Dr Who Season Finale

[LadyTevar]

It just completed. Poll is up.

[LadyTevar]

Pardon me... I need to go wash the tears off my face now.

[DarkSilver]

It was a good mid-season finale.

The Ponds farewell...

I hate to say it, it was time for them to go. But they were sent off in a good and interesting way.

I only feel for the Doctor when he tells Brian what happened to his son and daughter-in-law . . .

[weemadando]

A nice idea, but how about they just throw the angel mythology further down the well?

How did the fucking Statue of Liberty turn into an Angel?

HOW DID NO ONE FUCKING NOTICE THIS?

How many times did they violate the line of sight rules and have angels staring at each other down hallways or all in the same room?

The Pond's going was all well and good, but it just was so poorly handled as an episode as a whole and recycled yet more villains.

I cannot countenance this.

[Haruko]

I felt that they were playing with new ideas and not caring about the "rules" for these Angels established in the first episode featuring them. After all, we had a bunch of statues that weren't even Weeping Angels, so we just have the species, whatever it is capable of, not confined to a certain statue. And how do they get in certain statues anyway? For anyone not intimately familiar with the series and not having seen previous episodes, this would be their first introduction to the angel statue alien concept.

[Riquende]

Meh. Hopefully the end of a downward trend.

[Crazedwraith]

So the grand half season finale. (fucking americanised scheduling shit)

-Oh. God another starting narration! That's like three episodes in a row. Find another fucking plot device.
-crap, its full on-noir shit? Getting old quickly here.
- you got to be kidding me is fucking right. The statue of liberty is an angel? How does it move? How so there a time when nobody at all is looking at the statue of liberty?
-Ok, i have to admit, i'm getting wrapped up in this. Despite River's appearence and the hokey doctor has a book with the story of the episode in.
-Amy states the obvious that they can just go back in the TARDIS to get him. aside from PLOT CONTRIVANCE
-And the future can't be changed if you know about it. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE. That is the opposite of sense making. I guess... paradox reapers will show up again?
-Yes and Rory's grave is there. Are they going to kill him <I>again.</i>
-why does river not care they are killing her father?
-confirmation the Doctor has actively been erasing his own records. Oh and the cheesy title drop again.
-oh you fucking tease. Amy + Rory paradox survive. Then he sees his grave stone and just dissapears. And they can't take the tardis back because of... plot contrivance again. What a load.
-ok, why am i feeling slightly emotion over this contrivance? Makes no sense.

[J Ryan]

People actually liked this dross?

To me this seemed like a whole episode devoted to the idea, of what if the Statue of Liberty was a weeping angel? Well I'm sorry but it stretches disbelief far too far for even Doctor Who. No body notices that the Statue of Liberty took a walk and managed to walk over Manhattan with no one seeing her? Is she now a Ninja? Also pretty sure she's made of metal where all the other Angels have been stone (and they have always been Angels in the past not just statues in general).

But by far the biggest issue, was the fact in their last outing it was decided that if you capture the image of an Angel, it becomes an Angel itself. Please tell me what object in New York City has had it's photo taken more often than the Statue of Liberty?

[2000AD]

That was seriously bad. The Weeping Angel of Liberty made no sense and had no reason to even exist in the plot, but enough people are moaning about that.

The ending makes absolutely no sense either. OK, I'll accept you can't go back to New York or paradox due to timey-wimey-ball (let's see how long till the next episode in New York); but you know Amy and Rory aren't in any immediate danger as the gravestones say 80+ years old. So go back a year later, land on the other side of the country and send them a letter inviting them to LA for a day at the beach, see the sights in Hollywood and then back to the Tardis to go back to their own time!

And again with splitting the season in half, why bother?

[Alkaloid]

Best use of the Angels since they were first introduced, sadly thats just not saying much. Also the SOL Angel was retarded and the children just an unnecessary attempt to make the angles creepier. They are perfectly creepy enough if you use them like you did for the first few minutes, continue to indicate the audience is an observer capable of freezing the angels and for god sake remember to apply the line of sight rule you intolerable hacks!

