Strange New Worlds (spoilers)

[bilateralrope]

The first episode aired last week. The overall plot of the episode was Prime Directive episode, with nothing much more to say about the plot. But a few details that stand out:
- The whole situation was Discovery's fault for having that big a battle too close to a pre-warp civilization.
- We get a clear statement that the eugenics war and WWIII were the same war, people just changed what they were calling it as it was happening.
- I don't like them bringing in Uhura here, as it implies she's going to be working that communications station for over a decade with only her rank changing. Also, I'd prefer new characters instead of reusing TOS characters.

Two bits of technology we don't see later in the timeline:
- An injection that can change a persons appearance to a different species.
- The transporter can change a persons clothes during transport.

I can see why that injection fell out of use. Surgically altering someone's appearance won't undo itself in a sudden and painful way. It's a bit harder to understand why the transporter stopped being used to change clothing.

[Crazedwraith]

Can't see it in the UK until Paramount+ launches and even then I'm iffy on getting another streaming service.

Ugh, I hate the retcon about the Eugenics Wars and WWIII. They were separate and the Eugenics Wars was in the 90s, just accept that the Star Trek timeline has already diverged from real life.

[Khaat]

A nod to older non-Trek sci-fi: the origin of the forest/garden domes of Starfleet HQ. Silent Running: seed ships are sent out to survive the coming conflict on Earth with skeleton crews. When a peace is made and the cargo no longer 'needed', the ships' cargo was to be destroyed (they weren't all destroyed).

Uhura is a cadet on rotation, not even yet a Lieutenant? Are there only 15 people left on Earth to crew the Enterprise? Can't we have a Star Trek that doesn't buy legitimacy with more known characters?

The opening scene, though:
"It's classified"
"I have higher clearance than you."
My immediate response was "General Order 7 'higher'?" (Pilot/The Menagerie pts 1&2) but only because I never watched Discovery.

[Batman]

Changed history and never again used technology excused because this is the DISCO timeline not the original one. Why would a "Warp bomb" have a signature similar to a drive system? It's just an M/AM bomb, none of the space-warping that make up the warp drive's functionality would be needed.
Another shit zero nacelle design. Blech.

[Crazedwraith]

Disco timeline is the original one. Officially at least.

[Batman]

And 'only' officially. Realistically it cannot be.

[ray245]

One thing I love is how seemingly angry all the alt-right is becoming, they are foaming at the idea that a new Trek show can be so well-liked. I can't wait as their youtube channels and etc lose subscribers.

[Batman]

The fascists being angry something with a left-wing message is succesful. Totally unexpected.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

The "figuring out how to communicate with super alien/plot device" plot came a bit too soon considering DISCO S4 just ended like a couple months ago. At least there was still some sense of wonder in regards of the (probably will be forgotten) super aliens and the "destined to happen" part.

Additionally, is this the first time we've seen a Trek major ship being shot at (to 40% shields) and the bridge (as well as the whole ship?) seems decently intact? No personnel flying all over the place nor exploding consoles, nor "heavy losses on deck X".....etc

[Batman]

No? How many photon torpedoes' worth of fire did the E-nil eat when they met Nomad again with little apparent effect?

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

No? How many photon torpedoes' worth of fire did the E-nil eat when they met Nomad again with little apparent effect?

I checked memory alpha and it said a firepower equivalent of 90 photorps lowered the shields to 80%. I guess I'll go watch "The Changeling" again. Maybe the producers are considering to reduce the "damage while shields are still up" trope?

However, I find nu-Trek ship combat kind of extremely plot based in some ways. Back in DISCO S2 it was like 20 Section 31 middle sized ships and their light ships vs DISCO and Ent-nil and their group. With not much really happening to DISCO nor ENT (as opposed to what would happen based on TNG-era ship combat)

[ray245]

The fascists being angry something with a left-wing message is succesful. Totally unexpected.

It's their desperate and pathetic attempts at trying to make others hate SNW that's funny.

