Germany Now Backs Regime Change in Iraq

[MKSheppard]

http://personal.news.yahoo.com/us/news/ ... =540&ncid=

By STEPHEN GRAHAM, Associated Press Writer

BERLIN - German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said Wednesday he hoped Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s government would collapse quickly, marking a stark turnaround from Germany's previous opposition to regime change as a goal of the U.S.-led war.

"We hope the regime will collapse as soon as possible and we'll have no further loss of life — civilians
or soldiers," Fischer said before a meeting with his British counterpart, Jack Straw, at a hotel in Berlin's Grunewald suburb.

Both foreign ministers stressed common ground in Europe on Iraq (news - web sites) — a position that would seem hard to stake out after the diplomatic rift over whether war should be waged to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction.

Germany firmly opposed the war, joining France and Russia in opposing a U.N. resolution that would have authorized force, on the grounds that peaceful means to disarm Iraq had not been exhausted. Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has condemned regime change as a war aim.

Britain, Italy, Spain and several eastern European countries have stood firmly behind the United States' conviction that Iraq would never disarm voluntarily.

However, Straw said the divide over how to disarm Iraq "disguised a great deal of agreement."

Fischer grounded his wish for regime change in Iraq in the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Iraq — a similar argument to the one he laid out when he supported NATO (news - web sites)-led campaigns to end the Bosnian war and the Kosovo conflict.

"The humanitarian situation is very alarming," Fischer told reporters.

France's government has made a string of official statements aimed at making sure its opposition to the war is not interpreted as support for the Iraqi dictator. Both the prime minister and foreign minister have insisted that France hopes the U.S.-led coalition wins the war.

"Naturally, we hope for the end of Saddam Hussein's regime," government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope told reporters Wednesday in Paris.

The U.S. ambassador to France, Howard H. Leach, also took a conciliatory tone, telling the newspaper Le Parisien on Wednesday that Washington and Paris should concentrate on the tasks ahead rather than the acrimony over the war.

"We need to turn the page and leave that problem behind us," Leach was quoted as saying. "Let's get down today to the problems of tomorrow: the reconstruction of Iraq, North Korea (news - web sites), the proliferation of banned weapons in Iran."

At the meeting near Berlin, Straw said Germany's sponsorship last week of a U.N. resolution to restart the oil-for-food program augured well for future cooperation among the anti-war and pro-war camps when it comes time to discuss rebuilding Iraq.

He said he could imagine U.N.-sponsored talks on rebuilding Iraq similar to talks on Afghanistan (news - web sites)'s political future held in Bonn in 2001.

"We're not there yet," Straw said. "We have to wait until the military action comes to a proper conclusion."

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My comments: Fucking Kraut skum, now that it looks like we're gonna
win, they want in on the fucking thing.

Fuck 'em.

[Enforcer Talen]

personally, I consider it odd they didnt bank on a sure thing earlier in the year.

[Edi]

Shep, did it ever occur to you that the reasons Europe opposed the war had nothing to do with the person of Saddam Hussein himself but with other, larger things (and I'm not talking about commercial interests here either)?

I was opposed to the war, and on several levels I still am. My criticisms about the reasons used to justify this war (and the legitimate reasons not used except as an afterhought) and how the whole mess was handled remain unaltered. However, since it was obvious the war was going to be waged anyway and Saddam Hussein is a despicable, sadistic fuck who deserves everything bad coming his way, the coalition troops have my full support and I hope we get to see his head on a stick as soon as possible.

The European governments are no more fond of Saddam Hussein than I am, they recognize how fucked up he is. But the issue here is not, and for most of Europe never was, the person of Saddam Hussein. You have access to enough news if you just choose to do so that you could have easily found this out without me telling you.

Edi

[BabelHuber]

My comments: Fucking Kraut skum, now that it looks like we're gonna
win, they want in on the fucking thing.

Fuck 'em.

I think most people don´t know that:

- The USA may use their bases in Germany at will, with no restrictions whatsoever. This includes that the US Air Force may use German air space at will, too.
- US facilities that usually would be empty because the troops moved to Iraq are inhabitated by German military to prevent vandalism or other damage.
- German police and MP is protecting US property and increased patrols through the living quarters of US soldiers and their families to keep security at a high level.
- German forces are still taking part in the war against terror, this includes troops in Afghanistan and Kuweit and Naval Forces in the Red Sea.

I think this proves that the German government does not think that they are opponents of the USA. They have different opinions about the war, but no sane person here wants to break our relationship with the USA.

And to clear up things let´s put one thing straight: Bush is a President who, unlike Clinton and Bush Sr, doesn´t give a damn about his Allies. He just doesn´t care about any foreign opinions that are not his own, and that´s a mistake.

In November 2001, chanceller Schröder had a big problem with his own party, because he couldn´t be sure that all the delegates in the parliament would support his engagement in Afghanistan. A majority was sure for him because the conservative oppostion shared his views in this case, but he thought he needed a majority out of his own party. So he called a vote of no confidence for himself. If his party wouldn´t have followed him, the government would have had to step back.

After taking that risk, there was no reaction from the US government. One would think that the American President would call his Allie and gratulate him or tell him that he knows what Schröder did and say "thank you".
Clinton, Bush Sr. or Reagan undoubtedly would have done this, but Bush didn´t care about this. He doesn´t care for his Allies, and therefore doesn´t get the support his predecessors got.

[Queeb Salaron]

The first person I hear call for a regime change in Germany gets a slap. I hate that fucking slogan for anti-war anti-logic.

[Stravo]

Germany doesn't bother any where near as much as France does. Germany has supported us in other ways as already noted in a previous post. Does anyone notice hwere the severely wounded are going? Thats right to Ramstein where they are transferred to a hospital in Germany. The Germans may be opposed to the war but they have not abandoned us.

The French on the other hand, those political whores, are STILL trying to force the issue on UN involvement in the reconstruction and have intimated that they do not want to legitimize the US led war. Well, too fucking bad. They have egg on their face from this diplomatic disaster and instead of just shutting the fuck up and adapting to the changes have still held on to their surly diplomatic attitude. Bush is no diplomat, you'll never hear me praise his skills in that arena, but France, the supposed paragon of diplomatic skill and finesse has not impressed me in this conflict either. Now they (France) want to "turn the page" Oh no, as Tony Soprano said "There has to be consequences and reprecussions."