Do you not know how suspense works? If you can turn off the source of the suspense any time you damn well please because its more convenient for you writing wise all of the suspense goes the fuck away. And if you write a scene where two people, madly in love, desperately want to look each other in the eye while discussing ones voluntary but arguably vital suicide but can't because if they do they will literally never see each other again and/or die, and you can not make it at least somewhat dramatic then I really think you should just stop writing and have a good hard think about what you're doing with your life..

Also fuuuuuuck River Song.

On the other hand, I pretty sure it has previously been established that there are some places the tardis can't go because time isnt quite right there, and an abnormally large concentration of temporal predators hanging around fucking shit up seems as good a reason for that as any to me.

[Alkaloid]

Actually, that audience observer thing. I take it back. A bit more thought and I realised that instead of the writers of this episode remembering and including one of my favourite aspects of the original they simply forgot the angels are only statues when directly observed and thought it was only when the lights were on instead.

[Lord Woodlouse]

So the grand half season finale. (fucking americanised scheduling shit)

-Oh. God another starting narration! That's like three episodes in a row. Find another fucking plot device.
-crap, its full on-noir shit? Getting old quickly here.
- you got to be kidding me is fucking right. The statue of liberty is an angel? How does it move? How so there a time when nobody at all is looking at the statue of liberty?
-Ok, i have to admit, i'm getting wrapped up in this. Despite River's appearence and the hokey doctor has a book with the story of the episode in.
-Amy states the obvious that they can just go back in the TARDIS to get him. aside from PLOT CONTRIVANCE
-And the future can't be changed if you know about it. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE. That is the opposite of sense making. I guess... paradox reapers will show up again?
-Yes and Rory's grave is there. Are they going to kill him <I>again.</i>
-why does river not care they are killing her father?
-confirmation the Doctor has actively been erasing his own records. Oh and the cheesy title drop again.
-oh you fucking tease. Amy + Rory paradox survive. Then he sees his grave stone and just dissapears. And they can't take the tardis back because of... plot contrivance again. What a load.
-ok, why am i feeling slightly emotion over this contrivance? Makes no sense.

Plot contrivance? They've banged on about "fixed points" in time for years now. Paradoxes compounded by potential paradoxes, as in the city of New York and its colony of Angels, actually makes more sense than most of the other "fixed points".

Anywho, I enjoyed the episode. It worked dramatically for me, even if there are a number of plot holes regarding the Angels themselves. The Statue of Liberty thing was obviously a little bit of an indulgence but it wasn't actually that central to the plot, it was just a big visual spectacular. That Angel could just as easily been any other Angel in terms of narrative.

[Dartzap]

I think that dropping 2 parters from this series was a really bad move. Everything has been so rushed, or condensed, its all been a mess, really.

[Crazedwraith]

Plot contrivance? They've banged on about "fixed points" in time for years now. Paradoxes compounded by potential paradoxes, as in the city of New York and its colony of Angels, actually makes more sense than most of the other "fixed points".

Yes and 'fixed points' of time are the same bullshit plot contrivance they were now, as when they got introduced. The plot contrivance I was talking about was the angels somehow making it impossible for the Doctor to travel to NY.

At least the first couple of times fixed points were used, it was on epically important events in human history. You can't convince me that the universe gives a shit where Amy and Rory lived.


The last two episodes would have been dramatically improved if this one didn't exist and last week was stretched across two episodes and the William decided the leave the Doctor of their own violation because Amy in not a ten year old girl who needs him any more.

It's like Rose. The companians have apparently become so important and beloved that they can't just leave or die anymore. They have to be written out with a contrivance so the Doctor can't get anymore to him.

I hope like hell, the next few episodes don't have him moping over the ponds and comparing the Coleman companion to them. Like Martha got.

[DaveJB]

I actually liked the episode overall, but the way in which Amy and Rory were written out was pretty weaksauce, mostly because it had basically been done before way back in Amy's Choice.

