Garou Nation (W:TA) In Shadowrun.

[Steelinghades]

The various major packs of the old World of Xarkness are going to try their hands of either surviving or thriving in the world of Shadowrun. Each of the packs will be on their own with no other packs assistance but with all their usual goodies they have; they will be transported to the areas of the Shadowrun world that correlate with their own--I.E Black Furies in Greece, Shadow lords in eastern Europe and Russia, etc. They will have all their Caerns and can still interact with the various spirits of their world, who will be sent along to assist.

These are the two scenarios:
1: Shadowrun circa 2050.

2: Shadowrun circa 2070.


Garou nation Packs.

1: Silent Striders.

2: Black Furies.

3: Red Talons.

4: Fianna.

5: Bone Gnawers.

6: Stargazers.

7: Children of Gaia.

8: Uktena.

9: Wendigo.

10: Get of Fenris.

11: Shadowlords.

12: White Fangs.

13: Black Spiral Dancers.


Who can survive the world of Shadowrun and who falls?

[TheFeniX]

Even 2050 Shadowrun has more than a working base to deal with Shapeshifters. While lacking true Werewolves, from my 3rd edition books (I have yet and may not even purchase later editions), you've got two options:

1. Loup Garou: humans infected with HMHVV. They are feral and generally killed onsite as they are highly infectious.
2. Shapeshifters: even the Pointy Ears and Native American Nation won't recognize them as full-human due to their feral nature.

So, rough spot at the beginning if they try and stay under the radar or resort to horning in on the action because it's hard to hide your true form from Shadowrun Mages and Shaman.

My WW memory is hazy. Pretty sure baseline Werewolves are bad news 1 on 1 for baseline WW Vampires. But that means little because IIRC, Werewolves rely on Sacred Sites to regen whatever passes for Mana that they have. Those sites are mirrored between SR and WW Earth (IIRC, things like Stonehenge, etc) and are pretty well protected by Magical Groups, some even backed by governments. On top of that, they may deal with shell-shock when some random guy/gal they run into is capable of meeting them head-to-head using magic or cyber/bioware, when they are used to a very small subset of "humanity" to even be capable of looking at them without fleeing in terror.

Yes, they have Rage. Shadowrun Humans have all the everything else. And they already know shapeshifters are vulnerable to silver.

Basically, they're being dumped off into a world where magic has already completely reshaped everything humanity knows about said world. If they play nice, since I'm pretty sure they are capable of it, they could be welcomed by multiple groups, such as the NAN and Druids, as they are all protectors of Gaia. They would probably not be big fans of the CAS and UCAS. It's been too long since I've read into anything Europe and Asia related that didn't concern Druids/Magic to make an assumption there.

They don't play nice.... people in the Shadowrun-verse hunt shit like Behemoths. And from what I know, WW Werewolves have issues with population as most their offspring are born either human or wolf. I think most groups would happily play with nature-oriented groups since those groups could A. wipe them the fuck out and B. groups like the NAN have helped repopulate wolf numbers quite well. If those groups dumped in the UCAS or CAS cause issues, they don't have much of a starting base and, unlike WW law enforcement, Lone Star and Knight Errant have a lot of experience dealing with magical/critter crime. And, Lone Star especially, is extremely likely to label them as nuisance animals to be put down, much like they deal with Shapeshifters who step out of line.

I was going to make a joke about Dire Wolf/Werewolf cross-breeds, but even Wolf Shaman won't go anywhere near those things, so that's not going to happen.

[Imperial Overlord]

Shadowrun already has werewolves (and other shifters as well). In Shadowrun they're Awakened animals that can shapeshift into humans. They've got human intelligence, jacked up physical abilities, vulnerability to silver, and regeneration. Some of them can use magic and they have been optional rules that allow PCs to be one. So they aren't that far off from World of Darkness Garou. Garou are badass, but nothing game changing for the world of Shadowrun. The Garou will manage to fit in.

[TheFeniX]

There's significant differences between SR Shapeshifters and Garou. One is mentality. Shapeshifters are animals first. Garou are not. Shapeshifters are not recognized as (meta)human by any government I can recall. The NAN protects them more than most, but cases of shapeshifters in the CAS and UCAS are handled like a feral animal: they don't get a day in court, they are put down. The NAN and (IIRC) Elf nations give them a day in court, but they still don't recognize them as human and don't give them full citizenship.

The Garou would almost definately be accepted as full citizens of the Tir and NAN nations. I could easily see the NAN giving them a place on the council and they would be powerful allies. They might even successfully petition for the same in the UCAS and CAS. But they are more likely to be scooped up as special forces types since, maybe they give off an odd Aura (which can be masked), but they can near instantly go from "normal dood" to a frenzied harbinger of death. And you don't need years of training like Psyads or millions in Cyberware.

