Elizabeth Smart, raped? (and Abortion issues)

[Ted]

Saw the news conference on CNN last night.

They said they would not comment on any physical abuse, leading me and my dad to think that she might have been raped.

If she was, and is pregnant, she'd become one of the youngest mothers in Utah because of that, thanks to the wonderful Shrub and Asscroft , who've made partial birth abortions illegal, and are soon gonna make all abortions illegal.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Curious, what is this story?

[Hamel]

Hmmmm.

Didn't hear about this.

[Stormbringer]

They said they would not comment on any physical abuse, leading me and my dad to think that she might have been raped.

Or it's entirely possible they simply hit the kid. That's as likely as rape.

If she was, and is pregnant, she'd become one of the youngest mothers in Utah because of that, thanks to the wonderful Shrub and Asscroft , who've made partial birth abortions illegal, and are soon gonna make all abortions illegal.

Oh great here comes another anti-american rants. Do you know what a partial birth abortion is? It's nothing less than the murder. They were right to ban it.

Nothing short of murder

Whatever they want to do, I doubt Bush or Ashcroft would try to overturn Roe vs Wade. It's too much of a polarized issue for a president with sagging approval ratings to tackle. If Roe v Wade is overturned it's not going to be by Congress, it's going to be by the Supreme Court.

So don't worry, abortion will remain legal in a country you don't even live in.

[Sea Skimmer]

Its possibul they just don't know. Obviously she's been more then slightly screwed up in the head.

[Montcalm]

What i heard on the news is that jerk and his bitch wanted a child,thats why they kidnapped her.

[Stormbringer]

What i heard on the news is that jerk and his bitch wanted a child,thats why they kidnapped her.

Yeah, they seemed to want a kid/cult follower. It seems to me that in that sort of situation beating the kid sounds much more likely.

Not to mention that's what physical abuse usually means as opposed to sexual abuse (which would be rape among other things).

[Kuja]

Nothing short of murder

....oh...my god......

[Stormbringer]

Nothing short of murder

....oh...my god......

Yeah. There's a reason only the most extreme pro-choicers support those.

[RedImperator]

I'm sure you've heard it before, Ted, but I'll say it here: you're a fucking idiot. Let me count the ways:

1. Partial birth abortion, by any rational definition of "life", is murder. It isn't scraping a handful of fetal cells with no nervous sytem out of a uterus. It's dialating the cervix, partially delivering the fetus, then removing the brains and crushing the skull. By definition, it can only be performed in the second trimester or later, and is used on fetuses that would be viable were the delivery completed.

2. The bills passed in both houses define partial-birth abortion so specifically that it would affect 2,200 abortions a year, out of more than one million per year performed in the United States. The sponsor of the Senate version, Rick Santorum, has admitted it will have little to no effect on the number of abortions actually performed in the United States. It's an attempt to outlaw the use of a barbaric medical procedure for convenience abortions (the Senate version allows excptions when the mother's life is in jeopardy).

3. John Ashcroft has absolutely nothing to do with this bill. The Justice Department will be responsible only for enforcing it, should it survive judicial review.

4. Roe v. Wade cannot be overturned by anything less than another Supreme Court ruling or a Constitutional amendment. Considering the Senate version of the bill comes with a nonbinding resolution in support of Roe v. Wade that passed 52-46, I doubt you'll see one of those anytime soon. Abortion is not going away in the United States, for better or worse. What this bill does is legally end the ridiculous and patently illogical claim that life begins at birth, which the abortion-rights lobby has clung to just as dogmatically as the pro-lifers have claimed life begins at conception.

5. Elizabeth Smart is 15 years old. She would hardly be the youngest mother in Utah if she were raped and she were pregnant, neither of which you have even the slightest whisper of proof for. By the way, in addition to being an idiot, you're an utterly dispicable asswipe for using her story to make an uninformed, pointless attack on Bush, instead of just starting a fucking thread about the partial-birth abortion ban.

[Nathan F]

*grumble*
I would say some stuff, but RedImperator said pretty much what I was going to say, no need to repeat it.

[Hamel]

PAB is murdah murdah. I've not heard of a legitmate case where it was needed, either.

