Domes atop the command tower - deflection and communication

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-05-08 10:51pm

There had been a huge discussion about the actual purpoes of the domes, and there is one page on SW.com that adresses them:
"The trapezoidal command tower stands near the aft end of this island, capped with two geodesic communication and deflection domes".
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html
A) "Deflection" as deflector shield function
or
B) "deflection" as targeting (deflective shot) function

This is the main question. Thank you very much for any comments, but I would like not to hear the "they are shields because the EGVV says so" or "they are sensor globes because Saxston said so". Thank you again.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2003-05-08 11:01pm

I really don't give a shit what you would or wouldn't like to hear, Saxton is a god and his word goes

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-08 11:02pm

B, because Saxton says so

No really, I'd say B because there is no reason to assume that they are shielding, as no other ships have visible deflector shield generators. However, ISDs and SSDs are the only ships we see with giant HTL batteries that might have the range that would make large targetting systems worthwhile.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-08 11:22pm

Do not trust the Databank. Its canonicity is not known, AFAIK, and probably not extremely high, either.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-05-08 11:31pm

Iron Fist calls them "shield projectors." So they're not generators, but projectors. There are shield projectors all over the ship, and apparently, there are also projectors in the bridge tower globes. Projectors, even on the Mandel blueprints, are near the surface of starships. Having some in the multi-purpose globes would allow better shielding for the globes, providing better protection for long range sensors (Mandel blueprints) and communications (databank). Taking out the globes would take out, or at least weaken, shielding in the bridge area.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-08 11:37pm

Mad wrote:Taking out the globes would take out, or at least weaken, shielding in the bridge area.

The shields would have to be failing or near-failing in order to do that.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-05-08 11:41pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The shields would have to be failing or near-failing in order to do that.

True. But that's usually assumed... well, except for the irrational people who say "so-and-so just fires so-and-so weapons and takes out the shield generators." So, yeah, that's worth pointing out. Sorry I forgot to mention it...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-05-09 12:03am

Alls I can say is that the ROTJ Executor example does not prove they are shield generators, nor does it prove they are sensor domes. I detailed the analysis before and I can do so again if anyone wishes.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-05-09 12:14am

So have I. It requires somewhat circular reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that the globes are shielding-related.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-05-09 02:23am

In fact, it's not too hard to find another ship with
1) dorsal TL battaries
2) high-up command tower
3) no domes
It's the Acclamator.
Now a bit about Saxton's reasoning.
If we follow the thought about the dome protecting a sensor/radar/scanner (like the ones on Earth) which is, basically, a dish, one would think that it ruins the shield generator theory. E.g. Saxston says that nobody dares to assume the dish on the Falcon to be a shield projecting device, while in fact we had a dish projecting the Endor - Death Star shield. And he counts the domes on the Executor, but there are no domes on the other side of the ship in case of the two lower domes and the back domes are not the same as the ones on the bridge, and so on, and so forth...

So just saying "Saxston is god" doesnt make him a god.

What also is important that the presumable range of the globes, if we agree they are sensors, corresponds nicely to the fire arcs of the ISD main batteries.

In fact, Saxton agrees that the domes may have double function.

Of course the loss of the bridge deflector on the Executor in ROTJ is not connected with the loss of the dome (no direct logical connection between the events), still the dome might well be a shield-related construction, having combined functions of sensor/targeting and shielding.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-05-09 10:06am

Stas Bush wrote:What also is important that the presumable range of the globes, if we agree they are sensors, corresponds nicely to the fire arcs of the ISD main batteries.

Keep in mind that the Mandel blueprints call them "Long Range Scanners." There's no support for them having short-range sensors, as far as I know. Of course, long range scanners may be useful for HTLs, if they outrange the short range scanners' capability.

In fact, Saxton agrees that the domes may have double function.

Good. Actually, they could have three functions: long range scanners, communications (long range, I guess), and mounting a pair of shield projectors.

References to "shield generators" can probably be assumed that the author of a work confused the purpose of generators with the purpose of projectors.

Of course the loss of the bridge deflector on the Executor in ROTJ is not connected with the loss of the dome (no direct logical connection between the events), still the dome might well be a shield-related construction, having combined functions of sensor/targeting and shielding.

