be purged out of our glorious Imperial proletariat! Smite the heretics! Purge the xenos! They're only good when dead, they're vermin as I said! Always remember: A brief life burns brightly!

More seriously, the option of orbital bombardment by asteroids was always silly. And while Earth can probably be induced over their sucky FTL comm to realign the uber laser that pushes the ISVs' sails and make it BDZ Pandora, that does not really help them.

Using Shep's idea of scratch-building kinetic impactors for orbital deployment might work, but they do not have the time for that in this scenario.

For the proletariat! Sieg Zeon! Class antagonisms, bourgeois pigdogs! Working-class proletariats! Etcetera!

If what you said about the anti-matter space station is true, then they can just do some shit and jerry-rig a fucking photon torpedo to chuck at the Klansmen.

I'm just saying that those ISV-kamikaze and asteroid shits were mentioned at the old Avatar thread, like where the milwankers stroked themselves with MiG-36 Facemakers until their cocks grew neutronium callouses. Whilst pissing other people off over their dickless genocidal tendencies. Yet now, when faced with gundamechanimus, the options these fucking pussies talked about using on hippie space cats become unusable on the gundamechanimumangoes due to some limp impotent excuses. Excuses! How do we get any results from these excuses? What a bunch of worms! Where the fuck are your fucking graphs? Pussies!

What active-regressiveness (whatever that means)? In this thread, or elsewhere?

I'm just saying that their points can be easily mocked. And that I relish in doing so, in my special way. Hey, if others prefer to call the other side a bunch of "cocknozzle douchedonkey retardoshit fuckpamer" or whatever, then I guess I'm doing the same with my styles.