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With all the talk about Enterprise around here lately, I was thinking about all the complaints of the NX-Enterprise not looking 'TOSy enough' or 'being an Akiraprise'. So, how would you redesign it, cosmetically and technologically, keeping in mind the context of the series?

Srelex wrote:With all the talk about Enterprise around here lately, I was thinking about all the complaints of the NX-Enterprise not looking 'TOSy enough' or 'being an Akiraprise'. So, how would you redesign it, cosmetically and technologically, keeping in mind the context of the series?

Something along the lines of the UESN ships in the starfleet museum would feel better contextually.

A fairly good fan made design crept up on the internet before "Enterprise" aired, when the rumors of it looking like the Akira crept up. It had the basic shape of the Akira, but with a much cleaner, TOS-style saucer, and TOS-style nacelles. I'm trying to find it.

You mean like this?

Oh jesus christ that looks unbelievably awesome.

That is pretty neat, though still don't like it as the ENT ship.

Am I the only one who thought that the logical precurse to the Ent in ToS should have been a Daedalus Class Starship?

No, I bet every fat nerd with the Star Trek Encyclopedia thought the same thing.

Sadly, Daedalus-class looks like dogshit and would never work as a hero ship, just like all the fanmade nonsense on Starfleet Museum.

Stark wrote:You mean like this?

Close to that. The main difference was the nacelles were pointed upward, like the NX-class in the series. If I find it I'll post it up.

Not that I was fond of using the Akira as a template for the NX-class. I'd agree something like the Daadeuls, or the Starfleet museum stuff would have been cooler. However, if they were going to, they could have at least made it look a little closer to TOS.

I'm with Stark, unfortunately; the Daedalus looks like something out of a kid's show.

Perhaps to give the ship more of an individual appearance, rather than just a differently shaped Connie, would giving it the texture and decal of a space shuttle, so to speak, have worked? Am I making sense?

Yeah, I found another one with a dish on the front that looked a bit different, but it was the same kind of thing. Are the NX nacelles angled?

Stark wrote:No, I bet every fat nerd with the Star Trek Encyclopedia thought the same thing.

Sadly, Daedalus-class looks like dogshit and would never work as a hero ship, just like all the fanmade nonsense on Starfleet Museum.

Well, that rendition has very little in the way of textures. If they could have made it look even more utilitarian, it could have worked, but of course everything nowadays have to be so ridiculously flashy that utilitarian designs are not allowed even in a fucking prequel show. But still, with a completely different attitude than what Enterprise actually had a design somewhat similar to the Daedalus-class could have worked, although of course not looking exactly like it does in that fan made rendition.

The problem with the Daedalus is the sphere and the engineering hull below it - it's just not a very sleek or exciting layout. If they went a bit more industrial it might work, or if they flattened the sphere or moved the engineering hull aronud a bit. It would have been interesting to see it in a semi-realistic style instead of the sleek white hulls we always get.

Some of the the stuff at Starfleet Museum isn't half bad. Problem is most of the stuff that actually works is essentially slightly modified Constitutions. The Daedalus would work nicely continuity-wise except that it looks (deliberately, I suspect, at the time) too primitive, the same way the Akiraprise looks too modern. Something based on the Constellation saucer (a design that always looked a lot more rough hewn than the Constitution to me) using TOS Constitution style nacelles for the top and dropping the bottom pair might have worked (or not).
And as it doesn't show up on the Wall of Fame in TMP it would naturally not be called 'Enterprise'.

I like the Star Trek Museum, but it does come down to a lot of it either looking like a modified Constitution class or a typical sci-fi starship with warp engines strapped on.

Knife wrote:I like the Star Trek Museum, but it does come down to a lot of it either looking like a modified Constitution class or a typical sci-fi starship with warp engines strapped on.

The biggest problem is there's really only two ways you can go without making people go, "WTF is this? I wanted a Federation ship!" That's either going with a rocket like we have now (that Cochran was using anyway) and the constitution class. Given these two extremes, it's no wonder the designs sort of deviate from these only a little. We never really see any major differences in Star Trek ships other than the occasional moving of some parts, addition of some others, or just removing a piece like the engineering hull. The biggest design deviation came from the 29th century where starships started to take on a non-traditional look, and even then it's impossible to know when this all started.

A lot of people criticise it for that but I kinda like it. One of my favourite images from that site is the one which shows the design evolution of half a dozen cruisers from the Klingons and Federation, so for the Klingons it's D1 through to D7 class cruisers, and the Federation side has a bunch of conjectured classes which culminate with the Constitution. It's nice to see an actual design evolution over about a century. So yeah, the ships look 'samey' but for me that makes the setting come alive.

EDIT this is the picture I'm talking about:

Personally I think the show should have been called Pioneer.

