Debate over whether Fundies are idiots or not - NEED HELP

[Trytostaydead]

Well..

a) I've learned it's hard to hold a discussion with Grim

and

b) How do you define a fundie to be idiotic? As in sub-par intelligence or having faith?

[Companion Cube]

When I read the title I thought that this would be an extremely quick debate...

[Baron Scarpia]

Three major types of fundies:

A. The Ignorant
B. The Idiotic
C. The Evil

Group A are the ones who are just honestly not intellectually curious, have always believed what they have been taught and do not seek to question their beliefs. They are comfortable in their way of existence, and generally decent folks.

Group B are those who, even when faced with science and reason, hold fast to their ideas. They are the ones who go out and loudly preach, the ones who tell others they are going to Hell, etc. They are too stupid to face any conflict with their world-view, so lash out in loud vitriol whenever it is challenged and demonize their opponents. They do really believe their dogma, but in the back of their minds is the nagging doubt, and since they are too dumb to handle it honestly, they behave like dumbfuck jerks.

Group C are the elite of the fundies--the preachers like Robertson, Falwell, etc. These guys know most of what the profess to believe is bunk, but they prey on groups A and B for financial/political gain. No tactic is too low for them when it comes to perpetuating the ignorance and hate they peddle. These are the hypocrites, the cynics, the liars.

There is some overlap, of course. But many in group C aren't really idiots, as they're just using the religion for their own gain. Devious fuckers, that's what they are.

[Companion Cube]

And obviously, Group C are the most Reprehensible and worthy of contempt.

[Baron Scarpia]

But of course. Being evil is far more reprehensible than being stupid.

Being stupid AND evil is bad, but at least the stupidity can somewhat negate the true malevolence of the evil.

[Trytostaydead]

Once again, we really need to come together and define what it is that makes a fundie.

For those who says a Christian fundie is one who holds true to the Bible (mainly NT of course), then calling them idiots, ignorants, or evil is perhaps the most idiotic, ignorant, and malicious thing you can do. How do you call scientists and doctors who are Christians idiots or ignorant is really beyond me. Would you claim any of them has an unscientific mind or fail to grasp basic scientific principles?

I'd love to see one of you guys go up to the director of neurobiology with NASA and say he lacks a scientific mind. Love to see you tell one of the best opthamologists in the world she's an idiot. Would pay money to have one of you guys go up to a record-breaking neurosurgeon and call him ignorant. Brainwashing and indoctrination doesn't hold true either, the people mentioned above WENT to Christianity later in life.

Maybe I'm just biased.. I was in luck that I attend school surrounded by people who have made names for themselves in their respective fields of science and believe in God. Maybe you guys are just surrounded by ill-educated people or people who twist the Bible for their own purposes.

But to call categorize Christians who hold the Bible true idiots, ignorant, evil, blind or whatever just shows your own ignorance, prejudice (or grudge), and insensitivity.

[Temjin]

Being evil is far more reprehensible than being evil.

I'm sorry but this sentence makes no sense to me.

Perhaps you could rewrite the sentence.....

[Temjin]

Once again, we really need to come together and define what it is that makes a fundie.

For those who says a Christian fundie is one who holds true to the Bible (mainly NT of course), then calling them idiots, ignorants, or evil is perhaps the most idiotic, ignorant, and malicious thing you can do. How do you call scientists and doctors who are Christians idiots or ignorant is really beyond me. Would you claim any of them has an unscientific mind or fail to grasp basic scientific principles?

I'd love to see one of you guys go up to the director of neurobiology with NASA and say he lacks a scientific mind. Love to see you tell one of the best opthamologists in the world she's an idiot. Would pay money to have one of you guys go up to a record-breaking neurosurgeon and call him ignorant. Brainwashing and indoctrination doesn't hold true either, the people mentioned above WENT to Christianity later in life.

Maybe I'm just biased.. I was in luck that I attend school surrounded by people who have made names for themselves in their respective fields of science and believe in God. Maybe you guys are just surrounded by ill-educated people or people who twist the Bible for their own purposes.

But to call categorize Christians who hold the Bible true idiots, ignorant, evil, blind or whatever just shows your own ignorance, prejudice (or grudge), and insensitivity.

