OC Republican continues to reinforces racist stereotype

[Crossroads Inc.]

From yahoo.news

y SHAYA TAYEFE MOHAJER, Associated Press – 1 hr 56 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – A Southern California Republican Party official was under fire Saturday after allegations she sent an email that included an altered photo depicting President Barack Obama as an ape.

An e-mail reportedly sent by party central committee member Marilyn Davenport shows an image, posed like a family portrait, of chimpanzee parents and child, with Obama's face artificially superimposed on the child. Text beneath the photo reads, "Now you know why no birth certificate."

Davenport, when reached by The Associated Press, said she would provide a written statement with her response, but several hours later she had not issued one.
The alternative newspaper OC Weekly first reported the story, and was told by Davenport that the e-mail was "just an Internet joke." She also asked the Weekly, "You're not going to make a big deal about this are you?"

Republican Party of Orange County Chairman Scott Baugh told The Associated Press on Saturday that he wants an ethics investigation into the incident.
"It's just highly inappropriate, it's a despicable message, it drips with racism and I think she should step down from the committee," said Baugh.
Baugh said it could be several days before it's known whether the ethics committee will agree to investigate Davenport.

At the very least, Baugh said, Davenport should be apologizing for what she's done rather than attacking whoever leaked the email to media, referring to an email Davenport sent after the story broke calling on "the coward" who leaked the email to come forward.

Davenport, a tea party activist, represents the 72nd Assembly District in Orange County on the central committee.
She represents Brea, Placentia, Fullerton and portions of other Orange County cities to the county committee tasked with fundraising, campaigning and debating policy for the Republican Party.

The fact that after this has happened again and again, you STILL get these people who seem not to realize what happens the instant you e-mail something boggles me. The fact that she sends this image out and then says "you won't make a big deal about it?" baffles me. Of course now that it IS a big deal, we will get the inevitable "Well it was just a joke" followed by the "I'm sorry IF I offended anyone!" comments.

Really, the teaparty goes on and on about how it isn't made up by a bunch of intolerant white people, and yet you keep getting stuff like this.

[Eleas]

Gotta say, kudos to Scott Baugh for not trying to sugar-coat the issue.

[Alphawolf55]

IDK, I don't get the whole ape=automatically racist thing, George Bush was called an ape so many times in the last 11 years it stopped being funny but it wasn't ever racist. Just because Obama is half black doesn't all of a sudden make the insult a racist one by definition every time it's thrown.

[Mr Bean]

IDK, I don't get the whole ape=automatically racist thing, George Bush was called an ape so many times in the last 11 years it stopped being funny but it wasn't ever racist. Just because Obama is half black doesn't all of a sudden make the insult a racist one by definition every time it's thrown.

That's because George Bush was not in any part African American, while Barack Obama can claim 50% of that title, and traditionally (As in we have over a hundred years of tradition) AA's were depicted as apes, called savages and the like. There is a well established history of blacks being called gorillas/apes and chimps by racists in America.

[Alphawolf55]

IDK, I don't get the whole ape=automatically racist thing, George Bush was called an ape so many times in the last 11 years it stopped being funny but it wasn't ever racist. Just because Obama is half black doesn't all of a sudden make the insult a racist one by definition every time it's thrown.

That's because George Bush was not in any part African American, while Barack Obama can claim 50% of that title, and traditionally (As in we have over a hundred years of tradition) AA's were depicted as apes, called savages and the like. There is a well established history of blacks being called gorillas/apes and chimps by racists in America.

That still doesn't change the fact that we've made calling our Presidents apes as well. Thus there are political insults and racist insults, just because one happens to overlap with the other doesn't mean it's always the latter and it's stupid to claim so.

[Mr Bean]

That still doesn't change the fact that we've made calling our Presidents apes as well. Thus there are political insults and racist insults, just because one happens to overlap with the other doesn't mean it's always the latter and it's stupid to claim so.

You might have some kind of case where it not for the simple fact that our current President one Barack Hussein Obama has spent the past three years under veiled and clear racists attacks. This would not be the first time, nor the 41st time but the 401st racially charged attack.