I mean, one Werewolf was serious fucking business in our Vampire:tM games, because we didn't power game.

And Garou, at least in my memory, are far and above SR Shapeshifters. SR SSs only have two forms, Garou have 5. SSs in human form are just human, with possibly (like bear form) having some stat bonuses. They lack regeneration, but a killing blow forces them to shapeshift on a D6 roll of anything but a 1 (2 if the damage was done with high explosives). On a 1 (or 2) they die. Garou are effectively immortal to anything but silver... maybe fire, but that might just be vampires. Aggravated damage IIRC is the ONLY thing that can kill them. Whereas enough normal damage WILL kill a SR shapeshifter.

The Garou "pinnacle form," name escapes me, the "Hollywood Werewolf" form, (that Shapeshifters lack) is where they can do the most work, but I'm pretty sure they retain most of their strength, quickness and regeneration in all forms. Now, this is all baseline stuff.

But White Wolf gets stupid with power creep. Just like with Vampires and Celerity somehow letting them go back in time if you level it enough, Werewolves get some stupid powers as it goes along. Same basic concept as Wizards in D&D. They start out being weak (which Werewolves tend to skip), become well-rounded party members that begin to outshine everyone else, then Demi-Gods.

Even with that, Shadowrun has it's own cadre of super-human creatures. Dragons (and their Greater versions) for just one. But more than that, certain groups/teams bring their own fun to the party without allowing one singular entity to be the end-all. Paladins, Wildcats, Lone Star FRT. These guys don't fuck around and they can call upon entire governments/corps to back them up. And there are a few singularly powerful Shaman and Mages that could level some high-powered Garou.

[Imperial Overlord]

The power difference isn't that great. Garou are easier to kill than Shapeshifters because while they are slightly tougher than Shapeshifters, Shapeshifters have "heal all damage in a round that is less than instantly fatal, including silver and fire" Shadowrun regeneration compared to "heal one box of non aggravated damage in the same period of time" regeneration of the Garou. Shapeshifters have boosted reflexes and physical attributes as well as some of them being Shamans and Adepts. Garou aren't actually going to be in any better legal position from Shapeshifters because everyone is going to assume they're a new variety. Since both of them have human level intelligence and some Garou are, in fact, the children of animals actually sorting that out will take time if someone even cared too. The power level difference isn't very high. Garou just seem nastier because they live in a world with fewer jacked up cyborgs and full out combat mages.

Garou are just going to be another bunch of badasses in the shadows of the Awakened World.

[Terralthra]

It is worth noting that the shamans of the Garou are desperately held back in WoD by the fact that the sacred spaces and ley lines which allow them to perform rituals, create fetishes, and so on are largely corrupt where they haven't been destroyed totally. To an extent, all Garou can be shamans, too, it's not restricted to one particular class. The Great Ghost Dance that set off four volcanoes would've massively powered up the ley lines and caerns ridiculously. Most of the North and South American tribes kept close ties with their origin tribes on the reservations, and would likely have substantial access to the much stronger spiritual resources they'd have in this scenario.

[Imperial Overlord]

Yes, there is the "more mana around" shit to power up the Garou's Rites and Gifts, but there's also the "more corruption and pollution" around to take them down a step. Standard Shaman magic is pretty high powered, due to it being the magic of a setting with laser, cybernetics, and smartgun linked assault rifles. As for the Native American angle, only two of the Thirteen Tribes are Native American (South America has its own shifters). They don't have their tribal contacts, because the op says they don't have them. Their spirit allies and Totems will help a lot though.

No one seems to be arguing against them fitting in as another group of power players in the Shadowrun world.

[TheFeniX]

The power difference isn't that great. Garou are easier to kill than Shapeshifters because while they are slightly tougher than Shapeshifters, Shapeshifters have "heal all damage in a round that is less than instantly fatal, including silver and fire" Shadowrun regeneration compared to "heal one box of non aggravated damage in the same period of time" regeneration of the Garou.

It's a difference in the type of toughness and power. Player character Shapeshifters only heal IIRC up to their essence in one round. That's still 60% of any non-lethal damage a turn. Which is impressive. But a Cybered Troll (or even human) with spurs could put one down in melee combat. Maybe even permanently. A Power Bolt. Or Fireball. Same thing. And this will force the shapeshifter into it's animal form. Maybe a huge issue if it's a Werebear, but a werewolf isn't all that scary stat-wise. And their regeneration doesn't apply to Stun damage. Of course, if it did, a SS Shaman would be unstoppable.

