Nazism, Christianity, and Fundamentalists

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2002-09-09 01:59pm

By the way, this is something that's kinda bothered me for a while...

Has anyone else had the experience of visiting a Concentration Camp?

I found it incredibly ironic that, at Auschwitz, an informative film describes how Christians were actually given special license to practice their beliefs (one of the 'housing blocks' was dedicated to being a church)...and still people persist in the moronic belief that Hitler was an athiest.

Even worse, though, are the three memorial chapels on the grounds. Kinda disturbing to see a church on the grounds of one of the worst examples of rampant extremism, neh?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-09-09 03:29pm

I thought he was going to ban the catholics, but didn't so he could hold the masses support?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-09 03:30pm

It is one of those funny things

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-09 03:48pm

I think that Wong has done a very good job adressing the falacy of Hitler being an Atheist.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-09 03:51pm

Alyeska wrote:I think that Wong has done a very good job adressing the falacy of Hitler being an Atheist.

Thanks, but I think that "fallacy" is too generous. A more accurate description would be "outright lie".

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-09-09 05:16pm

? most of the books I've read said he was - why would you say he wasn't?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-09 05:21pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:? most of the books I've read said he was - why would you say he wasn't?

(very annoyed sigh) Because he openly embraced several elemnts of Christianity, because he worshipped a Nordic spirit religon of some sort, etc... There is just as much evidence that Hitler is an Athiest as there is evidence that Jerry Falwell is an Athiest.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-09 05:24pm

Its one of those pretty lies Chrisitans do like saying all good comes from God but nothing bad.. Hitler was bad therefor

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-09 05:26pm

Mr Bean wrote:Its one of those pretty lies Chrisitans do like saying all good comes from God but nothing bad.. Hitler was bad therefor

Better then that even. Hitler, Stallin, and Mao were all Athiests. Therefor all Athiests are evil with evil morals (if any) and therefor are servants of the Devil!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 05:57pm

Its one of those pretty lies Chrisitans do like saying all good comes from God but nothing bad.. Hitler was bad therefor

Er, no. Were he *really* a Christian, he wouldn't have done that whole mass murder angle. He was just a nutcase who might have thought he was Christian.

I duno how the lie about his being an atheist got started, but it might have been because Christians knew his actions would be used to attack Christianity. 'course, we all know people are smart enough not to use the actions of one man as proof that an entire institute is evil.

Right?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-09-09 06:15pm

Even worse, though, are the three memorial chapels on the grounds. Kinda disturbing to see a church on the grounds of one of the worst examples of rampant extremism, neh?

Not at all. Christianity was born and popularized from extremism and genocide, as far back as the ancient Israelites, who ruthlessly slaughtered anyone they came across. Then you had the Christians taking over the Roman Empire and as a result of their intolerant practices, the empire fell. The Romans would take conquered nations' gods and put them in their own worship centers in order to better assimilate the culture. Christians simply tried to forcibly convert everyone.

Er, no. Were he *really* a Christian, he wouldn't have done that whole mass murder angle. He was just a nutcase who might have thought he was Christian.

Bullshit. The Bible is full of atrocious acts of mass murder and genocide. The "True Christianity" shit doesn't float, here. Hitler believed in Christ and embraced the basic precepts of Christianity. He was a Christian. Deal with it.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-09 06:23pm

I believe Hitler was in the process of forming a kind of Christian/Occult hybrid religion for his "1000 year Reich".
He certainly wasn't Atheist, and I think a lot of people call Hitler an Atheist or a Satan Worshiper because they don't want to accept that he did use Christianity to justify his actions.
Insulting Atheists by association is of course another motive

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 06:36pm

Bullshit. The Bible is full of atrocious acts of mass murder and genocide. The "True Christianity" shit doesn't float, here. Hitler believed in Christ and embraced the basic precepts of Christianity. He was a Christian. Deal with it

You'll notice that most of that is written in the Old Testament. Take a look at the New Testament, the part that Christianity was founded on, and you'll notice that mass murder, genocide, and slaughter are strangely lacking.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 06:38pm

Then you had the Christians taking over the Roman Empire and as a result of their intolerant practices, the empire fell.