[Alphawolf55]

True but alot of those were clear cut, shamans and shit. Calling someone an ape or a monkey these days is just a common way to calling someone a buffoon. Just because in the past it's has racist overtones doesn't mean everytime it's levied against a black person it's automatically racist, especially when it's been such a common insult at a white President for the last decade.

I mean would saying that Obama loves Government handouts also be racist? Yeah it's a typical Republican insult to Democrats that they love to have the Government give out money to undeserving people and shit, but it's also a stereotype that black people love welfare, so would it be racist for the Republicans to say that to Obama?

[Metahive]

True but alot of those were clear cut, shamans and shit.

What exactly is this supposed to mean? That they were worthy targets of racist slurs?

Just because in the past it's has racist overtones doesn't mean everytime it's levied against a black person it's automatically racist, especially when it's been such a common insult at a white President for the last decade.

Especially because it comes with that sort of historical racist baggage it's most inappropriate to be used in this fashion.

I mean would saying that Obama loves Government handouts also be racist? Yeah it's a typical Republican insult to Democrats that they love to have the Government give out money to undeserving people and shit, but it's also a stereotype that black people love welfare, so would it be racist for the Republicans to say that to Obama?

Not even trying, eh?

[Alphawolf55]

What exactly is this supposed to mean? That they were worthy targets of racist slurs?

No that there's no connection to it other then the racist one. Calling Obama a witch doctor or a shaman has no root other then a racist one, just like a fried chicken joke or a pimp joke, they're racist by design and they only have roots in racist circles. On the other hand, calling a politician an monkey or ape has been an acceptable political insult for at least the last decade, it's had nothing to do with race or anything.

Especially because it comes with that sort of historical racist baggage it's most inappropriate to be used in this fashion.

That doesn't change the fact that we've obviously changed the context and situations we're willing to use the insult. If it's by design a racist insult, was it inappriopiate to call Bush that? We wouldn't call a white person the n word or a s word and think it's okay just because they're not part of the discriminated against group, so is calling someone a monkey or ape in general just not cool because of the inherently racist overtones?

Not even trying, eh?

Not anymore then you are at giving a real rebuttal. Answer the question, saying that Democrats love government handouts is a classic political smear maybe not accurate but considered acceptable, but if you were to say that black people love government handouts that would be clear cut no doubt racist and completely unacceptable. So if it's not okay to make ape jokes about Obama because of existing racial stereotypes regardless of political precedent, is it racist to say that Obama loves Government hand outs?

[Phantasee]

Trying to find alternative meanings doesn't really help because you always have the most obvious meaning staring you in the fucking face. It's called a connotation, it needs context to make it clear. Divorcing the monkey/ape imagery from the fact the President is half African is an incredibly weak attempt to cover her ass. I don't think she needs help with that, so maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

Mr Bean: Obama's 50% African, not African-American.

[The Romulan Republic]

Trying to find alternative meanings doesn't really help because you always have the most obvious meaning staring you in the fucking face. It's called a connotation, it needs context to make it clear. Divorcing the monkey/ape imagery from the fact the President is half African is an incredibly weak attempt to cover her ass. I don't think she needs help with that, so maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

Mr Bean: Obama's 50% African, not African-American.

It is actually a legitimate point. I don't really get either why a non-racist insult automatically becomes racist when used against a black person. If you can call George Bush an ape, you can damn well call anyone an ape.

What makes it harder for me to believe a non-racist motive in this case is that she linked her little "joke" to birther crap as well. That and her whole "You're not going to make a big deal about this are you?", which suggests she knew exactly how people would take this.

[Phantasee]

The same reason calling a white guy "boy" and calling a black guy "boy", if you're a white guy. If you're too stupid to understand historical context and the fact that words have connotations and denotations and that they can be different, then you should shut the fuck up.

[Metahive]

It is actually a legitimate point. I don't really get either why a non-racist insult automatically becomes racist when used against a black person. If you can call George Bush an ape, you can damn well call anyone an ape.