A Garou on the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, is essentially immortal against anything but silver weapons and/or decapitation. And even then, they are still stupid tough even when Agg Damage is on the table since you STILL have to hit them and they STILL roll for resistance, even if that roll is reduced. And they are ridiculously stronger. I was playing our muscle, a 5th Gen (I think, maybe 7th, The lowest you could get starting because I needed the ability to pump more blood points into healing) Brujah Vampire pushing near max Potence and Celerity I could on a starting character. I could not hang in melee combat with a werewolf even when armed with silver shortblades.

At one point a pulled a parry (or whatever WW had) and caught his arm so he couldn't just claw me in half. So he instead, with one arm, threw me through a brick wall. Probably for the best actually since I was buying time while the rest of the coven cut and ran and then I was able to run as well.

Caught unaware, a standard Shadowrunning team can easily force a lone shapeshifter into a retreat or even death. In the same situation, a Garou is going to be more than a handful. Even if armed with Silver bullets, Garou are fast and strong, probably in the vein of Wired Reflexes and Base Troll strength. And this is without pumping Rage. In werewolf form, they could probably smack Trolls around. Meanwhile, a Troll could wrestle with anything other than a bear form SS. Cybered-enough, they could outfight a bear form SS.

Shapeshifters have boosted reflexes and physical attributes as well as some of them being Shamans and Adepts.

Psyad SSs would be Bad News.™ But Psyads are Bad News in any form. Fucking Wildcat Psyads man... Jesus.

Garou aren't actually going to be in any better legal position from Shapeshifters because everyone is going to assume they're a new variety. Since both of them have human level intelligence and some Garou are, in fact, the children of animals actually sorting that out will take time if someone even cared too. The power level difference isn't very high. Garou just seem nastier because they live in a world with fewer jacked up cyborgs and full out combat mages.

In Shadowrun, a Shapeshifter can never be fully "domesticated." Even one that has lived it's entire life around humans can straight up just tear someone's throat out and/or start eating them alive. The books state quite clearly that their animal instincts allow them to perform acts that could make the most hardened Shadowrunner wretch.

Even "feral" Garou born of wolves are still capable of being "brought around" with enough human exposure to function in society. I assume a lot of this has to do with their connection to Gaia, no matter their parentage. Garou that think they're human might not even know they are Werewolves until the first change. Any Shapeshifter in SS knows exactly what it is and that they are NOT human.

Based on this, and the NAN already accepting SR SSs, sending an envoy or two into council territory means they most definitely get an audience. Wolf Shaman alone would likely be completely enamored by the Garou immediately. Probably, viewing them as the next step for their Totem. IIRC, White Wolf got kind of stupid and had shit like Were Snakes and Were-<insert animal here>, so there's going to be a lot of Shaman wanting to play with their new friends.

And even the the UCAS (the CAS is always a craps shoot), there would be nothing but racism that would preclude, after research, the Garou being labelled as a new Meta-Human variety. At least IMO. And they don't put SSs down as a matter of course, so it's not like that try and petition the government and immediately get killed or anything. The UCAS even talks about protecting Loup Garou, though due to their infectious and violent nature they obviously don't.

Garou are just going to be another bunch of badasses in the shadows of the Awakened World.

True. I'm just saying. A starting player character Garou is going to be a wrecking ball, meanwhile a starting Shapeshifter is just "fairly powerful" to start. Just because they are more vulnerable to their shared weakness doesn't discount the advantages the Garou have.

[TheFeniX]

It is worth noting that the shamans of the Garou are desperately held back in WoD by the fact that the sacred spaces and ley lines which allow them to perform rituals, create fetishes, and so on are largely corrupt where they haven't been destroyed totally.

The NAN is filled with old Native American Ritual Sites that are active and, at least in Shadowrun game rules, give considerable bonuses to Shaman working "in sync" with the site. Same thing for areas of the British Isles. In a pinch, I'd have to assume (though maybe only Wolf would apply) a Shamanic lodge could work.

But depending on their numbers and inclination, they may just up and decide to take a vacation since I can't see why a place like the NAN, politics aside, wouldn't be a paradise to them.

To an extent, all Garou can be shamans, too, it's not restricted to one particular class. The Great Ghost Dance that set off four volcanoes would've massively powered up the ley lines and caerns ridiculously. Most of the North and South American tribes kept close ties with their origin tribes on the reservations, and would likely have substantial access to the much stronger spiritual resources they'd have in this scenario.

South America is weird. It's either a land of "Good" (for lack of a better term) magic or five feet away you're dealing with Toxics. The land is in recovery. Central America is a shitshow from what I know with Atzlan and all. But you just never know with those guys. The Garou might either agree with some of their more aggressive actions or jump at the opportunity to join them. My Atzlan sourcebooks were old to begin with and I somehow lost them either way.