Actually, if I remember correctly, piss-poor government, corruption, the lack of new lands to conquer, and Massive Barbarian Hordes caused the fall of the Empire.

The claim that Christianity caused the Fall is bull, as evidenced by the fact that the Christian Byzantine Empire survived for a thousand more years.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-09-09 06:40pm

Of course Hitler was an athiest. In fact, all his top lieutenants were athiest too. Same with all his SS soldiers. Everyone who worked the concentration camps were athiest also. Same with Germany's soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Now that I think about it, all Germans were athiest. The only exceptions of course were the Jews, and those few Christians who opposed his rise to power. But everyone else were athiest. Damn athiest!

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-09 06:57pm

Actually, if I remember correctly, piss-poor government, corruption, the lack of new lands to conquer, and Massive Barbarian Hordes caused the fall of the Empire.

Because the new Christian regime moved the capital to Constantinople and virtually cut the Western Empire's throat by seizing all of the rich lands behind it.

The claim that Christianity caused the Fall is bull, as evidenced by the fact that the Christian Byzantine Empire survived for a thousand more years.

And more and more that empire degenerated into intolerance and fanaticism while Europe descended into the Dark Ages.

Christianity may not have caused the fall of Rome outright, but it did contribute to it's degeneration.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 07:24pm

Because the new Christian regime moved the capital to Constantinople and virtually cut the Western Empire's throat by seizing all of the rich lands behind it.

Um, no. Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople because the Western Empire was already dintergrating. The Empire was then split bewteen two co-emperors(forget the official term). It was an attempt to preserve as much of the Empire as was possible by making it easier to govern, and it eventually worked to preserve the Byzantines for a thousand years.

And more and more that empire degenerated into intolerance and fanaticism while Europe descended into the Dark Ages.

Christianity may not have caused the fall of Rome outright, but it did contribute to it's degeneration.

Um, no! Christianity had nothing to do with the Empire's fall-if anything, it preserved the Empire longer than it would have lasted otherwise. The Dark Ages were not a result of 'intorerance and fanaticism' in the Roman Empire. The Dark Ages were a result of the Germanic tribes burning the Western Empire to the ground!

If anything, the scattered monasteries and convents helped preserve Roman and Greek ideas by keeping the arts of reading and writing alive.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-09 07:52pm

Cyril wrote:
Because the new Christian regime moved the capital to Constantinople and virtually cut the Western Empire's throat by seizing all of the rich lands behind it.
Um, no. Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople because the Western Empire was already dintergrating. The Empire was then split bewteen two co-emperors(forget the official term). It was an attempt to preserve as much of the Empire as was possible by making it easier to govern, and it eventually worked to preserve the Byzantines for a thousand years.

The Empire suffered under many civil wars at that point, but it wasn't desintegrating.
Constantine deliberatley undermined the Western Empire by making sure the Eastern Empire had all the rich, easily defendable lands while the west had to cope with invasions.

And more and more that empire degenerated into intolerance and fanaticism while Europe descended into the Dark Ages.

Christianity may not have caused the fall of Rome outright, but it did contribute to it's degeneration.

Um, no! Christianity had nothing to do with the Empire's fall-if anything, it preserved the Empire longer than it would have lasted otherwise. The Dark Ages were not a result of 'intorerance and fanaticism' in the Roman Empire. The Dark Ages were a result of the Germanic tribes burning the Western Empire to the ground![/quote]

Ah yes, the Christian myth of the fall of Rome.
The Barbarian tribes invaded the Western Empire but they didn't destroy it, they wanted to live like Romans but they couldn't maintain it.
The Eastern Empire was content to do nothing until it was too late.

If anything, the scattered monasteries and convents helped preserve Roman and Greek ideas by keeping the arts of reading and writing alive.

What, you mean what they didn't burn?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 08:00pm

The Empire suffered under many civil wars at that point, but it wasn't desintegrating.
Constantine deliberatley undermined the Western Empire by making sure the Eastern Empire had all the rich, easily defendable lands while the west had to cope with invasions.

