Canon Policy of Warhammer 40000

[Boeing 757]

Ladies and gentlemen,

What source material does Games Workshop deem to be canon? Is WH40k canon stratified just as the old SW canon hierarchy was?

[Darksider]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Connor will be along shortly to deliver yet another rant about how canon is bullshit and V.S. debates should be less conflicting and all about like, understanding each other man, for peace and stuff.

[Purple]

I was not aware of any canon policy at all.

[Kuja]

The basic 40k canon policy is "everything is canon, nothing is true" Which is to say everyone is encouraged to pick whatever bits they think is best, ignore stuff they don't, and make up whatever stuff they like.

In terms of authority, however, there is something of a tier progression. At the top is offical GW paraphenalia (codexes and the like), followed by 2nd-party creations (Black Library books and Forge World creations), followed by 3rd party work (Fantasy Flight Games' RPGs and the like). Contradictions in older stuff is usually ignored (or poked fun at) and it's rare for something to be legitimately decanonized (even the squats came back eventually).

Of course you'll still see contradictions crop up all over the place because writers choose to interpret the 40Kverse however they may, but by and large what official GW stuff says goes - if someone depicts the Raven Guard space marines wearing bright red and gold without a good explanation they're gong to get a slap.

[Kojiro]

It seems to be simply what's in the latest book.

Space marines have evolved from thuggish convicts/mercenary types given power armour and bolters to noble, elite space monks. Orks have gone from human size/strength excitable miscreants to bloodthirsty ogre like fungus. It's whatever GW wants at the time- usually to make the race seem cooler and sell more models.

[bilateralrope]

About a year ago I saw a quote from GW staff about their canon policy. All I can remember is it giving me an impression that GW doesn't have a canon policy because having one would mean extra effort, but they are pretending to have one because they see benefits in doing that.

Though FFG staff often did talk about how there are were a few things they put into the 40k RPGs because Games Workshop insisted on them. Things like Space Marines always being male, or Orks being so resistant to warp corruption that the mechanics treat them as being immune. So there are some bits GW cares about enough that they won't let anyone contradict them.

[Starglider]

Space marines have evolved from thuggish convicts/mercenary types given power armour and bolters to noble, elite space monks.

AFAIK they were never 'convicts' or 'mercenaries'. In the original 40K Rouge Trader the different chapters had different recruiting policies, usually from various death worlds / warrior tribes / hive gangs etc. However their own traditions were clearly monastic and indoctrination of new recruits into that culture was described as total and effective (to the point of brainwashing).

[Dr. Trainwreck]

They don't have any. So long as you get the GW stamp, you're clear whether you are Abnett or Forgeworld. Which means that everything good to come out of 40k is served with two doses of stupidity and pointless grimdark, and I'll leave it at that.

[StarSword]

GW's approach to the contradictions that other IP holders solve with a canon policy is to invoke Unreliable Narrator. In-universe the fluff and novels and so forth are considered to be written by the faction with whom they are concerned, and they all want to paint themselves in the best possible light (for example, a lot of information on the Tau Empire's concentration camps and so forth comes from the Imperial propaganda machine, making its veracity at least questionable).

[Elheru Aran]

GW's approach to the contradictions that other IP holders solve with a canon policy is to invoke Unreliable Narrator. In-universe the fluff and novels and so forth are considered to be written by the faction with whom they are concerned, and they all want to paint themselves in the best possible light (for example, a lot of information on the Tau Empire's concentration camps and so forth comes from the Imperial propaganda machine, making its veracity at least questionable).

Then to counter that there's bits in, I think it was Dawn of War, and the Fire Warrior novel that do imply that such information on the Tau Empire may be correct...

But yes, in general there's no canon insofar as an actual policy written down somewhere goes. The general attitude is something along the lines of "it's a big universe, everybody can play". There's room for variation here and there. GW itself tries to be more or less internally consistent, but with each generation there'll be changes. It's not very likely that they're going to turn it into the "Joe Heresy" or rename Vulkan "Bob" or anything like that, for example, but they might tweak some things such as turning Grey Knights from a small force of Inquisition-backed Space Marines into a freaking army with baby Titans and Sororitas dresses...