If GWB had instead been called a "nigger", "kike" or a "fag" would that mean they'd now have become acceptable insults towards blacks, jews and homosexuals? This logic isn't exactly airtight.

Words like these are simply never used in a vacuum, context, historical, racial or otherwise matters.

[Alphawolf55]

It is actually a legitimate point. I don't really get either why a non-racist insult automatically becomes racist when used against a black person. If you can call George Bush an ape, you can damn well call anyone an ape.

If GWB had instead been called a "nigger", "kike" or a "fag" would that mean they'd now have become acceptable insults towards blacks, jews and homosexuals? This logic isn't exactly airtight.

Words like these are simply never used in a vacuum, context, historical, racial or otherwise matters.

That is completely different and you know it. There is no usage of these words except in a racist way that hits a certain group, (well except the first one, and that's a hotly contested issue and used in a very limited manner). Calling people a monkey or an ape, has been a classic insult used against multiple people of multiple race, it just happened to be used especially against one group.

But let me ask you, are you saying that it as wrong to call George Bush a monkey/ape then? Because if so, then at least you're being consistent which I respect.

[Serafina]

It's quite simple:
Obama is called an ape due to his race.
Bush was not called an ape due to his race, but for other reasons.

Now why can you conclude that? Because there is a long history of comparing black people to apes in order to degrade them. There is no such history for white people.
Calling a black person an ape does therefore has racist implications, such implications do not exist for people of other races.

[Metahive]

That is completely different and you know it. There is no usage of these words except in a racist way that hits a certain group, (well except the first one, and that's a hotly contested issue and used in a very limited manner). Calling people a monkey or an ape, has been a classic insult used against multiple people of multiple race, it just happened to be used especially against one group.

Especially against one group in a purely racist manner. Also, you missed the point. Would those terms have lost their racist/bigotted connotations if used against a white, straight and non-jewish person? Your whole spiel here is that because GWB has been likened to an ape (due to his perceived lack of intelligence and vaguely ape-ish facial features) the word has been "cleansed" of its racist connotations, isn't it?

But let me ask you, are you saying that it as wrong to call George Bush a monkey/ape then? Because if so, then at least you're being consistent which I respect.

It's an insult to call him an ape, just not a racist one.

[Alphawolf55]

Especially against one group in a purely racist manner. Also, you missed the point. Would those terms have lost their racist/bigotted connotations if used against a white, straight and non-jewish person? Your whole spiel here is that because GWB has been likened to an ape (due to his perceived lack of intelligence and vaguely ape-ish facial features) the word has been "cleansed" of its racist connotations, isn't it?

It's not just George Bush though, calling someone a monkey or ape in this day and age has a popular usage of basically calling them a buffoon, it's been this way in popular culture for around a decade or two, the same hasn't happened to those other words if in 50-100 years the popular culture meaning of those words completely change like the way gay has, then you maybe you'd have a point but they haven't and that's why the comparison fails.

Also I never said that the word has lost all racist connotation, it can be used in a racist manne no doubt about it. I'm saying that there is now two usage of the word. A racist one, and a more tame one directed at one's intelligent. I'm saying it's how the term is used that determines which group that is, not the subject. Just because the word has had racist connotation doesn't mean if used against a black person is always being used for racist reasons. I mean if I was blind and didn't know the guy I was talking to was black but called him a monkey because he was acting stupid, if that's not racist why is it racist if I call him it for the exact same reason but was informed 2 minutes ago that he was in fact black.

It's an insult to call him an ape, just not a racist one.

Come on don't weasle out of the question, we know it's an insult and that it's not racist but is it okay to call George Bush an ape at all? If the word ape and monkey inherently has a racist connotation, is it alright to call him one even if he isn't black? Should the word be treated with the same taboo that those other words that you claim have equal racial connotations. I mean if the word ape as an insult is inherently racist, then the term should be off the table completely, shouldn't it?

It's quite simple:
Obama is called an ape due to his race.
Bush was not called an ape due to his race, but for other reasons.

So wait, you admit that someone can be called an ape for reasons other then his race, but also claim that it's impossible that Obama was called an ape for any of those reason. So why can't someone's reason calling Obama an ape be similiar to those reasons used to call Bush one? What fundamental law of nature stands in opposition to this?

