California- The Pedophile State?

[amigocabal]

In his dissent in Michael M. v. Superior Court of Sonoma County, California Supreme Court Justice Stanley Mosk noted that, in 1872, the age of consent was 10 years. Michael M., 25 Cal.3d 608 at 617 (Cal. Sup. Ct. 1979) (J. Mosk, dissenting)

What were the reasons that lawmakers thought a 10-year-old girl was capable of consenting to sexual intercourse? Did society consider sex with such young people to be socially acceptable? While child labor was common at the time, I find it preposterous that men were fine with other men having sex with their 10-16 yr. old daughters.

[Sea Skimmer]

Arranged marriages would take place at that kind of age, which was probably the basis for original law. Personally I'm a bit surprised an age of consent law even existed in the 1870s.

[LaCroix]

Amigo, you are looking at this through our modern 'lense'.

This is life expectancy in the USA.


These were times where you'd start a apprenticeship at the age +/- 6 years, and after 5-7 years you were a fully learned craftsman. Add a one year of journeymanship, and you could settle as MASTER. So you had 11-13 year olds who were seen as fully grown men, and masters of their trade. And it was quite usual that they were married shortly after finishing their apprenticeship.

So when you read a story from the past where they talk about girls and apprentices/journeymen having something going on, remember - these kids were 10-12 years old, not in their early twenties, as you imagine it.

If you were a peasant, you'd be married as soon as possible. Like Skimmer said, the fact that they actually restricted this to "at least 10 years or older" is a step that shows how preogressive California was.

[D.Turtle]

I would like to see some evidence for those claims. Life expectancy was mostly so low because lots of children died very early. If they survived the first few years, people would live for quite some time.

Edit: In fact, a short google search shows that median age of marriage was 26 for men and 22 for women in the US in 1890.

And this image, sums it up:

[Norseman]

Edit: In fact, a short google search shows that median age of marriage was 26 for men and 22 for women in the US in 1890.

And not only is that somewhat low, but similar figures have remained steady across the western world. The idea of women marrying at 12 and having children at 16 is a myth. Most women took longer to mature because they didn't have steady access to food, likewise most men needed time to reach puberty and to be able to earn a living.

As for apprenticeships... First of all it generally starts at the age of 9-12 and ends in around seven years yes. However you are hardly a full blown master yet, not least because the local guilds are not going to accept you before there's an opening. Moreover most males were not considered fully grown before they were around 25, even if majority was between 16-21 years of age. This is once more a result of bad nourishment, since it took a long time to reach full size.

Arranged marriages were not consumated when the price was 10, or 12, or even 14 necessarily. Usually under an arranged marriage the bride would remain at her parents home untill she was considered a woman, and only then be sent to her husband. Or else she would live with her husband, but he would keep his hands to himself untill she was considered "proper". Proper was less an age mind and more if she looked like a woman. Since most men weren't and aren't pedophiles this wasn't really a problem.

[amigocabal]

Edit: In fact, a short google search shows that median age of marriage was 26 for men and 22 for women in the US in 1890.

And not only is that somewhat low, but similar figures have remained steady across the western world. The idea of women marrying at 12 and having children at 16 is a myth. Most women took longer to mature because they didn't have steady access to food, likewise most men needed time to reach puberty and to be able to earn a living.

I think this idea comes from the upper classes, where women and men could live off their inheritances and not have as much problems supporting children when they themselves are barely out of childhood. Indeed, a Jewish king had fathered a child at 14 years old. Compare 2 Chron. 36:5 with 2 Chron. 34:1

Of course, being a king, he would clearly be able to support children at the age of 14.

[LaCroix]

Sorry, I posted very late. Seems I got some things really messed up. I concede all points.

[The Yosemite Bear]

mind you my great grandmother was forced to use a marriage broker in her barely teens because her parents had died in a mining accident and it was that or sex slavery to support herself and her brothers and sisters....

[Vashon]

Rough times. What did she do, advertise for a husband? If so, considering the times, damn good man for being willing to take her up on the offer.


One of my ancestors had a fun situation. Not bad but interesting.


Essentially, the man basically offered some pigs for a wife but before he did he simply went straight to her and asked if she would like to be his wife.


No dating or really much of an introduction other than name exchange. She took him up on the offer. He seemed a bit better than dirt fucking poor and she had a few nice things to pawn off if need be. Besides, she was 19 and horny back in ye olden days so....


The funny part? IIRC what my granny told me, they hadnt evenvdone the ceremony before he introduced his four young kids from his previous marriage.

They were wearing threadbare cloths. Rags. So she took her fine linen(and other clothes. She had farely nice dresses and such) cut em up and made the kids some clothes.

No complaints or nothing. Just shrugged and did it. She literally just jumped into the first arms that offered and daddy approved of and we she discovered the extra. She just rolled with it.

This occured in Deep South pre1930s.

But more on topic, Im guessing most men liked Women with Breast. And the ability to mostly SURVIVE sex and pregnancy. There is a cold and brutal reason why pedophilia is uncommon. It also likely is one darker reason why girls sexually mature faster. Other than that, your parents were likely to die before you were grown. Having somebody that gave a shit about you is real nice.