I define a Christian fundie as one who holds every bit of the bible to be true (new and old testament). One who wants to shove his beliefs down your throat whether you want to listen to it or not. One who thinks there is an abundance of scintific evidence for God and wil not listen when you refute their arguments. I would hope this is true of the rest of the board.

Those people you listed I would not define as fundies. In my eyes, they are more like moderate Christians.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.....

[jegs2]

I define a Christian fundie as one who holds every bit of the bible to be true (new and old testament). One who wants to shove his beliefs down your throat whether you want to listen to it or not. One who thinks there is an abundance of scintific evidence for God and wil not listen when you refute their arguments. I would hope this is true of the rest of the board.

Those people you listed I would not define as fundies. In my eyes, they are more like moderate Christians.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.....

I highlighted that with which I am in agreement (of what one who claims to be a Christian should not do). While I hold the Bible to be the Word of God, I never try to shove that assertion down anyone's throat.

[Temjin]

I highlighted that with which I am in agreement. While I hold the Bible to be the Word of God, I never try to shove that assertion down anyone's throat.

*Shrugs* I mainly meant the post to be about how I don't consider every Christian to be a fundie.

There was bound to be something in that definition that somebody didn't agree with.

[jegs2]

There was bound to be something in that definition that somebody didn't agree with.

I aplologize for the misunderstanding. I edited my response to make myself more clear. I was highlighting what I felt specifically defined what a person who claims to be a Christian should not do.

[Baron Scarpia]

Being evil is far more reprehensible than being evil.

I'm sorry but this sentence makes no sense to me.

Perhaps you could rewrite the sentence.....

Fixed!

[UltraViolence83]

I'm actually beginning to think that a good deal of Creationists aren't total idiots like everyone makes them out to be. You would have to devise new ways to explain the world to conform with your ever-present magical little book.* Of course, the YECs I talk about are the ones that invent these explainations, not the gullible public who eats it all up. Not so much idiots as delusional, I would think. Matter of fact, it's quite devious for them to pressure the US govenrment into accepting Creationism. They let their little loudmouthed cronies do the bitching in the local school board while they pull the strings. You can't be devious without being smart, after all. Men such as Falwell, Chick, and Robertson may be borderline insane in their beliefs, but damn can they sell it.


*I wish this was only an interesting thought exercise like rationalizing ST or SW, instead of people taking it at face value. Rabid Trekkies are the opposite of YECs. YECs formula is: delusion-into-thought, Rabid Trekkies is thought-into-delusion.

[Jonathan]

Three major types of fundies:

A. The Ignorant
B. The Idiotic
C. The Evil

Group A are the ones who are just honestly not intellectually curious, have always believed what they have been taught and do not seek to question their beliefs. They are comfortable in their way of existence, and generally decent folks.

Group B are those who, even when faced with science and reason, hold fast to their ideas. They are the ones who go out and loudly preach, the ones who tell others they are going to Hell, etc. They are too stupid to face any conflict with their world-view, so lash out in loud vitriol whenever it is challenged and demonize their opponents. They do really believe their dogma, but in the back of their minds is the nagging doubt, and since they are too dumb to handle it honestly, they behave like dumbfuck jerks.

Group C are the elite of the fundies--the preachers like Robertson, Falwell, etc. These guys know most of what the profess to believe is bunk, but they prey on groups A and B for financial/political gain. No tactic is too low for them when it comes to perpetuating the ignorance and hate they peddle. These are the hypocrites, the cynics, the liars.

There is some overlap, of course. But many in group C aren't really idiots, as they're just using the religion for their own gain. Devious fuckers, that's what they are.

A fundamentalist is someone who believes in fundametals, so a Christian fundamentalist is someone who believes in the fundamentals of Christianity: Jesus being God, salvation through God's grace, the necessity of salvation because of God's coming wrath at the second coming, divine authority of the Bible, etc. By that definition, I know a great number of fundamentalists and would certainly call myself one. There's a hood big on the subject by John Packer, a fairly famous Christian author. Of course, a slightly more derogatory meaning seems to be in use here. I wonder which one Mike felt I was that justified calling me a Fundamentalist Moron :^)

Group A - I'm intellectually curious, have questioned my beliefs and researched various matters when others question it, so I couldn't be that.

Group B - I'm a Physics student at Oxford University, don't have naggin doubts and probably am not stupid, so I consider this unlikely.

