Handcuffed suspect shoots himself in squadcar

[Mr Bean]

So says the police

JONESBORO, AR (KAIT) – Two Jonesboro police officers are on administrative leave after a suspect reportedly shot himself while handcuffed in a patrol car.

Chavis Chacobie Carter, 21, of Southaven, Mississippi, died of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, according to police records.

According to the police report, Carter was a passenger in a pickup truck that was stopped just before 10 o'clock Saturday night on Haltom Street.

Officer Keith Baggett said while he searched the vehicle, Officer Ron Marsh questioned and searched Carter. He reportedly found "some marijuana" and several new plastic baggies on Carter.

According to the report, Officer Marsh ran Carter's information through dispatch and learned that he was wanted on a warrant out of DeSoto County, Mississippi.

After confirming the warrant, Baggett said Marsh had Carter "exit the patrol unit, placed him into handcuffs, searched him a second time then placed him into the back seat of the patrol unit."

While he and Officer Marsh walked back to his patrol unit, Officer Baggett said a car passed and then he heard "a loud thump with a metallic sound." At the time he believed the vehicle had run over a piece of metal on the road.

After questioning and releasing the other two men, Officer Marsh reportedly returned to his unit while Officer Baggett said he prepared to leave the scene. He then heard "several thumps" on his trunk and saw Officer Marsh motioning for him.

Officer Marsh reportedly said Carter had shot himself.

The two officers opened the rear passenger side door and found Carter in a "sitting position slumped forward with his head in his lap." Officer Marsh said there was a large amount of blood on Carter's shirt, pants, seat and floor. He also said Carter's hands were still cuffed behind his back. A small caliber handgun was reportedly found beside him.

Seeing that Carter was still breathing, Officer Marsh radioed for an ambulance and a supervisor. Carter was taken to St. Bernards Regional Medical Center where he later died of his injury.

Officers Baggett and Marsh are on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

Okay lets review, handcuffed suspect in the back of a police squad car, who ten minutes before calls his girlfriend tells her he's going to be arrested and he'll call her from jail somehow keeps a gun hidden through two patdowns and manages to pull the gun to shoot himself in the temple in the back of the squad car despite having behind the back cuffs on and being locked into the seat.

The only good part of this story is that the cops were instantly put on leave, we are awaiting the investigation but I'm going to predict this is the next news story the media is going to turn into a circus now. There's already a CNN interview with the suspects mother

[Kamakazie Sith]

If you don't do a proper pant down you can miss full size pistols...nevermind the compact ones. During training we place blue guns in places not normally searched and they are missed all the time by multiple officers.

[White Haven]

Hmm. Why are metal-detector wands not used to augment or direct patdowns? They seem to be quite commonplace in...basically any secured facility ever, whenever anyone's being checked for weapons there. Why not in the field? It would seem to make hiding ewapons far more difficult.

[Terralthra]

If you don't do a proper pant down you can miss full size pistols...nevermind the compact ones. During training we place blue guns in places not normally searched and they are missed all the time by multiple officers.

Sure, but how many of them can you get to with your hands cuffed behind your back, and then maneuver so as to shoot yourself in the head?

[Sea Skimmer]

All you'd have to do is point the gun up in your hands, and lean your head back. The ballistic analysis will be key here.

[Highlord Laan]

If you don't do a proper pant down you can miss full size pistols...nevermind the compact ones. During training we place blue guns in places not normally searched and they are missed all the time by multiple officers.

Never mind the whole "cuffed and in the back seat thing." Guy must have a reincarnation of Houdini. At least he didn't empty a magazine into his chest and toss himself off a bridge, right?

[Agent Fisher]

I've never had to do a pat down in the field, but I've trained for weapon searches and yeah, it's impressive where you can hide a weapon and it gets completely missed. Just cause you think, 'well, no one would put a pistol there'.

And Highlord, I've dealt with plenty of cuffed people, they can be pretty damned bendy. And you don't need to put the gun to your head to shoot yourself in the temple.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If you don't do a proper pant down you can miss full size pistols...nevermind the compact ones. During training we place blue guns in places not normally searched and they are missed all the time by multiple officers.

Sure, but how many of them can you get to with your hands cuffed behind your back, and then maneuver so as to shoot yourself in the head?

Depends on the person. I've seen suspects cuffed behind the back reach up and scratch their temple.

Never mind the whole "cuffed and in the back seat thing." Guy must have a reincarnation of Houdini. At least he didn't empty a magazine into his chest and toss himself off a bridge, right?

Have you ever been handcuffed before?

[Kamakazie Sith]

All you'd have to do is point the gun up in your hands, and lean your head back. The ballistic analysis will be key here.

Exactly. However, it'd be pretty fucking stupid to decide to shoot a handcuffed prisoner. Of all the ways to murder a prisoner they choose one of the worst ways to do it.

[Simon_Jester]

I'd like to hear the testimony of those other two men the cops grabbed and released. And, yeah, the forensics.