Personally, I think they should have had Amy and Rory coming back to life after their "suicide" but remaining in 1938, with the Doctor just not realising that they had survived and not being able to go back there to check. Either that or specify that Rory has been killed and brought back to life so many times that he's now a walking, talking paradox, and that the TARDIS won't even be within a hundred miles of him anymore (like Captain Jack in Utopia, only moreso).

[Starglider]

Ludicrously contrived and nonsensical. The cumulation of the whole season; writing obssessed with 'character moments' and 'cool images' but utterly unable to build a plausible fantasy world or string together a satisfying narrative.

[PREDATOR490]

1 - Predictable load of shit

As I said last week:

Next Week - Weeping Angels + River Song + Ponds
Dibs on the Ponds getting transported back in time by the Weeping Angels and meeting the Doctor as old folks.
My magic melodrama bullshit metre also predicts the Doctor using technobabble to justify not being able to save them followed by the Doctor going into another emo phase.

Verdict: Good fucking riddance, if River Song gets transported back as well... oh wait... fuck.

As for Angels - The city that never sleeps, filled with tourists, security cameras and any other kind of recording equipment and it is going to be 'policed' by Angels who zap you back in time. That is the most retarded setup I have ever heard of and I wont be surprised if Lady Liberty ends up being the Queen Angel.

Statue of Liberty is an Angel = Fuck you
That alone deserves a 1 rating for the retarded abuse of writers fiat to make it work.

Doctor cant go back to New York = Fuck you
Someone forgot the Doctor has already been to New York... you know when it was the Daleks in Manhattan which was 1930. The events of this episode take place in 1938.
Thus The Doctor CAN go to New York BUT not THAT specific year otherwise the Daleks + Tennant would have been screwed.
If the Doctor can go to 1930... he has 8 years worth of time to go back and lay the seeds to get Rory and Amy back.

Oh right = Timey wimey plot contriviance bullshit

Fun deathmatch: Daleks + Angels + Tennant + Smith + Ponds + Jones
That would have been an epic episode to watch given how much of a literal clusterfuck it would be

Fixed Point = Fuck you
Doctor Who has been extremely flimsy on fixed points being ACTUALLY fixed when it suits them. Isnt this the same Doctor that spent ages whinning his death was a fixed point only to get out of it ?
The Doctor only knows Amy and Rory are going to die, he dosent know HOW they are going to die and didnt even know WHEN they were going to die
Thus, the fixed point is ... they die at the ages of 80ish.

Uhm... that gives you multiple decades of inbetween time to have any adventures you want without it causing planet ripping paradoxes.

Angels = Guess What ?
Whoosh... there goes all the established rules regarding not being able to move when seen, lone hunters and images of an angel.

According to this epsiode the Angels zapped Rory back in time then left him to die in a room for decades - Uhm... why didnt Rory leave and how did he survive without food etc. for that long.
Were the Angels running a B&B service for those they caught ?
As someone else mentioned, even if the Doctor cannot go directly to New York - Which is bullshit
The Doctor can either go elsewhere and get the Ponds to somewhere he can go to fetch them.

You have ALL of time and space + an entire planet full of people to play with and your going to try and bullshit complain you cannot get Rory and Amy back.

Guy manages to keep an Angel locked up in chains + keep them out with locks on the door. What the fuck ?
Angels seem to be rather polite when the plot demands it - I.E River Song didnt get her neck snapped or otherwise mauled during her escape attempt
Rory and Amy had their long ass suicide scene where they eventually seem to forget Statue of Liberty is sitting right there while they are looking into each other's eyes.
Angel magically lets the Doctor go and get the last page of the book he ripped out not to mention being polite enough to sit around while all three have their teary melodrama.

River Song = Kill her already
Rory = Sorry dude, Doctor Who decided to treat you like utter shit for no reason then wreck any potential for character growth
Amy = Go back and tell my younger self a story about the future where I die... WHAT THE FUCK ?!
What was that about not telling people about future events ?
Wont that cause a paradox with the young pond meeting the Doctor when he shouldnt ?

