Whatever happenned to British patriotism?

[Eternal_Freedom]

The idea of British patriotism seems to have dissapeared of late. Now we have endless talk about being "international" and "multicultural"

It's now considered by some to be strange to know our national anthem, to have a Union flag in your house. I asked my school if they were going to have a Union flag flying for the Queen's birthday, the deputy headmaster was uttterly stunned; the idea had never occurred to him

Why is this? And why are other countries, notably France and the US, have such a more visible "patriotic" element in the population (case in point, playing the national anthem at even fairly minor sports events, having at least two US flags in most school classrooms and so on)

And when do you think British patriotism became, not exactly taboo, but not encouraged?

(PS to mods, I wasn't sure whether this should have been here or in History, please move it or keep it as necessary)

[Keevan_Colton]

It depends a great deal on your idea of what constitutes patriotism. Is it tradition, trinket and chants...or working towards making your country a better place?

Also, since you've mentioned the national anthem, do you know the whole of God Save the Queen? If so you might be able to guess why some British people aren't too keen on it.

[Phantasee]

Substance is more important than form. Does flying a flag or singing the anthem make you a better citizen?

[Korgeta]

I don't mind god save the queen though I preferred 'Jerusalem' myself.

Flying the Union Jack isn't the problem, it's the 'English' flag. Somewhere or somehow we have become very senstive to the needs of the minority to the point some argue (and one person argued at me, who told me to take down a small flag at work) that St Geroges flag can be seen as aggressive racism towards others. Apparently councils across the country see british patriotisim or even st geroge's flag as somewhat offensive to anyone who isn't white british.

And I have no idea why, it's bad enough some of us have given up st geroge's flag to the BNP or the english defence league.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I know singing a song or waving a flag doesn't make you a better citizen, and I agree that all of "god save the Queen" is pretty crap, but it would be nice to see, and it doesn't really take much effort

and incidentally, I was hoping/looking for a discusion about why it's gone rather than patriotism in general

[Dartzap]

I know singing a song or waving a flag doesn't make you a better citizen, and I agree that all of "god save the Queen" is pretty crap, but it would be nice to see, and it doesn't really take much effort

and incidentally, I was hoping/looking for a discusion about why it's gone rather than patriotism in general

I imagine its due to the massive global political shift in the last century. Our world visibility has vanished to nothing, our influence minimal. Only the top guys get to tootle the patriotic trumpet.

We can still be proud to whinge about everything, though!

[Vendetta]

British patriotism was co-opted by racist cunts and football hooligans.

[General Zod]

I know singing a song or waving a flag doesn't make you a better citizen, and I agree that all of "god save the Queen" is pretty crap, but it would be nice to see, and it doesn't really take much effort

and incidentally, I was hoping/looking for a discusion about why it's gone rather than patriotism in general

I don't see the point in putting on a show of patriotism with no real meaning behind it. Do you really want to emulate the teabaggers that badly?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I have no clue who you are referring to so I can't answer that

EDIT: And who said anytihng about there being no meaning behind it? I mean it, I love this country

[General Zod]

I have no clue who you are referring to so I can't answer that

. . . Sarah Palin and her bunch of Republican rejects?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Dude, I'm not American, I don't follow American news or politics, and I don't give two shits about Sarah Plain or the Republican party

I'm British, which is why I was asking about British patriotism, referring to Union flags (the correct name of the Union jack) and so on. References to the yanks are likely to go completely over my head

[General Zod]

Dude, I'm not American, I don't follow American news or politics, and I don't give two shits about Sarah Plain or the Republican party

I'm British, which is why I was asking about British patriotism, referring to Union flags (the correct name of the Union jack) and so on. References to the yanks are likely to go completely over my head

Then take religion as an example. It's the difference between the guy in church who's praising Jeebus at the top of his lungs and making a scene where everyone can see him and the guy in the back who's just there because he's trying to follow his religion's tenets. It's all show and no substance.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Now that makes more sense

[FSTargetDrone]

Why is this? And why are other countries, notably France and the US, have such a more visible "patriotic" element in the population (case in point, playing the national anthem at even fairly minor sports events, having at least two US flags in most school classrooms and so on)

Incidentally, here in the US and Canada, both the US and Canadian National Anthems are performed when the Toronto Blue Jays (the only current Canadian MLB team) visit a US ballpark and when Toronto plays at home. Same goes for basketball (1 Canadian team) and hockey games when visiting each other's country.