Group C - I honestly believe everything I say, it costs be to be a Christian, financially and in terms of people's view of me and I emphasise that God loves us all unconditionally (the theme of the most recent mission at our Christian Union) and the greatest commandments were about love of God and love of all men, so I don't think it's this one either.

Maybe he'll enlighten us.

[Terrance_philip]

Science is a religon. Its updated and edited and its doctrines are replaced with new ones just like all religons and it has its fair share of heritics.You are espousing a religon its call atheisim.I truly wonder if your need to belong is what decides what you belive in?Oh if sub atomic forces dont work in the post atomic I guess that means chemistry and nuclear reactions dont work.

[Kuroneko]

Science is a religon. Its updated and edited and its doctrines are replaced with new ones just like all religons and it has its fair share of heritics.

Science does not involves neither the supernatural nor the spiritual, therefore it cannot be a religion.

I truly wonder if your need to belong is what decides what you belive in? You are espousing a religon its call atheisim.

A lack of it. It's kind of like calling a vacuum a particular kind of atmosphere. It's ridiculuous.

Oh if sub atomic forces dont work in the post atomic I guess that means chemistry and nuclear reactions dont work.

I truly have no idea what you're trying to argue with this last sentence. Perhaps you should elaborate.

[Terrance_philip]

science is a religon its a search for ultimate truths.It also does deal with supernatural. Alj is a fundie hes preching to the choir,calling the kettele black.

[Keevan_Colton]

His attempts at debate over there were.....
"How come cars dont assemble themselves"
And
"Hah hah you farted!"

He's not really worth the time.

[Terrance_philip]

yes that was an incredible Keevan_Colton= waylander hahahaha you farted.

[Kuroneko]

science is a religon its a search for ultimate truths.

Whereas religion assumes to already have them.

It also does deal with supernatural.

By definition impossible. You must be thinking of pseudoscience.

...

Actually, it is becoming more and more evident that you're just plain not thinking.

[Terrance_philip]

Hahhaahaha how can you say any belive system isnt a religon thats absurd. pseudoscience is often just todays scientific heraseys which will be proved and prove todays KNOWN FACTS wrong.The intelligence communitys of almost every country on planet earth have dumped billions of dollars into all kinds of bizzare pk/ remote viewing and who knows what else.As far as religons assumeing they have all the answers then why do they all update there texts ?Alj is a fundie hes a preacher hes preaching his own belives.

[Temjin]

Science is a religon. Its updated and edited and its doctrines are replaced with new ones just like all religons and it has its fair share of heritics.

Science is not a religion. The fact that you would make such a statement proves you have no understanding of it.

I would say here why this statement is false, but you would likely not be able to understand it.

You are espousing a religon its call atheisim.I truly wonder if your need to belong is what decides what you belive in?

Atheism is not a religion either. Atheism is the lack of religion. If atheism was a religion, it would not be atheism then, would it?

Oh if sub atomic forces dont work in the post atomic I guess that means chemistry and nuclear reactions dont work.

What the hell trying to say here?

[Terrance_philip]

atheisim is a religon not a lack of one its a clear and regonized religon.As is humanisim.

[Temjin]

Hahhaahaha how can you say any belive system isnt a religon thats absurd.

Science is not a belief system. It makes no assumptions. It is entirely dependent on evidence. Something religion is not.

pseudoscience is often just todays scientific heraseys which will be proved and prove todays KNOWN FACTS wrong.

Do you even know what pseudoscience is? It is science not based in either facts or evidence. There's more of a chance that monkey will fly out of my ear than any pseudoscientific theory be accepted by the scietific community.

The intelligence communitys of almost every country on planet earth have dumped billions of dollars into all kinds of bizzare pk/ remote viewing and who knows what else.

pk/ ? I'm sorry but I have no idea what the you're hell talking about here.

As far as religons assumeing they have all the answers then why do they all update there texts ?Alj is a fundie hes a preacher hes preaching his own belives.

Probably because science keeps on proving those texts wrong?

[Temjin]

atheisim is a religon not a lack of one its a clear and regonized religon.As is humanisim.

Congrats! You just showed that you have no idea what atheism is!

Why don't you check your dictionary (assuming you have one) then come back here.