[bilateralrope]

Uhura's plot about her being unsure about staying in Starfleet would be stronger if we didn't already know that she's going to stay.

Is it just me, or are the people on that planet going to be in for a rough time ?
All the life on that planet is adapted for the moisture level it had at the beginning of the episode. Adding a significant amount of moisture sounds like major disruption to their ecosystem.

[Knife]

Surprisingly I like it. I hate Disco and not that found of Picard, though at least Picard is watchable. But SNW seems like actually Trek. The plots are very Trekkie and they do toss in references of other Trek stuff that are nice.

I too worry about the Uhura character. Seems forced. Chapple and Spok would have been enough to nod to the original.

As far as visuals. Not sure I like the new version of the Enterprise yet. Her lines are good as far as not being JJ verse bad. But I see they still have that stupid window on the bridge. Also don't know why the did that cut out on the forward hull for lights. Looks weird and breaks up the symmetry of the ship. Oh, and those windows on the edge of the saucer look awful.

The interior sets look pretty plastic and shiny fake too, though I thought the bridge looked neat.

I picked out those same 2 issues myself, the shot to change your face and the transporter changing your clothes. I don't know why that had to go that route either. They had to make the scene with them getting in the transporter and the scene of arriving. Could have just had them all dressed up and changed going into the transporter.

And for gods sake, can someone please roll up their sleeve before getting a shot. FFS.

Other than that, I like it. I also think I caught the Admiral was April, the first Captain of the Enterprise. Nice little bit there.

[bilateralrope]

I picked out those same 2 issues myself, the shot to change your face and the transporter changing your clothes. I don't know why that had to go that route either. They had to make the scene with them getting in the transporter and the scene of arriving. Could have just had them all dressed up and changed going into the transporter.

Yeah. I can't see it being worth the risk of blowing your cover because you don't know how to unbutton your clothing.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Episode 4 has Enterprise vs. Gorns in space combat, and it managed to use like all of the tropes of a submarine combat film. No objections since it was quite a fun watch seeing how Gorns turned from "scary space monster" in TOS and ENT (and even in the beginning of SNW when La'an talks about her experiences) to a depiction of their space combat.

[Crazedwraith]

Did no one get past episode 4? Lol. I actually think that was one of the stronger episodes. Used the ensemble well.

I finished s1 on paramount plus this week. So here is a lot of waffle about my thoughts on it...

So I watch the first season of Strange New Worlds, and to be honest, I've been a bit hesitant to watch it and biased against it because like The Orville it's heralded by people who dislike Discovery and Picard as 'real proper Trek', and since I like Discovery and Picard or at least think they are at least okay and underrated, that annoyed me greatly.

Now of course, I watched it and it is pretty good. There's no denying that. It's upbeat. It's characters are likeable. Anson Mount as Pike is especially charismatic. I think it's a triumph of style and tone because I'm sure there are as many continuity issues and just oddities that you could pick up on compared to Enterprise or Disco but people don't want to.

It's episodic and that's a strength and a weakness, it lets you do a lot of different stories but those stories have to take up 50 odd minutes time and then you're done. There a couple of stories episodes 5 and 6 stand out where they took far to long to get to want feels like it should have been the meat of the episode which makes everything wrap up quickly and patly. There's a moral dilemma in episode 6 that Pike just has to… accept because there's no time to deal with it.

The short episode count is always an issue. The only series were like 250% the size of this one mid 20s number of episodes rather than 10 so there isn't room for everyone in the ensemble to shine.

The characters well… there's a lot of returning characters from TOS and to be honest I like them all but it feels iffy continuity wise. M'Benga is going to go from CMO to supporting Doc in TOS and having him and Chapel and Uhura all as part of Pike's crew doesn't seem to meld well with The Menagarie heavily implying (iirc it's been a long time) that Spock is the only one who knows him.

