Mace V Jango: No Reek

[Crazedwraith]

So I'm an anti-mandowank kind of mood at the moment so you know which way I go this but for real:

In AotC, Jango leaps down to attack Mace Windu directly. Got trampled by a reek and then gets his head chopped off. Good Riddance I say.

Now before Mace reaches him he does try to get away using his Jetpack but it fails, presumably because of the whole super-space-rhino trampling. What if we take that out of the equation?

If Jango still has his full arsenal, fully functional can he take out Mace? Or does he just last a little long before the slicey-dicey?

[Lord Revan]

I'd say neither, it's not likely Jango could take out Mace in a reasonable time frame however what he can do is exit a fight which he was probably planning to do anyway when the jetpack failed.

Even ignoring the whole Mandalorian thing Jango Fett was successful bounty hunter and you don't get to be that if you take on fights you know you can't win.

[Solauren]

Jango couldn't even take out Obi-wan Kenobi on Kamino. Just get away from him.

Jango was trying to keep his distance from Mace.

Jango has previously tangled with Jedi, and knows what they can do.
Odds are, Jango himself was like 'okay, I can't beat a really skilled Jedi in a fight, time to flee'.
That didn't work, so (shrugs)

[bilateralrope]

Do we know if Jango was a full set of beskar armor or something lesser ?

I don't remember if the decapitating blow cut through his armor plates which would mean it's not beskar, or between them which would be inconclusive.

[Solauren]

Beskar isn't known to stop Force attacks. (i.e Force Push, Force Crush)

Also, Manadlorian armor looks like it just protects the vitals and joints. Case in point - Mando cutting himself with the Darksaber.
The neck isn't covered because that would affect mobility (i.e turning the head).

Also, watching his fight with Obi-wan, Jango wasn't the good a fighter to begin with.

[vakundok]

Without the reek separating Windu and Obi 1 and attacking Windu, he would have not tried to finish the kill.
Jumping for the lightsaber (instead of firing at Windu with missile/flamethrower/lasso/pistol) was very stupid. From the end of Windu's distraction he had no chance, jetpack or not.

[bilateralrope]

So I'm an anti-mandowank kind of mood at the moment

A better question might be: Has a Mandalorian ever done well against a Jedi Master in 1v1 in Disney canon ?


Right now I can't think of any examples.

[Shroom Man 777]

Mace uses Force crush and Jango gets asthma before Grievous, except because of his mask Jango chokes on his own asthma secretions unlike Grievous who can cough it out and politely cover his face with his hand and cape. I'm not entirely kidding, we see Yoda use high level TK to insta-KO armored troops.

[Solauren]

So I'm an anti-mandowank kind of mood at the moment

A better question might be: Has a Mandalorian ever done well against a Jedi Master in 1v1 in Disney canon ?


Right now I can't think of any examples.

The existence of the Darksaber, and it's surrounding lore, suggests that yes, Mandalorians have done okay to well against Jedi in the past.
Probably because the Jedi were stupid and didn't use force powers. Case in point, Mando did okay against Ashoka for a bit, as did the Magister.
(And Ashoka has crossed sabers with Darth Vader. Having seen the entire fight, I'd call it a draw.)

I think that reason is simple - Jedi like to test their non-force based Martial skills against competent to skill opponents. Problem is, Jedi get a little overconfident during those fights, and occasionally lose to a skilled non-force sensitive.

However, several of the council members do use the Force against non-Force sensitives. specifically Yoda, Mace, and Obi-wan.

[Formless]

Remember that Yoda explicitly says a Jedi never uses the Force for attack, only for defense. Absorbing a blaster bolt with the Force is okay, Force choking someone is not. The Sith don't care which is why they use things like the Force choke and Force lightning. Throwing objects with the Force at someone is also a more common Sith tactic than Jedi, but Yoda apparently thinks its okay. Mace Windu using the Force to crush Grevious's lungs between his own metal exoskeleton is a sign that Mace Windu is a morally compromised Jedi, indeed the poster boy for the rot that had entered the top levels of the Jedi council. He's totally convinced of his own righteousness and is certainly no Sith, but has lost sight of the basic principles that underpin Jedi ethics. His every action is based on a foundation of Jedi arrogance and self righteousness. He loses numerous Jedi knights pulling his stunt on Genosis, alienates both Ashoka and Anakin from the Jedi Order, and ultimately is so opposed to the Sith he forgets that there are other value systems in the Republic that might sway public opinion (let alone Anakin when he's standing right there!). Instead of revealing Palpatine's conspiracy to the public to end the war properly, he just goes to "arrest" him in a manner that makes clear this is an execution. For all we know, its Mace Windu who alienated Qui Gon and Count Dooku from the Jedi Order as well.

Anyway, much as you dislike Mando-wank, I hate Mace Windu wank. Not the part about his abilities, but how he's characterized. He's treated in the old lore and the RotS novelization like some kind of badass that can totally recognize who is good and who is evil and whose only failure was failing to read a room, but the implications of the films and The Clone Wars are that he's the poster child of a Dark Jedi who just doesn't fit the simplistic "Dark Jedi are Sith" mentality of the Jedi Order. That's why Jango Fett could get away from Obi Wan but not Mace Windu. Jango knows Jedi will typically let their opponents retreat on the battlefield, and he ain't no Klingon and doesn't subscribe to "today is a good day to die". The problem for him is, Mace Windu wasn't there to arrest anyone. He was there to suppress a rebellion. He's no different in that regard than Admiral Piett or General Veers.