[andrewgpaul]

Partly that's because I think the attitude is "here's a setting. Go and tell your own stories." Which is why you get stuff like... there's a thousand Space Marine chapters, but we're not going to tell you about all of them; all Imperial aircraft are flown by the Navy, not the Guard - except for the Phantine and Elysian regiments; there were nine traitor legions, but now they're all broken up into a myriad squabbling warbands, and they keep recruiting new guys. About the only "fixed point" remaining is that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos. It's also why, Ciaphas Cain novels aside, we're not going to find out what happens after the "end times". Whether Chaos or the Imperium or the Hive Fleets or whoever win is up to you and your buddies, and you'll have a different answer to those guys over there. That was how you wrote gaming settings in the late 80s, I think, and to me, it's a feature. I spend more time "in" the 40k setting than I do in, say, Star Wars, due to the nature of gaming vs watching films, so the odd bits I don't like are more annoying there. Having official "permission" to ignore them helps. It also means you end up with a setting where Gregor Eisenhorn, Amberley Vail and Jaq Draco can be members of the same organisation.

[Kojiro]

To be honest I think they're just lazy. Before setting out on the whole Horus Heresy thing they really should have laid some ground rules and set out a rough timeline. They seem to have the same attitude regarding rules where disputes are resolved with a dice off (or as I've semi-jokingly heard it referred to as roll 4+ to cheat).

[Purple]

Oh my god. I have got to include that rule into my D&D games.

[Eternal_Freedom]

To be honest I think they're just lazy. Before setting out on the whole Horus Heresy thing they really should have laid some ground rules and set out a rough timeline. They seem to have the same attitude regarding rules where disputes are resolved with a dice off (or as I've semi-jokingly heard it referred to as roll 4+ to cheat).

In fairness the idea of that is to stop nitpicky disputes getting in the way of enjoying a game. Having used it from time to time I think it's actually a reasonable idea.

[Grumman]

To be honest I think they're just lazy. Before setting out on the whole Horus Heresy thing they really should have laid some ground rules and set out a rough timeline. They seem to have the same attitude regarding rules where disputes are resolved with a dice off (or as I've semi-jokingly heard it referred to as roll 4+ to cheat).

In fairness the idea of that is to stop nitpicky disputes getting in the way of enjoying a game. Having used it from time to time I think it's actually a reasonable idea.

It's a reasonable last resort, but it shouldn't be used as a crutch. It's like the appeals process in criminal law: it's okay that it's there as a safety net, but if you need to use it you've already done something wrong.

As for the original topic, GW's policy is that everything is canon. Mine is that everything is canon, unless it is stupid.

[Elheru Aran]

They do have a 'rough timeline'. It's actually pretty well set up to semi 'modern times'. The main thing is that they left a lot of room to throw anything extra in that they wanted to play with, such as building backstory for the Salamanders and Iron Hands.

[Kojiro]

AFAIK they were never 'convicts' or 'mercenaries'. In the original 40K Rouge Trader the different chapters had different recruiting policies, usually from various death worlds / warrior tribes / hive gangs etc. However their own traditions were clearly monastic and indoctrination of new recruits into that culture was described as total and effective (to the point of brainwashing).

For true aggression ans psychotic killer-instinct however, few recruits can best the murderous followers of the city-scum that roam the darkest pits of the hive worlds. Driven to extremes of inanity by the colossal pressure of hive world living, these merciless killers are usually ignored by the authorities (indeed their warrens are so vast it would be impractical to eradicate them completely). They make ideal Space Marines, and whole gangs of city scum are sometimes hunted and captured for this purpose. Some recruits come from civilised areas of the Imperium- but not very many.

Perhaps my wording was a tad precise- 'unashamed psychotic killers with no regard for life' might have been better. Regardless, the marines of RT bear only a passing resemblance to the current era marines (who I would say are actually 2 'evolutions' away from their origins).

The timeline they have is very tentative- they're what, 20 odd books in now and still going? Has the Siege of Terra happened yet (I got bored at the Propero Burns book if memory serves)?

