Origins of life

[Shrykull]

I was talking to this atheist once who said that evolution can't explain the origins of life, only how life changes, I was wondering, if we knew the exactly processees by which the first cell was formed over a couple billion years would we be able to make any living thing from scratch, and design it's DNA atom by atom. Wonder if someday some supercomputer will be able to put the exact steps together and find out.

[neoolong]

Well for one thing, it isn't that evolution can't explain how life began, it's just that it isn't meant to.

And just knowing the process of how the first cell was developed isn't really necessary to make our own forms of life. We would of course have to be able to compile enough information to find compatible DNA sequences that will make a completely new animal that can actually survive.

Even then it isn't simply a matter of knowing. We know just about how a star comes into being, but it doesn't mean we can create one.

The process you're suggesting is more complicated than would be useful. You're better of just implanting new genes into existing animals instead of trying to manufacture completely new ones.

[Kuroneko]

I was talking to this atheist once who said that evolution can't explain the origins of life, only how life changes...

Correct. There are scientific theories that explain how it started, but evolution isn't it.

I was wondering, if we knew the exactly processees by which the first cell was formed over a couple billion years would we be able to make any living thing from scratch, and design it's DNA atom by atom. Wonder if someday some supercomputer will be able to put the exact steps together and find out.

Impossible. The steps it took on the subcellular and DNA level will never be more than somewhat educated guesses, if that. Even if we could model the ways the environment affects lifeforms at such a scale with reasonable precision (an extremely generous assumption), we still wouldn't be able to quantify the relevant environmental factors that far in the past. You're simply asking for too much precision when you ask for 'exact processes'. No matter how powerful your supercomputer is, it will fail simply for lack of adequate information.

[Darth Wong]

I was talking to this atheist once who said that evolution can't explain the origins of life, only how life changes

Are you sure this wasn't a creationist? By the way, the origins of life are generally theorized to be some kind of RNA-like molecule or perhaps a simpler self-replicating protein chain (that theory is called "abiogenesis", not evolution). Of course, there is always the alternate "theory" that some invisible man in the sky just willed it to happen, thus eliminating the need for any physical mechanisms or testable predictions or remote semblance of scientific method at all ...

I was wondering, if we knew the exactly processees by which the first cell was formed over a couple billion years would we be able to make any living thing from scratch, and design it's DNA atom by atom. Wonder if someday some supercomputer will be able to put the exact steps together and find out.

Designing DNA would require far more knowledge than we currently possess, but it's not theoretically impossible. Most of our DNA is junk anyway; one can only wonder what kind of creature would result from a properly engineered DNA instead of a jury-rigged one.

[His Divine Shadow]

Designing DNA would require far more knowledge than we currently possess, but it's not theoretically impossible. Most of our DNA is junk anyway; one can only wonder what kind of creature would result from a properly engineered DNA instead of a jury-rigged one.

It would be kinda hard though to separate the junk from the real thing, we have much junk in us, for example, some millions of years ago I think it was, our ancestors got some virus or something, and this has become embedded in our genes now, or part of it, the result is that some things appear to have a sweet taste to us.

Though I wonder what a human would be like with all the truly useless junk gone....

[Rye]

Designing DNA would require far more knowledge than we currently possess, but it's not theoretically impossible. Most of our DNA is junk anyway; one can only wonder what kind of creature would result from a properly engineered DNA instead of a jury-rigged one.

It would be kinda hard though to separate the junk from the real thing, we have much junk in us, for example, some millions of years ago I think it was, our ancestors got some virus or something, and this has become embedded in our genes now, or part of it, the result is that some things appear to have a sweet taste to us.

Though I wonder what a human would be like with all the truly useless junk gone....

I don't think any of it's truly useless to be honest, i'm guessing it serves SOME purpose, whether it be "insurance evolution" or something i dunno.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

I was wondering, if we knew the exactly processees by which the first cell was formed over a couple billion years would we be able to make any living thing from scratch, and design it's DNA atom by atom. Wonder if someday some supercomputer will be able to put the exact steps together and find out.

