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California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 07:02am
by dragon
How the hell is this not inciting violence and advocating murder.
A lawyer in California has submitted a ballot initiative with the state Department of Justice calling for the death of anyone who engages in sodomy in the state, the San Diego Gay & Lesbian News reports.
The proposal by Matt McLaughlin, who lists his address in Huntington Beach, was received by the initiative coordinator at the Office of the Attorney General on Feb. 26. Enclosed was a $200 check and the complete text of his "Sodomite Suppression Act." The act outlines seven measures relating to those who engage in same-sex sodomy, "a monstrous evil that Almighty God, giver of freedom and liberty, commands us to suppress on pain of our utter destruction even as he overthrew Sodom and Gomorrha."
McLaughlin recommends punishment by death, even though a judge ruled that California's death penalty is unconstitutional last June:
Seeing that it is better that offenders should die rather than that all of us should be killed by God's just wrath against us for the folly of tolerating-wickedness in our midst, the People of California wisely command, in the fear of God, that any person who willingly touches another person of the same gender for purposes of sexual gratification be put to death by bullets to the head or by any other convenient method.
The document goes on to push a ban on the distribution of "sodomistic propaganda" (we can only assume he was inspired by Russia, as some note) and on "sodomites" from serving in public office. He also wants the act to be "prominently" displayed in public school classrooms.
sodomite
Ballot initiatives were added to the California Constitution in 1911 and allow for voters to propose constitutional amendments and statutes to be voted on by the larger populace. After an initiative is submitted, the sponsor must get signatures from five percent of the number of votes in the most recent gubernatorial election, Wonkette notes. That would be more than 350,000.
Kristin Ford, the press secretary with the Office of Attorney General Kamala D. Harris, told The Huffington Post they are in the process of reviewing the initiative.
link
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 08:28am
by Broomstick
It's free speech at work. You are allowed to say anything you want, but that does not mean the rest of the populace will go along with it.
Yes, it's advocating violence and murder, but unless actual riots or shootings occur he is unlikely to be prosecuted. Sometimes, ignoring nutters is the best way of silencing them.
I very much doubt he'll get any traction with this.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 08:52am
by B5B7
Broomstick wrote:It's free speech at work. You are allowed to say anything you want, but that does not mean the rest of the populace will go along with it.
Yes, it's advocating violence and murder, but unless actual riots or shootings occur he is unlikely to be prosecuted. Sometimes, ignoring nutters is the best way of silencing them.
I very much doubt he'll get any traction with this.
Are official government documents within the ambit of free speech protections?
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 09:32am
by LaCroix
This will probably be rejected outright because it doesn't pass the basic legal tests.
1. It's a law driven by religion (mentioned multiple times), which should get it dropped by the separation clause at least.
2. It's not justifying how sodomy is hurting others gravely enough to deserve being be punished that hard. It's only stating it _could_ cause some god (probably the christion one
) to smite us. Which is a bit of a wonky argument because we're liable to smiting by multiple gods for multiple reasons every minute of our life, and still it rarely happens...
Laws with much better argumentations have been thrown out because of that rule.
3. The fact that the death penalty was seemingly abolished, so it cant apply here, then.
Apart from hopefully not enough nutcases being around in California to vote this into being.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 11:54am
by Broomstick
B5B7 wrote:Broomstick wrote:It's free speech at work. You are allowed to say anything you want, but that does not mean the rest of the populace will go along with it.
Yes, it's advocating violence and murder, but unless actual riots or shootings occur he is unlikely to be prosecuted. Sometimes, ignoring nutters is the best way of silencing them.
I very much doubt he'll get any traction with this.
Are official government documents within the ambit of free speech protections?
There is a difference between documents
produced or
published by the government and documents, such as petitions,
submitted to the government.
You can ask for anything you want - but you are not at all guaranteed to get it.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 11:57am
by Terralthra
Legal issues aside, he's now got to go find 350k people to sign that think it would be a good idea to punish oral and anal sex with death.
I think he'll have some trouble.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 02:10pm
by Jaepheth
I could see some people I know doing this.
Not because they believe in the position, but because they'd be so sick of arguing with people who are against gay rights due to religious beliefs.
Basically saying, "FINE, let's just jump to your position's logical conclusion and see how it does."
At least, I would hope that's what this is.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 02:22pm
by Purple
Terralthra wrote:Legal issues aside, he's now got to go find 350k people to sign that think it would be a good idea to punish oral and anal sex with death.
I think he'll have some trouble.
Say he does though. Say he goes the extra mile and finds 500 KPeople. What happens?
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 02:23pm
by Terralthra
Purple wrote:Terralthra wrote:Legal issues aside, he's now got to go find 350k people to sign that think it would be a good idea to punish oral and anal sex with death.
I think he'll have some trouble.
Say he does though. Say he goes the extra mile and finds 500 KPeople. What happens?
Then it'll go to a statewide vote, where the majority of Californians would have to vote "yes" for "kill people who receive or give blowjobs, cunnilingus, or anal sex."
I don't see it passing.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 02:31pm
by Borgholio
Even if it does pass, it'll have to pass the constitutional scrutiny...which it won't. The 8th Amendment clearly forbids cruel and unusual punishment, which would apply to killing two adults who participated in a consensual sexual act.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 02:53pm
by Terralthra
Borgholio wrote:Even if it does pass, it'll have to pass the constitutional scrutiny...which it won't. The 8th Amendment clearly forbids cruel and unusual punishment, which would apply to killing two adults who participated in a consensual sexual act.