[Serafina]

So wait, you admit that someone can be called an ape for reasons other then his race, but also claim that it's impossible that Obama was called an ape for any of those reason. So why can't someone's reason calling Obama an ape be similiar to those reasons used to call Bush one? What fundamental law of nature stands in opposition to this?

None.
But it fits perfectly with the usage of that insult by right-wingers, with their generally racist nature and with the constant racist attacks on Obama. It is therefore the most likely reason why this specific insult was used.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Can I just jump in to say this...

If this was NOT meant to be racist, and indeed meant to insulant Obama is a 'bafoon', Then, in the history of the Far Right, where are the other uses of OTHER liberals being called or refferanced as 'monkey' or 'ape'.

Because if we wish to say that this is NOT loaded with a racist context, then by that measure we should see the Right using "Ape" all over.

That is why it is hard to believe they are being anything OTHER then racisit. If Nancy Palosi was shown eatin watermellons, or if Al Gore was shown with a bone through his nose, or ANY OTHER DEMOCRAT shown as an Ape... Then maybe, MAYBE we could say it isn't meant to be racist.

But when the ONLY places we see these being used is ONLY on Obama, well, what other conclusion can we reach?

[Alphawolf55]

So wait, you admit that someone can be called an ape for reasons other then his race, but also claim that it's impossible that Obama was called an ape for any of those reason. So why can't someone's reason calling Obama an ape be similiar to those reasons used to call Bush one? What fundamental law of nature stands in opposition to this?

None.
But it fits perfectly with the usage of that insult by right-wingers, with their generally racist nature and with the constant racist attacks on Obama. It is therefore the most likely reason why this specific insult was used.

So you admit you have no proof? I mean I will admit there is a very good chance that alot of times when it's used it's for racist reasons, but that doesn't make it so every time. Alot of it could just be a kind of sling back 'Oh call our guy a monkey for 8 years, well take your own medicine' or an infinite number of other reasons. Wouldn't the best option then rather then assume it's always racist no matter what, to take each situation as a stand alone? Like this situation most likely racist not because of the insult itself but because she's also a birther.

[Phantasee]

Thanks for ignoring me, fuck face.

Trying to find alternative meanings doesn't really help because you always have the most obvious meaning staring you in the fucking face. It's called a connotation, it needs context to make it clear. Divorcing the monkey/ape imagery from the fact the President is half African is an incredibly weak attempt to cover her ass. I don't think she needs help with that, so maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

[Serafina]

So wait, you admit that someone can be called an ape for reasons other then his race, but also claim that it's impossible that Obama was called an ape for any of those reason. So why can't someone's reason calling Obama an ape be similiar to those reasons used to call Bush one? What fundamental law of nature stands in opposition to this?

None.
But it fits perfectly with the usage of that insult by right-wingers, with their generally racist nature and with the constant racist attacks on Obama. It is therefore the most likely reason why this specific insult was used.

So you admit you have no proof? I mean I will admit there is a very good chance that alot of times when it's used it's for racist reasons, but that doesn't make it so every time. Alot of it could just be a kind of sling back 'Oh call our guy a monkey for 8 years, well take your own medicine' or an infinite number of other reasons. Wouldn't the best option then rather then assume it's always racist no matter what, to take each situation as a stand alone? Like this situation most likely racist not because of the insult itself but because she's also a birther.

What's your proof that it is NOT racist?

My evidence is outline above:
It has a history as an racist insult, Obama has a history of being insulted for his race, right-winger have a history of racism and they are not calling any non-black Democrats apes either*.
Your retort is "oh it's just a comeback for Bush". Frankly, i don't recall Bush being called an ape prominently or frequently, so that theory is already weak. When compared to the facts above, it just doesn't stand.

*thanks to Crossroads for that one

[Metahive]

It's not just George Bush though, calling someone a monkey or ape in this day and age has a popular usage of basically calling them a buffoon, it's been this way in popular culture for around a decade or two, the same hasn't happened to those other words if in 50-100 years the popular culture meaning of those words completely change like the way gay has, then you maybe you'd have a point but they haven't and that's why the comparison fails.

