Parallel universes

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-04-15 07:03pm

Good read here.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-04-15 07:06pm

Saw that earlier on Slashdot~

Too bad you can't find decent discussions there anymore

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2003-04-15 08:06pm

For this to work, wouldn't it have to be assumed that there's infinite matter in the universe?

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-04-15 08:13pm

Alferd Packer wrote:For this to work, wouldn't it have to be assumed that there's infinite matter in the universe?

Since they assume the universe is infinite, this in itself is not a problem.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-04-15 08:13pm

Okay. Serious, strange question ahead.

Space is infinite, therefore everything that could exist, must exist. Fine.

But infinite and everything are tricky words. By this, there should be regions of space where Trek is realistic, or where magic actually works. Or where Mike is God himself. Are we to just nod and say it happens somewhere? Or does Everything have constraints?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-04-15 08:20pm

SirNitram wrote:Okay. Serious, strange question ahead.

Space is infinite, therefore everything that could exist, must exist. Fine.

But infinite and everything are tricky words. By this, there should be regions of space where Trek is realistic, or where magic actually works. Or where Mike is God himself. Are we to just nod and say it happens somewhere? Or does Everything have constraints?

If it's infinite, it's that which is without constraints. That doesn't mean magic exists there; that'd be an appeal to ignorance. But that is what "infinite" means, and partly why it falls flat as an idea.

The article looks interesting, though I do have to nitpick and crash on the erroneous use of "universes." Uni = one. It means everything. There can't be multiple universes by definition.

That's one of the few things I disliked of LEXX

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-04-15 08:20pm

My mind whent to shit when I got to page 3. Thats why I need to learn more alegbra equations so I can understand physics.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-04-15 09:01pm

SirNitram wrote:Okay. Serious, strange question ahead.

Space is infinite, therefore everything that could exist, must exist. Fine.

But infinite and everything are tricky words. By this, there should be regions of space where Trek is realistic, or where magic actually works. Or where Mike is God himself. Are we to just nod and say it happens somewhere? Or does Everything have constraints?

At the level 1 multiverse, no. Everything that can happen within the boundries of the laws of physics will happen, but nothing outside of that. For things like Trek to happen you'd have to go to the level 2 or 3 multiverses. At least, that's how I read what they were saying.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2003-04-15 09:32pm

Alex Moon wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Okay. Serious, strange question ahead.

Space is infinite, therefore everything that could exist, must exist. Fine.

But infinite and everything are tricky words. By this, there should be regions of space where Trek is realistic, or where magic actually works. Or where Mike is God himself. Are we to just nod and say it happens somewhere? Or does Everything have constraints?
At the level 1 multiverse, no. Everything that can happen within the boundries of the laws of physics will happen, but nothing outside of that. For things like Trek to happen you'd have to go to the level 2 or 3 multiverses. At least, that's how I read what they were saying.

Actually, I think you'd need to go as far as a level IV. Level II just has different natural properties, like more or fewer space/time dimensions . And level III is pretty much the same as level I, only your doppleganger isn't in the same 3-d space-time. For the butchering of physical laws and crazy shit that happens in Trek and most other sci-fi, you'd probably need a IV, which can have totally different physical laws apparently. Especially for magic and stuff like the Force.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-04-15 10:07pm

SirNitram wrote: But infinite and everything are tricky words. By this, there should be regions of space where Trek is realistic, or where magic actually works.Or where Mike is God himself. Are we to just nod and say it happens somewhere? Or does Everything have constraints?

That would be interesting... Mike wouldn't believe in himself.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-04-16 03:49am

Scientific American wrote: There are infinitely many other inhabited planets, including not just one but infinitely many that have people with the same appearance, name and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation of your life choices.

Is it just me, or does this imply that life on other planets in other solar systems has followed exactly the same (evolutionary) pattern as this planet?? I find this hard to believe, if it is the case. But I have the feeling that I just have misinterpretated something. (which probably is the most likely)

As a side note, how should we access these parallel universes, and will we ever be able to do it??

Cej4096 · Post by **Cej4096** » 2003-04-16 10:56am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Scientific American wrote: There are infinitely many other inhabited planets, including not just one but infinitely many that have people with the same appearance, name and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation of your life choices.
Is it just me, or does this imply that life on other planets in other solar systems has followed exactly the same (evolutionary) pattern as this planet?? I find this hard to believe, if it is the case. But I have the feeling that I just have misinterpretated something. (which probably is the most likely)

It means that given an infinite amount of space, all possibilities should occur an infinite number of times. So there would be an infinite number of planets just like Earth, and an infinite number that are different. It is somewhat like the infinite number of monkeys at typewriters idea, except saying they would produce Shakespeare not once, but an infinite number of times. If you flip a coin an infinite number of times even sequences as unlikely as 1000 heads in a row will occur an infinte number of times.

Cthulhu-chan · Post by **Cthulhu-chan** » 2003-04-17 02:14am

To further elaborate, The article makes the point that in a level one universe there is a fairly strict limit on the available states of matter/energy in a given area such as the observable universe. If it continues to be shown that space and matter are infinite in supply, then it is inevitable that identical regions will exist. Furthermore, there will be an infinite number of these regions.

The wacky thing is that this means there is a vanishingly small chance of an identical star system to our own within our very galaxy. Of course, that such a thing could happen within our own observable universe is so unlikely as to be preposterous, but if you looked over a large enough area, our crazy little civilization would start cropping up like bad pennies.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-04-17 02:52am

Cej4096 wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Scientific American wrote: There are infinitely many other inhabited planets, including not just one but infinitely many that have people with the same appearance, name and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation of your life choices.
Is it just me, or does this imply that life on other planets in other solar systems has followed exactly the same (evolutionary) pattern as this planet?? I find this hard to believe, if it is the case. But I have the feeling that I just have misinterpretated something. (which probably is the most likely)
It means that given an infinite amount of space, all possibilities should occur an infinite number of times. So there would be an infinite number of planets just like Earth, and an infinite number that are different. It is somewhat like the infinite number of monkeys at typewriters idea, except saying they would produce Shakespeare not once, but an infinite number of times. If you flip a coin an infinite number of times even sequences as unlikely as 1000 heads in a row will occur an infinte number of times.

Yes, but I still consider it highly unlikely that there is as much as one other planet - in this universe - where the ecosystem is exactly like that on Earth.

Cthulhu-chan · Post by **Cthulhu-chan** » 2003-04-17 03:51am

Except that when you have a finite set over infinite iterations, duplicate results are not just inevitable but, by definition, infinite in number.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-04-17 03:50pm

Sigh. Multiple Universe theories always leave me with my head spinning.