Jon Arryn arranges for King Robert's kids to Water-dance (Game of Thrones RAR)

[FaxModem1]

Before the events of his untimely death, King Robert is peeved at any perceived weakness in his children, and tells Jon Arryn to arrange for a fighting tutor for his children. Due to Cersei's harping about not wanting Joffrey to be hurt, Syrio Forel is given the task, as he is a teacher of Water-dancing. How does this affect things going on out?

[The Romulan Republic]

No amount of training will make Joffrey suck less. 50-50 his whining and incompetence pisses off Syrio so much he smacks the shit out of Joffrey, and gets executed for his trouble.

I doubt they'd train Myrcella, since she's a girl and Westeros is a misogynist shit hole.

It might put a little spine in Tomen, which might help a few years down the line once Joffrey kicks the bucket.

[Ralin]

A huge number of problems in this series would have been solved by just sending Joffery to foster at Winterfell or Casterly Rock. This won't accomplish the all-important goal of getting Joffery away from Cersei and Robert's toxic parenting, but giving him a potential male role model who won't take his crap and isn't Robert or the Hound could be a good thing. Can't say it's enough to make a significant difference though, but it's not like Joffery was born bad or anything like that.

[The Romulan Republic]

A huge number of problems in this series would have been solved by just sending Joffery to foster at Winterfell or Casterly Rock. This won't accomplish the all-important goal of getting Joffery away from Cersei and Robert's toxic parenting, but giving him a potential male role model who won't take his crap and isn't Robert or the Hound could be a good thing. Can't say it's enough to make a significant difference though, but it's not like Joffery was born bad or anything like that.

I disagree. People don't turn out like that just because they had a neglectful father and a mother who spoiled them. Something is just wrong in that kid's head.

[Ralin]

I disagree. People don't turn out like that just because they had a neglectful father and a mother who spoiled them. Something is just wrong in that kid's head.

Robert did more than neglect him and Cersei did more than spoil him. Cersei (a character I really like, by the way) was a vicious idiot whose preferred reaction to any sort of challenge was to smash it down. This is subtext, but in as much as Joffery had a relationship with Robert he knew him as this big hulking warrior who everyone admired and respected because of how good he was at pounding his enemies into submission. When a kid grows up with one parent teaching him that he’s above everyone else and that he should smack down anyone who challenges him as thoroughly as possible and one parent serving as a sort of aspirational figure for what happens when someone succeeds really well at doing that…not hard to see how you get Joffery.

There’s a scene in the books we hear a character relating the time young Joffery cut open a pregnant cat, showed Robert the kittens and Robert slugged him so hard Cersei thought he was dead. People usually point at this is a sign that Joffery was a budding serial killer, but in context it’s a lot more likely he was emulating his father, the mighty hunter who would go out into the woods and come back with a dead boar or stag and be praised and feted by all and sundry for being so fucking awesome.

Notice how Marcella and Tommen don’t have any of Joffery’s horrible personality traits? It’s not a coincidence that Joffery is the first-born and therefore the heir and therefore the one who got most of the parental guidance and grooming.

[Solauren]

One has to wonder if that shot to the head gave Joffery brain damage.

[The Romulan Republic]

I disagree. People don't turn out like that just because they had a neglectful father and a mother who spoiled them. Something is just wrong in that kid's head.

Robert did more than neglect him and Cersei did more than spoil him. Cersei (a character I really like, by the way) was a vicious idiot whose preferred reaction to any sort of challenge was to smash it down. This is subtext, but in as much as Joffery had a relationship with Robert he knew him as this big hulking warrior who everyone admired and respected because of how good he was at pounding his enemies into submission. When a kid grows up with one parent teaching him that he’s above everyone else and that he should smack down anyone who challenges him as thoroughly as possible and one parent serving as a sort of aspirational figure for what happens when someone succeeds really well at doing that…not hard to see how you get Joffery.

There’s a scene in the books we hear a character relating the time young Joffery cut open a pregnant cat, showed Robert the kittens and Robert slugged him so hard Cersei thought he was dead. People usually point at this is a sign that Joffery was a budding serial killer, but in context it’s a lot more likely he was emulating his father, the mighty hunter who would go out into the woods and come back with a dead boar or stag and be praised and feted by all and sundry for being so fucking awesome.

Notice how Marcella and Tommen don’t have any of Joffery’s horrible personality traits? It’s not a coincidence that Joffery is the first-born and therefore the heir and therefore the one who got most of the parental guidance and grooming.

Yeah, I like Cersei too, while fully recognizing that she is a horrible person who even before she went all murder-happy should not have been within a mile of any position of authority.

Cersei and Robert certainly fed Joffrey's worst qualities, rather than curbing or redirecting them, and an adult punching a kid is just flat-out not okay (though probably pretty routine discipline in a pre-modern society), but I don't think you can put it all just on him. Normal kids don't cut open a pregnant cat to show off the kittens. That's future serial killer shit. That kid had a sadistic streak in him that went deeper than bad parenting, I believe.

As to why Myrcella and Tomen didn't- genetic lottery, I guess (as an aside, I really sympathize with the Baratheon kids minus Joffrey- they come off as some of the most likable or at least not horrible people in the setting, they had a horrible situation which utterly not of their making, which they were born into and could never have escaped, and pretty much any scenario that would lead to a good outcome for Westeros, ie the defeat of their twisted family, would lead to their horrible executions/murders simply for being born in the wrong family tree).