Why was Darwin depicted like an ape? Because he linked humans and apes together in his works. Why was Bush called an ape? Because he's dumb and has a face like a chimp. Why is Obama called an ape? Well, he's not stupid, his work isn't related to apes/monkeys and he doesn't particularly resemble one of our primate brethren either. Leaves only the color of his skin.

It's that easy.

Also I never said that the word has lost all racist connotation, it can be used in a racist manne no doubt about it. I'm saying that there is now two usage of the word. A racist one, and a more tame one directed at one's intelligent. I'm saying it's how the term is used that determines which group that is, not the subject. Just because the word has had racist connotation doesn't mean if used against a black person is always being used for racist reasons. I mean if I was blind and didn't know the guy I was talking to was black but called him a monkey because he was acting stupid, if that's not racist why is it racist if I call him it for the exact same reason but was informed 2 minutes ago that he was in fact black.

Wanna' know what I'll call you from now on? An invertebrate, for only someone without a spine could possibly hope to bend over backwards like that without breaking every single bone in his body, you paramecium.

Come on don't weasle out of the question, we know it's an insult and that it's not racist but is it okay to call George Bush an ape at all? If the word ape and monkey inherently has a racist connotation, is it alright to call him one even if he isn't black? Should the word be treated with the same taboo that those other words that you claim have equal racial connotations. I mean if the word ape as an insult is inherently racist, then the term should be off the table completely, shouldn't it?

It's inherently racist when used against black people due to its historical connotations, you mentally deficient slug. Denial isn't going to make your point any stronger or your word-twisting acrobatics any more impressive.

So wait, you admit that someone can be called an ape for reasons other then his race, but also claim that it's impossible that Obama was called an ape for any of those reason. So why can't someone's reason calling Obama an ape be similiar to those reasons used to call Bush one? What fundamental law of nature stands in opposition to this?

When someone likens a black person to an ape it's automatically invoking racist imagery because the history is there, no matter how much you wave your hands about it.

[Alphawolf55]

Thanks for ignoring me, fuck face.

Trying to find alternative meanings doesn't really help because you always have the most obvious meaning staring you in the fucking face. It's called a connotation, it needs context to make it clear. Divorcing the monkey/ape imagery from the fact the President is half African is an incredibly weak attempt to cover her ass. I don't think she needs help with that, so maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

I've already covered your point. I'm not trying to find alternative meanings, there are alternative meanings that have been used plently of times. Now is this lady most likely racist? Probably, but that's due to her being a birther, a fact I'll admit I didn't see to the second read through, but it doesn't change the fact it's not inherently a racist insult by itself.

Also do you mind me asking where you live? Because your belief that boy is also racist when used by a white guy towards a black guy always, makes me feel like you might not live in anywhere urban or may deal with an older age group because that term is used affectionately and no one takes any racist connotation around where I live all the time. I mean I understand the racist background of the term, it just isn't really thought about much these days.

My evidence is outline above:
It has a history as an racist insult, Obama has a history of being insulted for his race, right-winger have a history of racism and they are not calling any non-black Democrats apes either*.
Your retort is "oh it's just a comeback for Bush". Frankly, i don't recall Bush being called an ape prominently or frequently, so that theory is already weak. When compared to the facts above, it just doesn't stand.

Proving it's not racist, wouldn't that be proving a negative? Also I never said that the specific reason it's used, I said it could be that or any other infinite reasons.

Additionally, are you fucking kidding me? Bush wasn't called an ape prominently or frequently? Google image George W Bush, and one of the related searches is "George W Bush Monkey"

[Steven Snyder]

I would expect this from republicans, they are racist and the teabaggers among them even moreso.

Alphawolf, I won't dogpile you here but just a word of advice. You aren't fooling anyone here, the people that you are 'debating' are razor sharp, which is overkill to seeing your argument for what it really is. Your best move here is to admit your a racist, and fully support the remark, at least then you appear consistent and honest.