This epsiode is a disgrace of writers fiat and contriviance designed to serve the plot while ignoring the massive holes.
Did the Doctor SERIOUSLY just leave Earth in the TARDIS with Angels STILL RUNNING AROUND NEW YORK and the SOL as well ?

Final Verdict:

[Lord Woodlouse]

A future where she dies... of old age. Why is that particularly distressing for you?

[Scrib]

A future where she dies... of old age. Why is that particularly distressing for you?

She's stuck in a hotel for the rest of her life.

[RileyManheim]

I gave it a two for sentimental reasons.

I liked the weeping angels [just 'cause I always liked them....they still were horribly abused in this episode to a depressing level] and it was a different way of getting rid of the companions.

That said, that is really all the credit gets.

I think they need to replace the doctor & the writers ASAP or this will be the last or next to last season at this rate.

[DaveJB]

I think they need to replace the doctor & the writers ASAP or this will be the last or next to last season at this rate.

Unless the remaining half of the season suffers a total ratings collapse, that's highly unlikely. Hell, even if that did happen, all that would result is that Moffat would probably be fired after the 50th anniversary story.

Even if Moffat does get fired (or just quits) in the near future, the list of potential successors doesn't exactly make for pretty reading. Probably the most palatable option would be Toby Whithouse, who wrote the last-but-one episode and also the original Being Human. Other than that you're looking at the likes of Mark Gatiss (who would probably be given complete free reign on the show and just turn out to be RTD Mark II), Chris Chibnall (first two seasons of Torchwood; do I really need to say anything else?) or Matthew Graham (who has done good stuff elsewhere, but demonstrated little grasp of Doctor Who from what I can tell).

[Dartzap]

Theres also the chap who started off Misfits, though I don't think he's done any episodes yet.

[Crazedwraith]

Or they could make a clean break and bring in an all new staff. Mad idea as that is.

[PREDATOR490]

A future where she dies... of old age. Why is that particularly distressing for you?

Why would you go back and tell a child that, especially given what we were previously told about fixed points ?

I dont THINK Amy got stuck in a hotel for the rest of her life - Supposedly THAT was undone with the Paradox however it would be hilariously funny if that WAS the case

Angels dont time travel as far as we know thus... inorder for Rory & Amy to get lifted those Angels have been running around since 1938
The Statue of Liberty alone should have resulted in the extermination of millions of people who take photos, watch it on TV etc.

We dont even see what happens to the Ponds when they arrive so it is entirely possible they got stuck in another Angel hotel setup by the survivors.

What really pisses me off is the Doctor's apparant disregard of the blatant fact Angels are running around Earth... and he leaves without a second thought.
Thanks Doc, leave the pissed off Angel surviors that have been running around since 1938 to continue zapping people into the past. What could possibly happen ?

[Parallax]

Plot contrivance? They've banged on about "fixed points" in time for years now. Paradoxes compounded by potential paradoxes, as in the city of New York and its colony of Angels, actually makes more sense than most of the other "fixed points".

Yes and 'fixed points' of time are the same bullshit plot contrivance they were now, as when they got introduced. The plot contrivance I was talking about was the angels somehow making it impossible for the Doctor to travel to NY.

I think it's more a point of when the Doctor gets involved/a TARDIS arrives somewhere then that point in time becomes more solid or fixed. Why? Buggered if I know but probably to do with if events happened one way for the time traveller then it can't happen again differently, else paradox and then flying reapers come out and eat people or something.

But whether or not history/time can be changed has had contradictory results and tellings throughout the show's history. Way back in 'The Aztecs', Barbara tries to change the way Aztec culture ran and failed miserably, all the while the Doctor going on about how history can't be changed, etc. Another notable instance was 'Genesis of the Daleks' where history is definitely changed with Dalek development being set back 1000 years.