[Lord Revan]

I wouldn't call Mace Windu a Dark Jedi at his worst he's more a very dark Grey Jedi then full a Dark Jedi, that said he does embody the corruption of the Jedi Order in that they were so focused on preserving the Republic and the Jedi code that they had lost sight of what those actually meant. Kind of like someone trying to preserve democracy by outlawing any criticism about the current system, even though constructive criticism towards the current system is key pillar of democracy.

[Crazedwraith]

Anyway, much as you dislike Mando-wank, I hate Mace Windu wank. Not the part about his abilities, but how he's characterized. He's treated in the old lore and the RotS novelization like some kind of badass that can totally recognize who is good and who is evil and whose only failure was failing to read a room, but the implications of the films and The Clone Wars are that he's the poster child of a Dark Jedi who just doesn't fit the simplistic "Dark Jedi are Sith" mentality of the Jedi Order. That's why Jango Fett could get away from Obi Wan but not Mace Windu. Jango knows Jedi will typically let their opponents retreat on the battlefield, and he ain't no Klingon and doesn't subscribe to "today is a good day to die". The problem for him is, Mace Windu wasn't there to arrest anyone. He was there to suppress a rebellion. He's no different in that regard than Admiral Piett or General Veers.

Shatterpoint/RotS Novelisation were a bit on the 'Mace is super special' with the Vapaad and shatterpoint thing. Ironically I've heard people whine about TCW/Disney EU shitting on Mace too much.

I didn't pick Mace to because he's super awesome, just because it was a scenario in the film that could have gone a different way. It seemed slightly more interesting that 'generic jedi master/knight vs generic Mando guy.

Jango vs Obi Wan and Jango Vs Mace are two different scenarios. Obi Wan was in full cop/investigator mode trying to arrest Jango and find out what he knows. Wheras Mace was in the middle of full fledged battle, just letting him flee was not an option. I don't think Obi Wan would have let him fly off at Geonsis either if he could help. Though tbf Kenobi's would have like delimbed rather decapitated if he had the option.

[Shroom Man 777]

Note that those observations also apply to Jedi Brontosaurus who tried to jump Dooku and got shot by Jango was also there to whack people.

[Crazedwraith]

Also Yoda tked guards into walls and chucked senate pods at Sidious. Never attack with the force is more of a guideline/don't start it philosophy than a hard and fast rule.

[Shroom Man 777]

Also Yoda tked guards into walls and chucked senate pods at Sidious. Never attack with the force is more of a guideline/don't start it philosophy than a hard and fast rule.

He probably lost his shit at that point after their sacred temple got profaned and the kids got mass murdered. In a way, like how the Jedi's undoing was due to their becoming this bureaucratic armed force buttressing a corrupt dysfunctional government, or their monastic order fully militarizing, Yoda at the time going full offensive was him growing unbalanced and something that got exploited, playing into his opponent and the Dark Side's hands. In thematic terms at least, and thus the opposite of how ROTJ unfolded.

[Solauren]

It was arguable that Yoda was defending himself from the Guards and Sith, or saw himself as defending the Republic.

[Solauren]

Note that those observations also apply to Jedi Brontosaurus who tried to jump Dooku and got shot by Jango was also there to whack people.

Hadrosaurus looking actually.

[Adam Reynolds]

This is a necro that I had finished before I realized the date, so I'm not quoting directly, but Formless' comment relates to something I've been thinking about lately.

As much as Qui-Gon gets this label, Mace Windu iss even more a true Gray Jedi, symbolically shown by his purple lightsaber. He has a much stronger draw to the Dark Side than other Jedi, which is what his unique lightsaber style was all about countering. Gray Jedi aren't awesome, they are in fact corrupted as they are drawn closer to the Dark Side. The other example of a Gray Jedi in practice is the actually the apathetic/cowardly approach taken by Luke in The Last Jedi in which he runs away to exile after almost killing Ben and driving him to the Dark Side, which is the same thing that the former official example of a Gray Jedi Jolee Bindo did or what we see with the Bendu in Rebels, who describes himself as the one in the middle. Arguably Yoda after ROTS also qualifies in the same way Luke did, as he accepts exile after failing to defeat the Emperor.

Qui-Gon was also never actually alienated from the Jedi Order in any fashion we saw. He was a maverick, but he was still a Jedi that was well regarded within the Order to the point that he was sent as the lead negotiator for a major crisis. His only failing was that he never got a council seat due to his maverick ways. This makes him the soft version of a Gray Jedi, one who follows his own feelings in the Force rather than the Jedi Code.

The novelization also points out that ironically Mace Windu also had an attachment to the Republic itself, to the point that he couldn't see the Jedi as anything other than an arm of the Republic rather than as the more independent do gooders that Qui-Gon attempted to be. This attachment lead him to see Palpatine's rise as the ultimate betrayal which lead to his brash actions in response, in which he failed to let Palpatine be tried within the Republic and keep the separation between the Republic and Jedi. Shatterpoint also made exactly the same point you did about the way in which they went into the arena with a show of power rather than a proper extraction plan, assuming that the Geonosians would cower against such a show of force(which they actually did, the problem was that battle droids under Dooku's command didn't).