Because he was smart enough to realize that the Western Empire was going to fall anyway, as it was under constant invasion, already had a shity economy, and was suffering under really, really horrible leadership. Yes, it was disintergrating, losing lands every year to advancing barbarians.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-09 08:01pm

A few fun things in the NEW Testmate talking about killing Athesits as that is Cyril ANOTHER Fallacy plus a repeat of curse your parents and die

Matthew 15:4

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Shut up son or God says I should kill you!

Revelation 2:23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Luke, Chapter10
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,

10:11
Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

10:12
But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Thessalonians, Chapter 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Romans 1:11
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Mark, Chapter 16:17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now.. What where you saying about no Violence in the New Testmate Cyril?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-09 08:16pm

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

It's not meat literally.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

If I'm not mstaken, the 'her' refered to is the Whore of Babylon, an entirely metaphorical entity, who's 'children' are Satanic offspring. Not exactly slaughtering innocents.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Notice that this is a reference to the Old Testatement, not an event that occured in the New Testament. 'Destroyed' is most likely refering to the wandering in the desert.

10:11
Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

He's talking about God's judgement.

Thessalonians, Chapter 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Ditto

Mark, Chapter 16:17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

Ditto 2x

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-09 08:19pm

Ahh so take flame onto the unbelivers of the lord is Gods Judgment?

Well thats still the Evil Rascist Tyranical Overlord of the old Testmate

Face it the New Testmate while no where near as violate as the Old still does have violence in it

The fact remains the religion in question calls for the extermination of certian races of people on the earth, that its ok to take slaves, and killing in the lords name of anyone is not realy killing

When I say the Lord makes Hilter Look like a Pansy
I don't kid around

GoneCrazy · Post by **GoneCrazy** » 2002-09-09 08:26pm

Cyril wrote:
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
It's not meat literally.

of course nothing's meant literally in the bible. we can twist and turn it to mean anything we want it to. Hey!Hey! i think it means that the world will flood in 2006.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
If I'm not mstaken, the 'her' refered to is the Whore of Babylon, an entirely metaphorical entity, who's 'children' are Satanic offspring. Not exactly slaughtering innocents.

is it polite to kill whores? or their children? i don't care if she's metapholical u kill people. i'm sure the jews in the holocaust were't innocents either, were they?

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Notice that this is a reference to the Old Testatement, not an event that occured in the New Testament. 'Destroyed' is most likely refering to the wandering in the desert.

destroyed means killed. it means god's an evil son of a whore and kills people just because they believe in freedom of religion.

Thessalonians, Chapter 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
Ditto

ditto? POKEMON!!!!!

Mark, Chapter 16:17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Ditto 2x

i'm sorry but i don't believe damning a person just because he doesn't believe in u and wants to believe in something else to be "ditto"

sorry for all the blue but i've only been a member two days and don't know how to select what should be blue.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-09 08:42pm

Cyril wrote:
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
It's not meat literally.

Says who?
What's literal? What isn't? Who decides? You?

Cyril wrote:
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
If I'm not mstaken, the 'her' refered to is the Whore of Babylon, an entirely metaphorical entity, who's 'children' are Satanic offspring. Not exactly slaughtering innocents.

Still violence though, ain't it?

Cyril wrote:
Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Notice that this is a reference to the Old Testatement, not an event that occured in the New Testament. 'Destroyed' is most likely refering to the wandering in the desert.

Apologist excuses.
It comes from that, it really means this. Blah blah blah

Cyril wrote:
10:11
Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
He's talking about God's judgement.

Thessalonians, Chapter 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
Ditto

Mark, Chapter 16:17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Ditto 2x

Who gives a flying fuck?
Because it's God's judgement it's okay?
He can send people to horrible flaming agony because he's so fine, he's so fine he blows his mind?
Damn I hate that.

GoneCrazy · Post by **GoneCrazy** » 2002-09-09 08:49pm

thanx for summing up so nicely EJ.