Designing DNA would require far more knowledge than we currently possess, but it's not theoretically impossible. Most of our DNA is junk anyway; one can only wonder what kind of creature would result from a properly engineered DNA instead of a jury-rigged one.

If a designed by a man it would probably have a beautiful face, big breasts, a nice body, and a an enormous sexual appetite. Oh, and it would be genetically incapable of nagging or having mood swings.

If designed by a woman it would only have the ability to toil endlessly to earn money so the woman could go shopping constantly. Oh, and it would probably be engineered to "listen".

[neoolong]

If a designed by a man it would probably have a beautiful face, big breasts, a nice body, and a an enormous sexual appetite. Oh, and it would be genetically incapable of nagging or having mood swings.

If designed by a woman it would only have the ability to toil endlessly to earn money so the woman could go shopping constantly. Oh, and it would probably be engineered to "listen".

Let us hope that women never do it. It would make guys like me obsolete.

[Shrykull]

Are you sure this wasn't a creationist?

He claims to be an "agnostic atheist" and a negative atheist, that a positive atheist is one that says "There are no gods" and a negative one says "I don't believe in any gods" Seems that agnostic is a meaningless term though, that he couldn't prove the existence of a god or gods, but he doesn't believe in any, but isn't that a given already? Here's his page http://hometown.aol.com/agnosticatheist ... ofile.html, well maybe no one did observe the big bang or the first self replicating molecules, but nobody saw OJ kill Nicole and Ron either, but it's almost certain he did it based on the evidence.

By the way, the origins of life are generally theorized to be some kind of RNA-like molecule or perhaps a simpler self-replicating protein chain (that theory is called "abiogenesis", not evolution).

Hmm, isn't "spontaneous generation" another name for that? or maybe not, that people used to believe that life could come directly from inanimate objects that if a barrel was dirty enough it would magically spawn maggots, no eggs no nothing, just the maggots appeared out of thin air

Designing DNA would require far more knowledge than we currently possess, but it's not theoretically impossible. Most of our DNA is junk anyway; one can only wonder what kind of creature would result from a properly engineered DNA instead of a jury-rigged one.

Hmm, wonder if the blade runner replicants were like this, I had thought originally they were machines, as in mechanical machines, that androids were like data- not organic

[Shrykull]

here's the correct URL http://hometown.aol.com/agnosticatheist ... ofile.html

[Morat]

Hmm, isn't "spontaneous generation" another name for that? or maybe not, that people used to believe that life could come directly from inanimate objects that if a barrel was dirty enough it would magically spawn maggots, no eggs no nothing, just the maggots appeared out of thin air

No, abiogenesis just means that non-living material became living material at some point.

Basically, you would have a pool of chemicals that has lots of carbon and nitrogen and such, then the carbons and other stuff react to produce more complex molecules. Those complex molecules start replicating themselves, which begins the process of evolution, causing the molecules to develop new traits that improve its chances of replicating themselves. At some point in that process, you have something that you can call life.

[Queeb Salaron]

The more I look at Chick.com, the more I keep thinking that it's gotta be some kind of joke site. I mean, no one is THAT fundie, are they??

[neoolong]

The more I look at Chick.com, the more I keep thinking that it's gotta be some kind of joke site. I mean, no one is THAT fundie, are they??

No, he really is that much of a moron.

Have you seen godhatesfags.com?

[Queeb Salaron]

The more I look at Chick.com, the more I keep thinking that it's gotta be some kind of joke site. I mean, no one is THAT fundie, are they??

No, he really is that much of a moron.

Have you seen godhatesfags.com?

Yes, we're intimate acquaintances.

I curse those sithspawned bastards with every extra breath I have.

[Sokar]

Hmm, wonder if the blade runner replicants were like this, I had thought originally they were machines, as in mechanical machines, that androids were like data- not organic

The Blade Runner replicants are organic, same as you and me, but they have been engineered for their specific tasks. "More human than human.." to quote Dr. Tyrell.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Abiogenisis is to spontanious generation, what spontanious combustion is to "fire from heaven."
The firsts being observed facts.(There was no life, or fire, then there was life, and fire.)
The second being a supernatural explanation of the firsts.(magic, not a physical process made it happen)