Stofsk wrote:A lot of people criticise it for that but I kinda like it. One of my favourite images from that site is the one which shows the design evolution of half a dozen cruisers from the Klingons and Federation, so for the Klingons it's D1 through to D7 class cruisers, and the Federation side has a bunch of conjectured classes which culminate with the Constitution. It's nice to see an actual design evolution over about a century. So yeah, the ships look 'samey' but for me that makes the setting come alive.

Its all fun and games until you read their hilariously awful fanfiction about their designs (and how basically humans rule all etc). Its really quite sad.

I'm with Stark re the Daedalus-class. Its an awful looking piece of shit, and would never be chosen as a hero ship by any producer in their right mind.

What's especially baffling about it is the fan obsession with this space turd - its a single obscure model in the background of a handful episodes, for chrissakes. Honestly, why the fixation? It'd be like the fandom stroking themselves to a future Federation where the next generation ship is Crusher's medical starship from All Good Things.

Vympel wrote:I'm with Stark re the Daedalus-class. Its an awful looking piece of shit, and would never be chosen as a hero ship by any producer in their right mind.

What's especially baffling about it is the fan obsession with this space turd - its a single obscure model in the background of a handful episodes, for chrissakes. Honestly, why the fixation? It'd be like the fandom stroking themselves to a future Federation where the next generation ship is Crusher's medical starship from All Good Things.

In the interests of partially retracting an earlier statement. I don't think it should have looked exactly like the Daedalus. Anything other than a lazy Akira-knock off would have worked better frankly. If the Daedalus did appear on screen, it'd have been cool if it was in the final episode, as the replacement for the NX-class.

Vympel wrote:What's especially baffling about it is the fan obsession with this space turd - its a single obscure model in the background of a handful episodes, for chrissakes. Honestly, why the fixation? It'd be like the fandom stroking themselves to a future Federation where the next generation ship is Crusher's medical starship from All Good Things.

Probably because pretty much every early-Federation (i.e. latter half of the 22nd century) ship mentioned in TOS or TNG was either canonically or apocryphally a Daedalus. It's the class that's widely regarded, not the design per se.

As for the NX, they should have gone with the season 5 design that's been floating round for the last year or so and, of course, called it something than Enterprise.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Vympel wrote:What's especially baffling about it is the fan obsession with this space turd - its a single obscure model in the background of a handful episodes, for chrissakes. Honestly, why the fixation? It'd be like the fandom stroking themselves to a future Federation where the next generation ship is Crusher's medical starship from All Good Things.

Probably because pretty much every early-Federation (i.e. latter half of the 22nd century) ship mentioned in TOS or TNG was either canonically or apocryphally a Daedalus. It's the class that's widely regarded, not the design per se.

As for the NX, they should have gone with the season 5 design that's been floating round for the last year or so and, of course, called it something than Enterprise.

I'll agree to that. I really don't have that much fondness for the over all design, only that all pre TOS and post TOS "lore" says "Oh yes! The Daedalus! That was the real work horse of the Federation before the Connies came out!"

Its more the fact that there is a lot that establishes the class as being important and significant. If they came out with a good pre TOS design and called it a Daedalus, I might like that more.

As it is, I still say one of the main things that doomed Enterprise from the start, was that they named it ENTERPRISE. For FSM's sake, there has NEVER been any mention of an Enterprise before TOS. Trying to steal name cred by making a prequel ship named for a ship that comes after you just turned my guts from day one. Again if you do a show that takes place before TOS, have it's hero ship named anything other then 'Enterprise'.

Skylon wrote:In the interests of partially retracting an earlier statement. I don't think it should have looked exactly like the Daedalus. Anything other than a lazy Akira-knock off would have worked better frankly. If the Daedalus did appear on screen, it'd have been cool if it was in the final episode, as the replacement for the NX-class.

Yeah, the characteristic Daedalus layout of sphere/hull/nacelles would have worked, but the model the donged up in TOS was complete ass. Its a toilet roll attached to a balloon. Everything from the lack of detail to the proportions to the horrible neck design sucks.

I think if they had the dish hanging out the bottom of the sphere and had the hull in-line behind the sphere (and the sphere of similar volume to the current saucers in proportion, rather than just LOL MAKE SPHERE OF SAME DIAMETER) with the nacelles peeking over the top it'd look fine. You can add all kinds of details (like the impulse vents on either side of the sphere, the bridge on top, etc) which would tend to soften the shape.

I'm pretty sure "Daedalus class" is purely a post-TOS invention. I don't even think it showed up in TAS. However ugly it may be, that design came out of the TNG/DS9-era art department, and even then the connection between "Daedalus" and that particular design is never made on screen.