Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

Post Reply
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Scenario: Following the events of The Last Jedi, Rey Nobody gets transported from the Star Wars galaxy to Westeros. She arrives in a forest in the North, somewhere near the Neck, shortly before Rhaegar elopes with Lyanna and kicks off Robert's Rebellion. She has no lightsaber (due to its destruction in TLJ), but retains her Force abilities. We'll say the Force exists in Westeros as well, so she can try training apprentices if she wishes.

How fucked is anyone who tries to attack her/attack the innocent in her presence? And how fucked is she trying to deal with Westrosi politics?*

Scenario Version Two:

The Falcon crash lands in Westeros with the Resistance survivors, same time, same place.


*That's what I think makes this scenario interesting to me, beyond the basic "which setting wins" and the obvious cathartic appeal of turning a woman with superpowers loose on the hyper-misogynist shit show that is Westeros. Rey is very powerful- but she demonstrates precisely zero understanding of history, philosophy, politics, or persuasive/diplomatic abilities. As of TLJ, she is a blunt instrument. She can kill anyone who crosses her barring maybe an indirect assassination. But her ability to handle political wrangling, or lack thereof, is going to leave her frustrated at every turn trying to deal with the underlying social problems of the Seven Kingdoms. Either she grows as a character in political savvy, or probably gets so frustrated she becomes bitter and burned out like Luke did for a time, or outright falls.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

Post by FaxModem1 »

Here's the issue I see with this scenario. Rey, as a character, is rather undefined. We don't really know what'd she do, aside from kick the keister of anyone who tries to harm her. Would she join Melissandre in bringing about the Fire Lord to Westeros by burning children? I dunno. Maybe.

Maybe she'd go to Syrio Forel for sword lessons, maybe she'd be Brienne's apprentice. Maybe she'd just be rather impressed with Podrick's.....assets, and marry him and live happily in a rural village somewhere until the White Walkers march in and kill everyone.
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-01-25 02:32am Here's the issue I see with this scenario. Rey, as a character, is rather undefined. We don't really know what'd she do, aside from kick the keister of anyone who tries to harm her. Would she join Melissandre in bringing about the Fire Lord to Westeros by burning children? I dunno. Maybe.

Maybe she'd go to Syrio Forel for sword lessons, maybe she'd be Brienne's apprentice. Maybe she'd just be rather impressed with Podrick's.....assets, and marry him and live happily in a rural village somewhere until the White Walkers march in and kill everyone.
Given the time period I chose and Rey's abilities, its more likely Brienne would be her apprentice. :wink:

Could actually be an interesting exercise in trying to nail down her character, though. Because as much as I like Rey overall, I'll agree that her development is rather... thinly-sketched, at present. So it would be interesting to see if we can glean enough details from the background noise of the films, so to speak, to get a better sense of who she is.

I would say that Rey is:

1. Impulsively kind and willing to reach out to others. Impulsive in general, really. As much as she starts out acting like a loner in TFA, she very quickly latches onto and befriends pretty nearly everyone she meets-BB8, Finn, Han, Leia, Chewie... she even tries with Kylo Ren, with fairly little prompting, and with Luke until their conflicting views cause them to come to blows. I'd say her isolated lifestyle on Jakku was probably more something imposed on her by circumstances than the lifestyle that suites her personality. This is a fairly consistent aspect of her character.

2. Related to the above, she has deep insecurities over her place in the universe and lack of a family. Probably some repressed lack of self-worth. Tends to latch on to anyone she thinks can provide a surrogate family (Han, Luke, Kylo). This makes her easy to mislead, at least in the short term.

3. She has power, and is willing to use it, but doesn't really understand it. This is, frankly, a dangerous combination, especially in a Jedi.

4. That said, I don't think her inclinations are naturally towards darkness, as Luke seemed to think for a time. If they were, the emotional blow Kylo delivered to her, and their subsequent confrontation, would likely have pushed her over the edge, I think. Actually, I think its notable that she can channel her anger without falling, at least thus far. Were there anyone left to teach her, I'd peg her for having an aptitude for the Vaapad style of light saber combat.

5. She's pretty much a blunt instrument in terms of her skill set, as noted above, but tends to learn quickly when circumstances compel her to do so.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10375
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

Post by Solauren »

If she ends up taking sides during 'Roberst Rebellion', that side probably wins.

After that, odds are, she ends up involved with one of the major families, and probably married into one of them.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Rey in Westeros (Star Wars/Game of Thrones cross).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Solauren wrote: 2019-01-27 11:01am If she ends up taking sides during 'Roberst Rebellion', that side probably wins.
Will she take sides at all, at least initially? My thought is that as an outsider, with no existing attachments to Westeros or this world, her first instinct would be to try to get back to the Resistance. Her sense of responsibility as a Jedi (or visions from the Force) might push her to help, but I suspect her first move, after she gets her bearings, is going to be to head to Old Town and try to study magic or something. I can see her setting up as an artisan (I'm assuming her skills working with salvaging/repairing machines would be at least somewhat transferable to other forms of craftsmanship, especially when aided by Force-based intuition and reflexes) or else as hired muscle or a criminal (Jedi mind trick: "This is not the coin purse you're looking for. You want to give it to me and forget this whole conversation ever happened.") while trying to study magic, maybe breaking into the Maesters' archives since I doubt they'll give some random peasant girl (as they see it) full access.

That said, Rey seems to be too impulsive and too compassionate a person to simply sit on the sidelines, especially in a country so... well, frankly awful as Westeros. So sooner or later she's getting drawn in. At soonest, she sees some peasants being raped/murdered/looted by the local brigands or lord on her way to Old Town, saves them, and gets branded either a hero or an outlaw depending on who's ass she kicked in the process. I could see her either getting drawn into one side or the other in the war, or becoming an outlaw, a sort of Robin-Hood style figure who champions the downtrodden but has allegiance to no king or lord.