[Todeswind]

Why is this? And why are other countries, notably France and the US, have such a more visible "patriotic" element in the population (case in point, playing the national anthem at even fairly minor sports events, having at least two US flags in most school classrooms and so on)

And when do you think British patriotism became, not exactly taboo, but not encouraged?

I'd say it has a lot to do with the end of the Empire.

[Falarica]

I mean it, I love this country

Hear hear, glad to see i'm not the only one that loves the UK still.

I think other countries are more visibly patriotic because it is drummed into them at school. All the British history I was taught at school was 1066, the Tudors, WW1 and WW2 and I did a history GCSE. Nothing about the British Constitution, nothing about the history of our democracy. If you don't really know anything about your country how can you feel patriotic towards it?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think you might be on to something there. My history education, where it featured Britain at all, seemed to be almost embarassed about our history, especially the Imperial days.

Also, I suppose the British tradition of down-playing things mean people just dont do it, except at royal weddings and coronations (I can't ait to see Prince William's wedding, four-day weekend yahoo)

[Stark]

You seem pretty confused. You accept that stupid songs and flags are meaningless, but want to see them. You sound pretty insecure.

It doesn't help that 'patriotism' has a pretty bad reputation from the last few decades. People who fly their national flags are almost exclusively lunatics, at least in AU.

[StarshipTitanic]

I think you might be on to something there. My history education, where it featured Britain at all, seemed to be almost embarassed about our history, especially the Imperial days.

Britain's imperial history is embarrassing from a human rights perspective, at least. What's there to be proud of? You yourself didn't achieve even the good stuff, whatever that was.

Also, I suppose the British tradition of down-playing things mean people just dont do it, except at royal weddings and coronations (I can't ait to see Prince William's wedding, four-day weekend yahoo)

People like pageantry. Americans are already becoming enthralled by the wedding and it has no significance to American politics whatsoever.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I accept they're meaningless in terms of making you a better citizen, but there is something strangely reassuring about them

[Prannon]

I tend to distrust really visible patriotism. Being an American myself, most of the really visible patriotic displays that I ever see always emphasize the traditions, image, and ideal identity of the nation at the expense of variety and diversity. As has often been pointed out on this very board, the US is such a diverse country that claiming any sort of tradition, image, or identity as uniquely American will leave out a lot of people. That's saying nothing about how the actual health of the nation is often sacrificed in the name of catchy jingoism.

All of that has nothing to do with British patriotism, except to say that it may not necessarily be a bad thing that it's a bit subdued. As others have said, it's better to express love for your country by making it a better place, not to put out the flag and scream loudly about how much you love it and then insist that anyone who doesn't do the same must not be British.

[TC27]

British patriotism was tied closely in with the Empire - now the Empire has gone we struggle to find an another vehicle in which we can express and celebrate our patriotism.

Considering our population size and resources we should not feel bad at all about being a second tier power and we still have considerable influence in the world but we always compare ourselves badly to the power and prestige of our Imperial past.

It is also true that the obvious patriotic symbols have being hijacked by the far right and people believe displaying them identities them as an extremist. Ironically I find that ethnic minorities are often the most patriotic Brits.

[hongi]

Are British republicans considered traitors?

[Stark]

I accept they're meaningless in terms of making you a better citizen, but there is something strangely reassuring about them

Press the full stop button, please.

Regardless, you are a working example of why this 'reassurance' is empty and vapid emotional manipulation. You don't know why, but you miss having your country talked about in a positive way. You feel like you should be more patriotic for some reason you don't understand.

How old are you?

[TC27]

Are British republicans considered traitors?

No.