8th Amendment wouldn't even get brought up. In order to bring up the 8th, you have to show that the crime should be a crime, and this law wouldn't even get past rational interest, let alone intermediate or strict scrutiny. There's no legitimate government interest.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 03:22pm
by bilateralrope
Borgholio wrote:Even if it does pass, it'll have to pass the constitutional scrutiny...which it won't. The 8th Amendment clearly forbids cruel and unusual punishment, which would apply to killing two adults who participated in a consensual sexual act.
That still leaves a problem of what happens between it passing and the courts striking it down.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:25pm
by The Romulan Republic
bilateralrope wrote:Borgholio wrote:Even if it does pass, it'll have to pass the constitutional scrutiny...which it won't. The 8th Amendment clearly forbids cruel and unusual punishment, which would apply to killing two adults who participated in a consensual sexual act.
That still leaves a problem of what happens between it passing and the courts striking it down.
Really? I know people like to bash America, and God knows it has its problems, but is anyone stupid enough to think that their is a remotely realistic chance of this law being passed, much less enforced for even one fucking minute?
And the 8th. is what you're going with? I'd think the 1st. and 14th. are equally pertinent.
Edit: I mean, for God's sake, California is not Nazi Germany. This won't pass, this won't be enforced, and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to call for rolling tanks into California in response.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:28pm
by Block
bilateralrope wrote:Borgholio wrote:Even if it does pass, it'll have to pass the constitutional scrutiny...which it won't. The 8th Amendment clearly forbids cruel and unusual punishment, which would apply to killing two adults who participated in a consensual sexual act.
That still leaves a problem of what happens between it passing and the courts striking it down.
A court order delaying implementation pending judicial review. End o story.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:34pm
by bilateralrope
The Romulan Republic wrote:Edit: I mean, for God's sake, California is not Nazi Germany. This won't pass, this won't be enforced, and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to call for rolling tanks into California in response.
I can't argue with that. Honestly, I'll be surprised if enough people sign the petition.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:35pm
by Broomstick
Purple wrote:Terralthra wrote:Legal issues aside, he's now got to go find 350k people to sign that think it would be a good idea to punish oral and anal sex with death.
I think he'll have some trouble.
Say he does though. Say he goes the extra mile and finds 500 KPeople. What happens?
Then it's put to a state-wide vote, which it probably won't pass. If it did get past that hurdle....
It faces a challenge in the state because California no longer uses the death penalty
It faces a challenge in the SCotUS because of all the other gay rights cases.
That's just the legal stuff - there would also be protests, people defending/hiding gays from persecution, and the like. Especially in California given how gay-friendly large swaths of California is.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:41pm
by The Romulan Republic
bilateralrope wrote:The Romulan Republic wrote:Edit: I mean, for God's sake, California is not Nazi Germany. This won't pass, this won't be enforced, and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to call for rolling tanks into California in response.
I can't argue with that. Honestly, I'll be surprised if enough people sign the petition.
Me too. I have no doubt you could find a lot of people who hate gays and/or believe sodomy is sinful in California, but enough who would go as far as endorsing mass murder and be willing to put their name on a petition to that effect?
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:45pm
by Kamakazie Sith
Personally, I consider his statements to be no different than terrorist threats and/or someone conspiring to engage in mass murder. I am not saying he should be charged with a crime but I do think a court ordered psychological evaluation wouldn't be out of line.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:45pm
by Purple
So there is absolutely no way that if the people were willing this thing would actually pass?
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 04:47pm
by The Romulan Republic
I want to add that while I am generally not in favour of the post-911 police state tendencies of America, I think a good argument can be made that everyone who signs this petition should be watched closely by law enforcement. The law may never be passed, but that doesn't mean some bigoted shit won't decide to take out their frustration over its defeat by trying to do something themselves.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 05:02pm
by bilateralrope
Here's a question that might be more interesting: Is this petition enough for someone to start disbarment proceedings against McLaughlin ?
After all:
McLaughlin recommends punishment by death, even though a judge ruled that California's death penalty is unconstitutional last June:
He clearly doesn't care about existing court rulings.
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 06:24pm
by Pelranius
bilateralrope wrote:Here's a question that might be more interesting: Is this petition enough for someone to start disbarment proceedings against McLaughlin ?
After all:
McLaughlin recommends punishment by death, even though a judge ruled that California's death penalty is unconstitutional last June:
He clearly doesn't care about existing court rulings.
Probably not, though I don't know what the California Bar would have to say about these shenanigans (inciting hate is probably a big no no, I'd imagine).
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-04 06:34pm
by Alyrium Denryle
bilateralrope wrote:The Romulan Republic wrote:Edit: I mean, for God's sake, California is not Nazi Germany. This won't pass, this won't be enforced, and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to call for rolling tanks into California in response.
I can't argue with that. Honestly, I'll be surprised if enough people sign the petition.
Whats gonna be really funny is watching someone try to get signatures for that piece of shit in San Francisco.
So there is absolutely no way that if the people were willing this thing would actually pass?
None. It is in plain violation of numerous supreme court decisions, including one striking down ALL sodomy laws in the country
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-05 03:18am
by wautd
Code: Select all
Almighty God, giver of freedom and liberty
I'm sorry, but which God is he talking about? Surely not that petty OT God
Re: California petition to kill gays and lesibians
Posted: 2015-03-05 12:03pm
by General Zod
Can we start a petition to stone everybody that wears mixed fabrics? I want to see what kind of traction that would get.