Yeah, it requires circular reasoning to make any conclusions on the function of the globes in RotJ. We'd have to go to other sources, but the other sources are divided. The Databank suggests multiple purposes, so it sounds like they have several different pieces of equipment held inside the globes.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-05-09 10:36am

Mad

Keep in mind that the Mandel blueprints call them "Long Range Scanners." There's no support for them having short-range sensors, as far as I know. Of course, long range scanners may be useful for HTLs, if they outrange the short range scanners' capability.

Yes, that's the idea. The turbolasers are all over the ISD, but the batteries which are it's main artillary (hell, what's the word for "stellung" in English?)... Well, you get it. And this makes perfect sence that the domes are targeting scanners for the HTL batteries, one for each side (watch my small picture with the scanner's coverage area and the arc of fire). That's it. And the other (medium and small TLs) are provided with short-range scanners which do not require any special "domes" as they are just metallic planes or something like that (like the sensor "gehaeuse" (hell, my English sucks!) on the Acclamator CT).

]References to "shield generators" can probably be assumed that the author of a work confused the purpose of generators with the purpose of projectors.

Sure, just as the dish on Endor was just a projector - a part of the generator.

so it sounds like they have several different pieces of equipment held inside the globes

That makes sense. The Acclamator has no domes, but it would be strange for it to have no shields. So suppose the external "domes" are just a special device providing extra protection for the bridge. Like Ackbar said in ROTJ novel, they knocked the Executors forward shields and then called the fighters to assist in a bridge attack.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2003-05-09 11:02am

I'd like to see Wong's opinion on the issue...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-09 11:23am

Stas Bush wrote:Sure, just as the dish on Endor was just a projector - a part of the generator.

The generator was underground. The projector was a massive structure above ground.

This just supports the Saxton assertion (via the ICS2) of "imbedded shield generators, surface shield projectors." Original SW ICS shows multiple near-surface or surface shield projectors, and AOTC ICS clarifies deeply imbedded shield generators in the Core Ship and elsewhere.

We know the generator was below ground because we could see transformer structures in the background of the original bunker rush scene, and the upwardly directed explosion into the shield projector dish from the surface coninciding with the proton grenades being placed on the ceeling in the underground bunker complex, which the EU descibe as having a monodirectional blaster toward the wider base of the grenade.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-05-09 11:46am

Illuminatus Primus
Yes, I had to be more correct - the projector is a part of the generator complex. And this is the thing which could lead to the "shield generator" error. The generators are most certainly somewhere below the ship's surface, otherwise it makes no sense at all.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-07-01 07:55pm

www.starwars.com wrote:The superstructure above juts from the flat upper surfaces of the ship like an aircraft carrier's "island" command tower, complete with equipment finishing off its upper reaches like the communications and scanning gear of a carrier.

I've seen this page before, but I didn't reflect much on it until I happened to review it today.

http://www.starwars.com/community/featu ... exp19.html

Add one official source in support of scanner domes.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-07-01 08:04pm

No edit again?

To clarify what I mean, I don't think this is a shield generator:

http://www.clemson.edu/coop/images/Nimi ... s_deck.jpg

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-01 08:35pm

Don't ressurrect dead threads.

Especially those by such a loon as Stas Bush...

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-07-01 08:47pm

In other words, you would prefer a new thread, although the subject is the same?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-07-01 08:48pm

nightmare wrote:In other words, you would prefer a new thread, although the subject is the same?

Basically.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-01 08:51pm

nightmare wrote:In other words, you would prefer a new thread, although the subject is the same?

When threads go off the first page and haven't been posted in for weeks, then it's common courtesy to ignore them and not post. The only reason to post in them is if you major, major new information.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-07-02 03:43am

The best idea is that the domes have multiple functions.
They incorporate sensors, communication devices and the shield projectors. (Ray and particle shields as well.)
The generators are of course inside the body of the ISD. In fact, I think the whole shield system is connected to the main reactor of the ISD.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-02 03:51am

No, the best idea theory is that they're scanner globes.

A multi-purpose "theory" is just a pathetic attempt to "compromise" by those that still meagerly hang on to the "shield projector" bullshit originating way back with a fuck up in game mechanics.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-07-02 04:44am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No, the best idea theory is that they're scanner globes.

A multi-purpose "theory" is just a pathetic attempt to "compromise" by those that still meagerly hang on to the "shield projector" bullshit originating way back with a fuck up in game mechanics.

OK. Prove it that they're not just sensors.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-02 04:50am

Why would you put three different systems like sensors, communications, and shields all into the same housing?

That doesn't make any sense, particularly if those domes are destroyed, you've got major componets for THREE systems out at the same time.