[Durandal]

1. Partial birth abortion, by any rational definition of "life", is murder. It isn't scraping a handful of fetal cells with no nervous sytem out of a uterus. It's dialating the cervix, partially delivering the fetus, then removing the brains and crushing the skull. By definition, it can only be performed in the second trimester or later, and is used on fetuses that would be viable were the delivery completed.

I agree with the spirit of the ruling, but I do think that abortions should be extended through the second trimester or maybe half-way through the pregnancy. While this only affects a very small percentage of abortions, I still don't think that there is enough evidence to justify making second-trimester abortions illegal. There's no question that third-trimester abortions should be banned, though.

[Stormbringer]

I agree with the spirit of the ruling, but I do think that abortions should be extended through the second trimester or maybe half-way through the pregnancy. While this only affects a very small percentage of abortions, I still don't think that there is enough evidence to justify making second-trimester abortions illegal. There's no question that third-trimester abortions should be banned, though.

I could be wrong but it's the second trimester where the brain begins to develop. To kill it then could only be called murder. No matter how many abortions it affects it's murder flat out.

[RedImperator]

There's some question over the legal language of both verisons. There's some reproductive-rights types who are claiming it's vague enough to be extended to other types of second-trimester abortions. I hope that's not the case, because it would be a shame to waste all this time and political capital on something that's going to get shot down by the courts. My position on second trimester abortion isn't all that solid, because I haven't seen enough of the science yet, but there's not a chance it will get through judicial review if it's not very specifically confined to partial-birth.

[Stravo]

Actually i thought that I read that the guy wanted another wife not child and if thats the case I am almost certain she was raped. The thought of that little girl being raped by that bastard for nine months...I have no idea what the parents must be going through.

The guy was a religious nut who used to preach to the homeless and god told him in a vision to seek another wife and he fell for her while being a handy man. Which BTW what is it about the Smart family that they seemed to have an army of "handymen" working arounnd the house??? They couldn't hire a contractor or something to do the work that these strange drifters woudl do??? There was another suspect in the case that worked as a hnadyman in the house.

[Ted]

You cannot deny that Bush is anti-abortionist.

If he gets his way, then she would have to carry that child.

And the media would've reported as to her being raped or not. The fact that they wont discuss ANY physical harm gives substantial weight to the possiblity that she was raped.

[RedImperator]

Actually i thought that I read that the guy wanted another wife not child and if thats the case I am almost certain she was raped. The thought of that little girl being raped by that bastard for nine months...I have no idea what the parents must be going through.

If it makes you feel any better, he's probably got a few chums on his cellblock who feel the same way you do with considerably more forceful ways to make their opinions known than posting on a message board.

[RedImperator]

You cannot deny that Bush is anti-abortionist.

If he gets his way, then she would have to carry that child.

And the media would've reported as to her being raped or not. The fact that they wont discuss ANY physical harm gives substantial weight to the possiblity that she was raped.

Listen, you fucking smegma stain, we all know Bush's opinions about abortion. That doesn't change the fucking fact that you're using the Smart family's personal tragedy as thinly veiled excuse to launch an anti-Bush rant that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ELIZABETH SMART. Jesus Q. Christ on a rocket sled, what the fuck is the matter with you? You don't like the bill in Congress, start a Goddamned thread about THAT and leave Elizabeth Smart out of it. Show some fucking repsect.

[Col. Crackpot]

Abortion debate aside, that is one sick fuck.

Did you hear, that he believes "God" told him to take her as a wife!

[Montcalm]

most religious fanatic say that

[Kelly Antilles]

Mormon?

[Knife]

Mormon?

The family is, notice in any interview with the family or someone connected with the case that it is held in front of the Federal Heights LDS ward.

A blitz of reports over the last day has said everything from she was raped (more than probable) to she was 'married' to the fucker up in the hills. And all ready the 'stockholms' therory is being toted all over the place too. Blah. Any way you put it, poor kid.

[Col. Crackpot]

Mormon?

according to MSNBC he broke away from the Mormon church in the late 90's and well, went farther out into jesus land

[Kelly Antilles]

Mormon?

according to MSNBC he broke away from the Mormon church in the late 90's and well, went farther out into jesus land

There is something further out than Mormon?

There sure are some sick fuckers out there.