At the latest, she makes it to Old Town and settles in, and is there when the Greyjoy Rebellion hits the place. She probably comes to the attention of the local nobility while fighting off Iron Born raiders, and I could see her becoming a local hero. This would put her in... Tyrell lands, I think? Which means she could very well end up in Renly's retinue in King's landing, which would be interesting. Especially as show Renly at least seems like a relatively decent person, and at least a little more open to things like independent women who can fight as well as a knight. :wink: I actually like this plot line, because Renly is almost nobody's favorite to be King despite being being better than a number of the other contenders, because its therefore a direction the story very rarely goes in in fandom, because it ties Rey into the main plot without just following the usual/canon route, and because it provides an easy way for Rey to meet both Brienne and Arya (who I imagine would have both heard of her as the female knight fighting for the Tyrells, and look up to her/want training from her).

Hmm, I wonder how Stannis's assassination attempt would go if Rey was there to intervene on Renly's behalf? Would it be possible to counter such magic with the Force?

Of course, by that point the butterfly effect might have changed things so much that the plot would follow a completely different course. Arya at least could conceivably never be born (I'm not sure if Brienne was born before Robert's Rebellion or not).

I can see her trying to train apprentices as well, now that she's apparently accepted her role as a Jedi. This could give her roots in Westros. I doubt she has the experience yet, or the understanding of the Force, to be a good mentor to a Force user, though. I can see her ending up creating a Westrosi Kylo Ren.

If Rey does pitch in with the Rebellion, though, I can't see her as likely to be fighting with House Targaryen unless some very particular events occur to cause her to align with them. Their story (especially the publicly-known version) isn't exactly sympathetic, and Rey's own experiences are more likely to make her identify with "Plucky outmatched rebels rising against the tyrant to protect/avenge their loved ones". The only real reasons to fight for the Targaryens are Westrosi feudal concepts of honour and duty from a vassal (does not apply to Rey on arrival), for money as a sellsword (Rey doesn't seem to be particularly driven by desire for financial gain, and in any case has more tasteful if less easy options for earning money), or because you're a conscript and have no choice (I pity anyone who thinks they can conscript Rey against her will).

I could see her sympathizing with Rhaegar and Lyanna if she knew the full facts, but barring that... no.

Long run, I expect the Will of the Force would guide her to the Wall.
After that, odds are, she ends up involved with one of the major families, and probably married into one of them.
That won't answer, really. How many noble families are going to want to marry someone with no lands and no titles into their family? How man Westrosi noblemen (who generally will want their wives to stay at home and pump out heirs) would appeal to Rey as a match?

Well actually, given the shippy stuff with Kylo in TLJ, she might end up falling for an abusive man. I suppose it comes down to whether her actions in TLJ are part of a pattern of behaviour, or a one-time mistake. Rey thus far does seem to latch very quickly onto almost anyone she meets, probably out of a need to fill the hole caused by the lack of a family identity. But I don't see her having a happy or lasting marriage with the average Westrosi nobleman.

I actually think Dorne would probably suite her best of all the Seven Kingdoms. Rey grew up in a desert, and IIRC Dorne is the Kingdom most open to both female warriors and less attached to the sexual mores of the rest of Westeros. Not sure what would bring Rey to Dorne, though. Though if she ends up in the Rebellion, I can see her ending up at the sack of King's Landing, maybe saving Elia and the kids from the Mountain and company. Which would endear her to Dorne, earn Tywin's lasting enmity, and probably make Robert and Ned rather wary of her, if not outright opposed to her.

That said, and I'll probably piss off both Rey fans (for obvious reasons) and Rey bashers (for going against the "overpowered Mary Sue" narrative) here... I'm actually not sure that TLJ-level Rey could take the Mountain, if you deprived her of her lightsaber (which this scenario does). Because there are basically two ways to fight the Mountain hand-to-hand: either match him strength for strength, or be faster, dodge his attacks, and slowly wear him down (as Oberyn did during their duel). Rey, to my knowledge, has never shown the raw physical strength, even drawing on the Force, to match the Mountain. She could try dodging, but in the more confined quarters of the Red Keep, surrounded by other hostile soldiers, and without Oberyn's poisoned weaponry, I don't think that would work. With a lightsaber she could kill him with a single stroke, of course, but without that, her only option is to use the Force, and as I've discussed at some length before, the single gaping weakness in Rey's practical skill set (in addition to her personal insecurities wrt her family and her lack of "book smarts") is that she has shown zero grasp of how to use or counter telekinesis in combat. The ability to reliably use the Force directly in combat is something that is pretty consistently reserved for only the most powerful and skilled masters (for the films, its pretty much just Dooku, Yoda, Palpatine, Vader, and maybe Snoke), probably because it requires a great deal of concentration/mental discipline to do while simultaneously fending off an opponent's attacks. And its something Rey can't do, so far as we've seen... at least not yet. Give her a year or two fighting in Robert's Rebellion to hone her skills, and that will probably change. But Rey limited to her demonstrated on-screen abilities, and deprived of a lightsaber, might actually lose to the Mountain (or Melisandra, or a dragon), unless she had some breathing space to focus on her telekinesis, and thought to use it to attack the Mountain (something she's never done thus far).

So actually, unless she can build a lightsaber with Westrosi parts (highly doubtful), Rey is not going to be an overwhelming powerhouse until she masters combat telekinesis. One of the single most dangerous human fighters? Without question. Able to singlehandedly take on an army and walk away? No.

Edit: Apologies for the long reply- I decided in replying to you to use your posts as a starting point to reply to the topic in general, so don't feel any obligation to reply to every point.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Post Reply