It's not the kind of show where you'd worry about the characters overly but it remains we know the fates of a lot of the cast. Pike, Spock, Uhura, Chapel, even secondary cast like Sam Kirk. And La'an Noonien Singh descended from Khan, the number of TOS connections seems forced like it's a very small universe and so far aside from a brief moment with Una/Number One La'an connection to Khan hasn't been relevant, so there's no reason she couldn't have not been a Noonien Singh. Likewise Uhura as a gifted cadet uncertain if she wants to be in starfleet, there's no reason that character had to be Uhura.

So the other original characters of note are helm officer Ortegas and Hemmer the aenar engineer. I really like the concept of Hemmer, it makes sense to have more Aliens on board and he would be from a canonical but rarely seen founding member of the federation. (when are we getting a tellarite character?) but they underused him and then killed him, sadly.

The last two episode were really quite iffy conceptually for me. The Gorn are no basically xenomorphs that you have to kill and the message of the finale is 'pike sucks, kirk's great because he's willing to kick ass'. For all the other series get complained about for shooting things to solve your problems this is actually the only series that really came out actually did that. Contrast to Discovery Season 4 which really was about making peaceful contact with a very alien and apparently hostile society.

It's kind of to the show's credit that they followed up on Pike learning about his accident in Discovery but the message that he shouldn't prevent it because inevitably he sucks and Spock and Kirk are what's need to save the universe is just so… eh. No. It's bad thematically and logically. There's really nothing he can do where he and the cadets are fine without Spock dying? It's contrived. Tell all the cadets not to turn up and then retire yourself and let Kirk take over the Enterprise if you must, how does that end in disaster? Like I know they've got to enforce continuity some how but still, this makes little sense.

As to Kirk, In the finale he's an alternate timeline Kirk and he's actually pretty good. Sam talking about him makes him sound like a JJVerse stereotype of Kirk as a renegade womanising maverick that he just wasn't in TOS and is massively overstated by popular culture. But his actual character is good. He's brave, inventive, and principalled and even though he disagrees with Pike he's still respectful, attentive and suggest compromises between there point of view and there seems to be genuine liking and respect between them which is what I always want in crossovers.

That said I'm less happy he'll be back in season 2 for the aforementioned continuity snarl with The Menagarie.

Hopes for season 2? Give Number one, Ortegas and Sam Kirk focus episodes or at least more material Don't bring in more TOS characters like Scotty. Give us another original engineer and don't kill em.

[Broomstick]

Did no one get past episode 4?

Since my library got a DVD of the first season I was recently able to watch the whole thing.

So the other original characters of note are helm officer Ortegas and Hemmer the aenar engineer. I really like the concept of Hemmer, it makes sense to have more Aliens on board and he would be from a canonical but rarely seen founding member of the federation.

I want to know how a blind man is able to use touch screen controls geared towards visual feedback.

I could throw out some workarounds - I once worked with a blind co-worker and helped solve the problem of her being able to use the office microwave that only utilized a touch screen for controls - but I didn't see any of them. So I'm really, really curious how that worked. Not seeing that kept breaking my disbelief.

It's kind of to the show's credit that they followed up on Pike learning about his accident in Discovery but the message that he shouldn't prevent it because inevitably he sucks and Spock and Kirk are what's need to save the universe is just so… eh. No. It's bad thematically and logically.

I didn't get the message that Pike "sucked". He is different, that is true, but it seems that from the beginning of the revelation of future fate that Pike, essentially, giving his health/body/life up for others has been portrayed as a noble sacrifice.

As to Kirk, In the finale he's an alternate timeline Kirk and he's actually pretty good. Sam talking about him makes him sound like a JJVerse stereotype of Kirk as a renegade womanising maverick that he just wasn't in TOS and is massively overstated by popular culture. But his actual character is good.

I had the impression that it was in part big brother disparaging little brother.

[Lord Revan]

From what little I've seen of SNW I didn't get impression that Pike is suppose to "suck", more that for that event (if it's the episode I think you're referring to, they needed a leader more like Kirk and less like Pike), both Kirk and Pike have been shown to have certain strengths, it's just that Pike is more like Picard in that he's more diplomatic and cautious, while Kirk is more aggressive and in that instant a more aggressive captain was what was needed.

