THRAWN: TREASON coming out in July

[Dalton]

I was pleasantly surprised that Timothy Zahn wrote a third Thrawn book. Looks like it's coming out July 23.

Goodreads

Grand Admiral Thrawn faces the ultimate test of his loyalty to the Empire in this epic Star Wars novel from bestselling author Timothy Zahn.

“If I were to serve the Empire, you would command my allegiance.”

Such was the promise Grand Admiral Thrawn made to Emperor Palpatine at their first meeting. Since then, Thrawn has been one of the Empire’s most effective instruments, pursuing its enemies to the very edges of the known galaxy. But as keen a weapon as Thrawn has become, the Emperor dreams of something far more destructive.

Now, as Thrawn’s TIE defender program is halted in favor of Director Krennic’s secret Death Star project, he realizes that the balance of power in the Empire is measured by more than just military acumen or tactical efficiency. Even the greatest intellect can hardly compete with the power to annihilate entire planets.

As Thrawn works to secure his place in the Imperial hierarchy, his former protégé Eli Vanto returns with a dire warning about Thrawn’s homeworld. Thrawn’s mastery of strategy must guide him through an impossible choice: duty to the Chiss Ascendancy, or fealty to the Empire he has sworn to serve. Even if the right choice means committing treason.

[Gandalf]

Always amusing to see "Thrawn; Likeable Nazi" coming back.

[Galvatron]

Unless this one has a time skip that goes beyond the end of Rebels, it already sounds like it'll be an inconsequential midquel set between the end of season three and the series finale just like the last novel was.

I'll read it anyway.

[The Romulan Republic]

Always amusing to see "Thrawn; Likeable Nazi" coming back.

Its just an extension of "Rommel: the Good Nazi" wank, since IIRC Thrawn was modeled partly on Rommel.

[Dalton]

Wow, this went from 0 to joysucking shitposts within a couple hours.

[Crazedwraith]

Wow, this went from 0 to joysucking shitposts within a couple hours.

Looking at the time stamps it took about 8 minutes.

[Galvatron]

I just hope it tells us what happened to Thrawn after the end of Rebels, "likeable NazI" or not.

[Gandalf]

Always amusing to see "Thrawn; Likeable Nazi" coming back.

Its just an extension of "Rommel: the Good Nazi" wank, since IIRC Thrawn was modeled partly on Rommel.

Huh. I did not know that he was modeled on Rommel. Weird that they both seem to have magic image rehabilitation.

Wow, this went from 0 to joysucking shitposts within a couple hours.

Looking at the time stamps it took about 8 minutes.

What was "joysucking" about what I said?

[Crazedwraith]

Looking at the time stamps it took about 8 minutes.

What was "joysucking" about what I said?

To state the obvious; describing Thrawn as a 'likeable nazi' is both accurate and I infer meant to get a rise out of people and wag a finger at them for liking a character who props up a despicable regime.

Editted repeatedly because i am an idiot who can't quote

[The Romulan Republic]

Always amusing to see "Thrawn; Likeable Nazi" coming back.

Its just an extension of "Rommel: the Good Nazi" wank, since IIRC Thrawn was modeled partly on Rommel.

Huh. I did not know that he was modeled on Rommel. Weird that they both seem to have magic image rehabilitation.

To be specific, Thrawn was modeled on a number of historical military commanders (plus a bit of Sherlock Holmes, perhaps), of whom Rommel was (to the best of my recollection), one.

[Gandalf]

To state the obvious; describing Thrawn as a 'likeable nazi' is both accurate and I infer meant to get a rise out of people and wag a finger at them for liking a character who props up a despicable regime.

No finger wagging intended, though I didn't expect the reaction that I got. Do people not like being reminded that Space Super Tactician Thrawn is also Space Nazi Thrawn?

[Crazedwraith]

I believe my response covered everything that needed to be said . I'll leave you to your nice 'who me?' Innocent troll routine.

[Gandalf]

How is that trolling? For me, the most interesting thing about Thrawn isn't in universe, but rather his place within the wider fandom. He started as a scary villain Nazi, then became the nice Nazi. Why this apparently bothers people as a point of discussion remains quite strange.

[Galvatron]

Isn't he just a typical anti-villain?