[Zaune]

I have to agree with Kamikaze Sith here. Why fake something this complicated and unlikely when you could simply plant a gun on the guy after shooting him and claim you acted in self-defence?

[Simon_Jester]

You never know, they could be idiots.

Haven't we all heard "world's stupidest criminal" stories? Sometimes truth in stories like this turns out to be stranger than fiction. I'm not going to flip out and start demanding the Arkansas cops' heads on pikes or anything. But I'm definitely not ruling out that they decided to just up and shoot someone in the head after he... I don't know, insulted one of the guy's mothers?

[Stormin]

Maybe the cop was just going to tazer the guy in the temple and accidently pulled his gun and use that!

[Sea Skimmer]

Thinking about it a bit, I really have to wonder if this guy wasn't actually trying to get the gun off himself and ditch it inside the car knowing he'd be in serious trouble if he carried it into a jail, and accidentally shot himself in the process.

[Agent Fisher]

Certainly wouldn't be the first time a suspect tried to stash something in the backseat of a cruiser.

[Sephirius]

Thinking about it a bit, I really have to wonder if this guy wasn't actually trying to get the gun off himself and ditch it inside the car knowing he'd be in serious trouble if he carried it into a jail, and accidentally shot himself in the process.

There was a case of this in NYC(?) a few years back- it made the news because the person in question had it tucked into his waistband and was trying to ditch it- One could say he was 'behind the ball'.

[Irbis]

Thinking about it a bit, I really have to wonder if this guy wasn't actually trying to get the gun off himself and ditch it inside the car knowing he'd be in serious trouble if he carried it into a jail, and accidentally shot himself in the process.

Wouldn't most methods of hiding the gun have barrel pointing... down, not up though?

Basically, he would need to have it hidden in very bizarre way, barrel up, pointed at head, not chest (which would be more natural if hidden in pants), trigger snatching at something somehow...

Waiting for inevitable explanation of 137 likely hiding places that would produce such a result.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Well if he's handcuffed at an odd angle, the gun could have just turned in his hand while he was trying to get a grip on it.

[Grumman]

I don't know about the hiding spot, but he could easily have been looking down past his shoulder to try to see what he was doing.

Maybe he thought he could shoot the handcuffs off.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well if he's handcuffed at an odd angle, the gun could have just turned in his hand while he was trying to get a grip on it.

Yeah, all kinds of things could happen while handling it that way, and I would tend to guess this would have been a fairly small handgun to have remained concealed. Its not likely to be say, a Desert Eagle anyway.

[Solauren]

Having been handcuffed, thumbcuffed, leg-cuffed, restrained by ropes, and a variety of other methods, I need to say something here.

My sister's boyfriend through most of high school was a wanna-be cop, and owned the above retraints, and our friends used to make bets on how long it would take someone to do various things while so restrained, as well as who could hide what on themselves. (We had a ninja/harry houdini/wise ass thing going, not 'street cred' or anything like that)

I have literally had my hands secured by handcuffs at the small of my back, and taken folded pocket knives and other objects of various sizes out of my shoes, socks, front pants pockets. A few of my thinner, more flexiable friends were able to do some more impressive things.

I was also able to get my hands down under my ass, down my legs, over my feet, and into my lap. And if you know what you are doing, it's possible to pick hand-cuffs while they are in the small of your back. (His hand-cuffs were cheap, so I make no claim I could pick regulation police hand-cuffs, and it's been a long time anyway...)

The idea that the deceased in this instant could have concealed a small firearm and gotten it out while handcuffed in the back set of a police cruiser is not far fetched. It's also possible that he found one someone else had stashed there.

In fact, the only way would could figure out to restrain someone that really limited their mobility was a combination of hand-cuffs at the front in front of the stomach, arm restraints going behind the back (and tight), and leg restraints. This effectively 'locks' the subjects hands and arms in place, and prevents them from running.

That's probably why correction facilities do the 'hand and leg cuff' routine. It's the only way to make sure someone is fully restrained.

[Kamakazie Sith]

A video of a reconstruction done by Jonesboro PD.

http://www.kait8.com/category/240189/vi ... Id=7609548

As you can see...pretty damn easy.

[Beowulf]

Is it standard procedure to leave cuffs loose enough that they can manage to go halfway up the forearm?

[Losonti Tokash]

Who is actually investigating this? Is it the Jonesboro PD? If so, what's even the point?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Is it standard procedure to leave cuffs loose enough that they can manage to go halfway up the forearm?

I assume you're talking about the female. Handcuffs can only close so tight before you've run out of notches. If you're talking about the male then handcuffs are only applied so tight to ensure that you don't cause extreme pain to the subject. Tight handcuffs can be very painful to a person handcuffed behind the back sitting in a police car with a cage.

Who is actually investigating this? Is it the Jonesboro PD? If so, what's even the point?

The FBI is investigating it. The PD is conducting their own investigation. The video was created not for investigation purposes but to show that it is feasible that a handcuffed individual could reach a concealed weapon and use it.

EDIT - Regardless of the feasibility of this alleged incident the forensics should tell all.