[bilateralrope]

Another Strange New Worlds trailer is out. Once again Paramount region locks it for reasons that elude me. Once again, it's immediately uploaded by many other Youtube channels. Here's one link



We are getting a crossover with Lower Decks. All done in live action because the Lower Decks characters look like their voice actors.

[Evilchumlee]

From what little I've seen of SNW I didn't get impression that Pike is suppose to "suck", more that for that event (if it's the episode I think you're referring to, they needed a leader more like Kirk and less like Pike), both Kirk and Pike have been shown to have certain strengths, it's just that Pike is more like Picard in that he's more diplomatic and cautious, while Kirk is more aggressive and in that instant a more aggressive captain was what was needed.

Yeah I think the idea that Pike "sucks" is alittle bizarre.

I would kind of put Pike kind of right in the middle of Picard and Kirk... Pike is cautious, he wants to find the peaceful solution, but is also perfectly fine with going rogue and breaking every possible rule if it gets the job done.

Pike is also saddled with the nearly debilitating trauma of knowing his fate, and trying to prevent it from happening. That was the real point of the "Balance of Terror" episode... Pike coming to terms with what he knows will happen to him.

[Crazedwraith]

The point was Pike was deemed not the right Captain for the job in the Balance Of Terror situation but also in any timeline and scenario where Pike avoids his fate inevitably end in disaster. If that doesn't mean you suck as Captain I don't know what does.

Of course someone on another forum pointed out Pike supposedly sealed his fate when he took the time crystal in Discovery so maybe time crystal magic is why every scenario where he changes his fate ends in disaster.

Yes, obviously it was an episode to put to bed the plot of Pike knowing his future but the means of doing so by saying a) you are too peaceful and b) Spoxk has a special destiny and you don't was... odd.

[Evilchumlee]

I think the whole "trying to change the future" thing is a fairly common trope and I don't think the universe basically fighting back against it means that person sucks. It means... they have a predetermined path, and attempting to stray from that path causes problems.

It does seem that "the timeline" will try to correct itself, at least to some extent. Even offshoot to the Kelvin Timeline where at the very least Kirk has lived a very different life and we still end up in a similar situation. The Powers That Be will seemingly attempt to correct the timeline, be it through some kind of intelligent manipulation or a natural force.

[Lord Revan]

It should be noted that the Romulan incursion was essentially a fixed point in time (to use the Doctor Who term) since development of the Bird of Prey and the Plasma weapon would have been all ready underway and unless Pike has foreknowledge and actively tries to avoid being sent the Enterprise would be the most likely ship to be sent to to investigate the incursion.

We also know there are people whose job it is to "fix" the timeline (from VOY so this is from pre-2009 Trek).

[Crazedwraith]

I think the whole "trying to change the future" thing is a fairly common trope and I don't think the universe basically fighting back against it means that person sucks. It means... they have a predetermined path, and attempting to stray from that path causes problems.

It does seem that "the timeline" will try to correct itself, at least to some extent. Even offshoot to the Kelvin Timeline where at the very least Kirk has lived a very different life and we still end up in a similar situation. The Powers That Be will seemingly attempt to correct the timeline, be it through some kind of intelligent manipulation or a natural force.

That's absolute bullshit. There are no Powers That Be that exist in Star Trek.

There's a mass of time travel episodes in Star Trek and none of them try to pull off 'it's self correcting". JJVerse would not be a thing if it was self-correcting. Temporal Cold War could not be a thing if it was self correcting, Star Trek IV could not be a thing if it was self correcting. ( Unless you positing the whales dropped dead immediately after the film?) They wouldn't need a temporal prime directive or policing agency if it was self correcting. The list goes on.

There's nothing to suggest in the episode that Pike fucked up the Balance Of Terror scenario because of the powers of be, they just straight up said he was the wrong person and handled the situation wrong.

It's simply a really fucking stupid stipulation to make sure continuity is maintained.