[Imperial Overlord]

I'm going to try to avoid the quoting mess.

1) Garou can totally be killed with naked steel. They are easier to kill than Shapeshifters because their regeneration sucks in comparison. They seem harder to kill because Shadowrun game mechanics are in general more lethal. That's it. They don't regenerate aggravated and their regeneration is one box a round to non aggravated. That's it. You take them past incapacitated with cold steel or hot lead and they're down. And silver is super lethal against them. They get no soak at all against it (barring a few Gifts, which most of them won't have) and all of its damage is aggravated. Silver is far more effective against them then it is against Shapeshifters.

2) Werewolves aren't fucking human either. They're descended from humans or wolves, but they are killing machines driven by supernatural Rage. Even the most humanist, touchy feeley Werewolf is has impulses that drive them to commit appalling violence and is capable of berserker frenzies. They can't be "domesticated" either. Some of their political faction are pro mass human slaughter. They aren't going to check the legal system and think "let's totally come out and join with the Indians." The people they're going to be most politically sympathetic with are Shapeshifters.

3) Werewolves can be monstrously strong, but aren't necessarily so. Depends on the build and Gifts. I've seen guys overpower them in a grapple with only a little Potence, although that won't always work. That's really nice, but nothing that special in Shadowrun where jacked up physical attributes are the norm.

4) So we're basically in agreement that the Garou are bad boys, but nothing deal breaking in Shadowrun.

[Raw Shark]

1) Garou can totally be killed with naked steel. They are easier to kill than Shapeshifters because their regeneration sucks in comparison. They seem harder to kill because Shadowrun game mechanics are in general more lethal. That's it. They don't regenerate aggravated and their regeneration is one box a round to non aggravated. That's it. You take them past incapacitated with cold steel or hot lead and they're down. And silver is super lethal against them. They get no soak at all against it (barring a few Gifts, which most of them won't have) and all of its damage is aggravated. Silver is far more effective against them then it is against Shapeshifters.

Close. 1a) Garou can totally be killed with naked steel, but it's a bit of a project. Short of decapitation or grinding them into hamburger, you can put them into a brief coma with non-aggro past Incap but need an aggro finishing move. Aggro damage for them includes silver (usually; see below), but also fire, the teeth and claws of other supers (including but not limited to other Garou, vampires, fomori, etc), some forms of Magick, and the emanations of the Wyrm (ie: Toxic waste). 1b) Garou do regenerate Aggro damage, just not as fast. They get 1 health level back per day, which is much faster than anything except light bruises for normal humans. They can also shrug off all non-aggro instantly by popping 1 Rage point, which can refresh more-or-less quickly depending on the situation and GM fiat. 1c) Silver is both soakable and non-aggro by Homids and Lupus in their birth forms.

2) Werewolves aren't fucking human either. They're descended from humans or wolves, but they are killing machines driven by supernatural Rage. Even the most humanist, touchy feeley Werewolf is has impulses that drive them to commit appalling violence and is capable of berserker frenzies. They can't be "domesticated" either. Some of their political faction are pro mass human slaughter. They aren't going to check the legal system and think "let's totally come out and join with the Indians." The people they're going to be most politically sympathetic with are Shapeshifters.

Depends on the Tribe (not Pack, OP. Packs are small groups of allied individuals who may be from one Tribe or several). The Red Talons will probably blame humanity for the general shitshow of the setting and want to genocide them even more than before, but the Wendigo and Uktena who are not already full-blooded members of a native nation will probably gladly ally with one. The Glass Walkers would probably tend to prefer to try to work within society to promote green urban solutions, the Bone Gnawers will probably just blend in, and the Black Spiral Dancers and the Toxic Shamans play beer pong every Tuesday.

[Imperial Overlord]

Garou can be killed by non aggravated damage which takes them past incapacitated, it just isn't auto death. Pumping a few more bullets into their mortally wounded, incapacitated bodies will do it although head taking is the classic move. The Rage heal trick has draw backs (permanent injuries that start at scars and go up to severe disabilities) and that trick only works once per scene and the silver regen is slow and not a factor for combat, unlike Shapeshifter regen which can allow them to be dropped by silver bullets and get up and fight a few seconds later.

Yes, alliance conditions will vary by Tribe as well as Pack (although the OP specified they were transfered as packs), but Garou aren't vanilla humans, even the ones descended from humans. They're full of supernaturally potent Rage which makes their home lives extra super double plus fun and makes blending in with ordinary human society trying at best. They also won't have their Kinfolk networks so blending in with human society is going to be harder for the ones that want to try it.