[Dalton]

How is that trolling? For me, the most interesting thing about Thrawn isn't in universe, but rather his place within the wider fandom. He started as a scary villain Nazi, then became the nice Nazi. Why this apparently bothers people as a point of discussion remains quite strange.

Your tone felt judgmental. You may not have intended that. Thrawn, to me, has a lot more nuance than "Likable Space Nazi". He always seemed like a big-picture type, and aligned with whatever power suited his goals.

[Esquire]

Indeed. In the old EU, wasn't his deal that he knew about the Yuzzhan Vong somehow and thought, correctly, that any hypothetical New Republic was going to botch it so badly that the Empire worked out to be a lesser evil?

[Gandalf]

Your tone felt judgmental. You may not have intended that. Thrawn, to me, has a lot more nuance than "Likable Space Nazi". He always seemed like a big-picture type, and aligned with whatever power suited his goals.

Indeed, and that big picture includes... helping the Empire extend across the galaxy. How much blood is on his hands from that alone?

[FaxModem1]

Your tone felt judgmental. You may not have intended that. Thrawn, to me, has a lot more nuance than "Likable Space Nazi". He always seemed like a big-picture type, and aligned with whatever power suited his goals.

Indeed, and that big picture includes... helping the Empire extend across the galaxy. How much blood is on his hands from that alone?

Probably less than the casualties from the Vong war, if you want to do the math. The fall of Coruscant to the Vong alone and all the civilians killed there probably tilted the scales in favor of a Thrawn controlled galaxy.

[Solauren]

It was retroactively established that Thrawns people knew about the Vong due to the Vong's probing, and that was part of the reason he got himself exiled to join the Empire. The Emperor promised to protect Thrawns people in exchange for his service, and intelligence about the Vong.

[Rogue 9]

It was retroactively established that Thrawns people knew about the Vong due to the Vong's probing, and that was part of the reason he got himself exiled to join the Empire. The Emperor promised to protect Thrawns people in exchange for his service, and intelligence about the Vong.

Not only is that silly (he didn't deign to tell anyone else?), but Disney Thrawn doesn't have that excuse.

[The Romulan Republic]

Your tone felt judgmental. You may not have intended that. Thrawn, to me, has a lot more nuance than "Likable Space Nazi". He always seemed like a big-picture type, and aligned with whatever power suited his goals.

Indeed, and that big picture includes... helping the Empire extend across the galaxy. How much blood is on his hands from that alone?

Indeed. I tend to take the view that why someone was a collaborator matters far less than that they were one.

[Galvatron]

Zahn is the one who makes him likeable by putting him in situations where he's always the lesser evil than everyone else around him. He's a bit less so in the cartoon, I think.

[Reyvan]

I feel like Zahn got too attached to Thrawn, and has tried to whitewash him a bit. When Thrawn was introduced in Rebels, (which came out before the first of the new Thrawn books), he was introduced as having eliminated a rebel cell but at the cost of high civilian casualties.

His characterization in the show seemed to be consistent with this, especially considering his actions in the finale, where, as I recall, he does attempt to bombard a city.

In Zahn's version of events, Governor Pryce is actually the one who destroyed the city referred to in Thrawns introduction, then persuaded Thrawn to take credit for it.

I havent read the second Thrawn book, so I'm not sure how his characterization is in that.

Basically I think over the past few decades, Zahm has gone from treating Thrawn as a villain to treating him as an anti-hero.

While the original Thrawn was less cartoonishly evil than many other Star Wars villains, as I recall he did have a Darth Vader moment when he had his noghri execute an officer for incompetence on the bridge of the Chimaera.

Zahn's new Thrawn doesn't seem like the kind of character who could do that, he seems to be written as too "good" (though maybe the second Thrawn book proves me wrong) .

[Galvatron]

If anything, the second Thrawn book makes him even more likeable.

[Gandalf]

Zahn is the one who makes him likeable by putting him in situations where he's always the lesser evil than everyone else around him. He's a bit less so in the cartoon, I think.

At the same time, whoever is running the SW property keeps letting him do that, and doing weirdly similar things with other Imperial parts of the SW property.

I'd be curious to know the timeline of their "Imperial Rehabilitation" trend, and how it tracks against wider societal trends.