[White Haven]

That's only establishing common Astartes recruiting practices, their source material as it were. That is quite often still true; most Astartes chapters like to start with the hardest motherfuckers they can lay their hands on. At which point they break them down and build them back up into whatever that particular chapter views as the ideal newbie Marine. The raw material doesn't define the end product. If it did, a chapter that recruited from a feral world would have a hard time dealing with starships and plasma weapons and tanks.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

That's only establishing common Astartes recruiting practices, their source material as it were. That is quite often still true; most Astartes chapters like to start with the hardest motherfuckers they can lay their hands on. At which point they break them down and build them back up into whatever that particular chapter views as the ideal newbie Marine. The raw material doesn't define the end product. If it did, a chapter that recruited from a feral world would have a hard time dealing with starships and plasma weapons and tanks.

IIRC from the Space Wolves novels, they can download stuff right into the aspirants' brain (and just think of all the brainwashing that implies). So they only thing that matters in the aspirants is physical constitution* and, I guess, whether their DNA or blood type or something is good for the geneseed.

*This has always bugged me. Who the hell told GW that raggedy-ass barbarian warrior cultures were actually tougher than city folk, when realistically they suffer the most from malnutrition and exposure? The only way that makes sense is that they'd recruit from a medieval society's aristocracy or knights, given that they should already train for war all the time and have a higher standard of living than the peasants. Or even better, they'd recruit from heavily militarised but modern planets. To GW's credit some Chapters do that, which leads me to suspect it's not as much poor worldbuilding as the Astartes themselves not giving a shit about ruling their subjects.

[StarSword]

That's only establishing common Astartes recruiting practices, their source material as it were. That is quite often still true; most Astartes chapters like to start with the hardest motherfuckers they can lay their hands on. At which point they break them down and build them back up into whatever that particular chapter views as the ideal newbie Marine. The raw material doesn't define the end product. If it did, a chapter that recruited from a feral world would have a hard time dealing with starships and plasma weapons and tanks.

IIRC from the Space Wolves novels, they can download stuff right into the aspirants' brain (and just think of all the brainwashing that implies). So they only thing that matters in the aspirants is physical constitution* and, I guess, whether their DNA or blood type or something is good for the geneseed.

The same novels establish that knowing in your head how to do something isn't the same thing as physical capability. Never mind training muscle memory, the downloaded knowledge isn't always readily accessible (implied to be the result of the tech involved being past its expiration date due to the Imperium's stagnance) and has to be practiced.

[Ahriman238]

There are plenty of urbanite chapters that recruit primarily from underhive gangs, like the now-destroyed Crimson Consuls. According to Sons of Dorn, the Imperial Fists actually pop in on primitive worlds and land in the middle of ongoing battles to pick aspirants, as do the White Scars and Space Wolves on their own worlds, even though IIRC they're the one chapter honored with the ability to recruit aspirants from Holy Terra itself. Blood Angels took an existing Rite of Passage tradition on Baal and added gathering at a central location and fighting each other for the right to join the chapter. Macragge is one of the most advanced and cosmopolitan Imperial worlds, they make candidates run a gauntlet as a pure gut check, then if they're compatible and want in, they're in. Until or unless they wash out.

On the other hand, the Red Scorpions raise their aspirants from infancy (they're offered up as sacrifices to the sky-giants) so no ideas or influence from outside the chapter can poison the aspirants' minds. Grey Knights recruit from the Black Ships, have the 666 rites of detestation (or as I prefer to think of it, the GK family photo album) where candidates are exposed to all manner of sanity-breaking horror and executed if they flinch, vomit, or turn away, then they erase that resolve along with all the new aspirants' memories.

[StarSword]

And the Blood Angels organize what amounts to gladiatorial matches and take the winners with them.

EDIT: NVM, missed where Ahriman posted that already.

[Ahriman238]

The Salamanders have the best recruiting practices, each Salamander is expected to remain a part of his community, and run a smithy or go hunting, many of these duties can get neglected for training and war deployments, so each Salamander naturally attracts a circle of ordinary human helpers, apprentices and friends, some of whom will recommend themselves for the chapter in how they work and fight.


Well, I admit my favorite way of doing this is most decidedly not canon (and GW should probably get around to fixing that one of these days) but from the Storm Ravens chapter of Delta Octalis in the truly excellent fanfic the Misfits. The Octalians are all terrified of mutation and concerned with purity, so once a year on Selection Day all the young men and women undergo genetic screening and a physical exam and get assigned a score 1-10. Ones, being mutants, extremely likely to bear mutants or non-participants in Selection, get no vote and are forbidden from having children if not actually sterilized. Tens get 10 votes, can have unlimited children and the cushiest jobs, or the chance to join the Chapter, with most of society falling somewhere in-between with multiple votes and able to have a restricted number of children. And there's various social stratification involved, Ones get menial jobs, Seven is the minimum threshold for joining the IG regiments and so on. If you don't like the number you're assigned, good news! There's an appeals process. Bad news, your appeal is single combat with a Space Marine, to first blood. For every thirty seconds you last, you jump two levels.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

That's only establishing common Astartes recruiting practices, their source material as it were. That is quite often still true; most Astartes chapters like to start with the hardest motherfuckers they can lay their hands on. At which point they break them down and build them back up into whatever that particular chapter views as the ideal newbie Marine. The raw material doesn't define the end product. If it did, a chapter that recruited from a feral world would have a hard time dealing with starships and plasma weapons and tanks.

IIRC from the Space Wolves novels, they can download stuff right into the aspirants' brain (and just think of all the brainwashing that implies). So they only thing that matters in the aspirants is physical constitution* and, I guess, whether their DNA or blood type or something is good for the geneseed.

The same novels establish that knowing in your head how to do something isn't the same thing as physical capability. Never mind training muscle memory, the downloaded knowledge isn't always readily accessible (implied to be the result of the tech involved being past its expiration date due to the Imperium's stagnance) and has to be practiced.

It is very useful in dealing with culture shock, though. It won't make them just 'know' how to use a bolter, but at least they'll know such things as bolters exist.

There are plenty of urbanite chapters that recruit primarily from underhive gangs, like the now-destroyed Crimson Consuls. According to Sons of Dorn, the Imperial Fists actually pop in on primitive worlds and land in the middle of ongoing battles to pick aspirants, as do the White Scars and Space Wolves on their own worlds, even though IIRC they're the one chapter honored with the ability to recruit aspirants from Holy Terra itself. Blood Angels took an existing Rite of Passage tradition on Baal and added gathering at a central location and fighting each other for the right to join the chapter. Macragge is one of the most advanced and cosmopolitan Imperial worlds, they make candidates run a gauntlet as a pure gut check, then if they're compatible and want in, they're in. Until or unless they wash out.

The Ultramarines seem like they'd have the best aspirants at the beginning; people on Macragge would probably know technology, have a healthy diet, while still training like hell for the honor. It is thus that Guilliman became your spiritual liege.

On the other hand, the Red Scorpions raise their aspirants from infancy (they're offered up as sacrifices to the sky-giants) so no ideas or influence from outside the chapter can poison the aspirants' minds. Grey Knights recruit from the Black Ships, have the 666 rites of detestation (or as I prefer to think of it, the GK family photo album) where candidates are exposed to all manner of sanity-breaking horror and executed if they flinch, vomit, or turn away, then they erase that resolve along with all the new aspirants' memories.

The Red Scorpions are one part of 40k I've decided I want nothing to do with. They're fanatical ubermenschen obsessed with genetic purity; who the hell wrote this?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Well, I admit my favorite way of doing this is most decidedly not canon (and GW should probably get around to fixing that one of these days) but from the Storm Ravens chapter of Delta Octalis in the truly excellent fanfic the Misfits. The Octalians are all terrified of mutation and concerned with purity, so once a year on Selection Day all the young men and women undergo genetic screening and a physical exam and get assigned a score 1-10. Ones, being mutants, extremely likely to bear mutants or non-participants in Selection, get no vote and are forbidden from having children if not actually sterilized. Tens get 10 votes, can have unlimited children and the cushiest jobs, or the chance to join the Chapter, with most of society falling somewhere in-between with multiple votes and able to have a restricted number of children. And there's various social stratification involved, Ones get menial jobs, Seven is the minimum threshold for joining the IG regiments and so on. If you don't like the number you're assigned, good news! There's an appeals process. Bad news, your appeal is single combat with a Space Marine, to first blood. For every thirty seconds you last, you jump two levels.

That fic isn't too bad. There is some weirdness (like the kung-fu aspirant sparring an Astartes to a standstill), but it has nothing on things like tau taking over a Space Marine homeworld.