Accuracy of Wong's calculations.....

[Shroom Man 777]

A member from a forum where I usually go said this:

please do not reference anything from Stardestroyer.net. there was a huge debate on the other site i go to about SW vs ST, where i proved many of Mr. Wong's calculations inaccurate, and the correct calculations were nowhere near what he theorized. it actually caused some major debate on the stardestroyer.net forums, where Wong actually replied to some of my comments but basically just insulted my intelligence on the matter.

anyways, after saying that, i would say that SW would beat ST in some aspects, but ST would win in others. for example, im sure some Star Destroyers could take out Federation ships, but then again i think the Borg could take out the Death Star. it's all a matter of what you are comparing.

Now, are Wong's calculations correct? Aside from Wong, what other sources concur with him?

I am asking him on the sources and whatnot of this stuff he is saying.

But the point still remains: Are Wong's calcs accurate? Does any official cannon guide book concur with him to some degree?

No flames plz....

[neoolong]

From what I've seen, yes.

The Incredible Cross Sections books for the movies are one of the sources.

The thing with SW is that most stuff published unless it contradicts the stuff associated directly with the movie is considered true, so if a novel says something happened and it doesn't directly contradict something in the movie, then it happened. So if a novel mentions that they have x number of ships, and this isn't contradicted by a movie that says they only have y number of ships, then they have x number of ships.

Or so I gathered.

There are others, but I'm tired and I'm sure someone else can answer better than I.

[His Divine Shadow]

You can tell him that he is right, Wong's calculations where quite off the mark when canon material on the issue was released from Lucasfilm, it seems that Wong's calculations where way too low.

Ofcourse Wong himself has said that his calculations are low-ends

[generator_g1]

please do not reference anything from Stardestroyer.net. there was a huge debate on the other site i go to about SW vs ST, where i proved many of Mr. Wong's calculations inaccurate, and the correct calculations were nowhere near what he theorized. it actually caused some major debate on the stardestroyer.net forums, where Wong actually replied to some of my comments but basically just insulted my intelligence on the matter.

anyways, after saying that, i would say that SW would beat ST in some aspects, but ST would win in others. for example, im sure some Star Destroyers could take out Federation ships, but then again i think the Borg could take out the Death Star. it's all a matter of what you are comparing.

Hmm...I wonder who wrote this and how he proved DW's calcs were wrong?

[Lee3]

Much as I hate to admit it (I always liked TOS and TNG) what he has written makes a lot of sense.

The only possible opponents for the SW civilization would be the Civilization from "Doc" Smith's Lensman series. Civilization/Boskonia is contained within this galaxy *and* Lundmark's Nebula so the number of worlds would be about par. The inertialess Drive allows them to travel at comparable speeds with the Empire ships.

It's hard to tell concerning shields and weapons. Doc Smith wrote vividly and visually, but didn't pin down these with figures of any type, so it is hard to judge "titanic" forces that raved through"ether". The stories were written in the 1930's, and grew more colossal in scale as the thing went on.

I don't think they had any ships nearly the size of some of the bigger Empire ships, but they did toss "Free" planets at enemy homeworlds in addition to having "millions" of ships in the grand fleet. As I am math deficient (at least beside Mr Wong)I wouldn't even attempt a comparison even if I had the judgement to rate Civilization's ships. Too bad.

[Darth Wong]

There are a great many people out there who claim to have defeated my calculations. Why not ask him to give you links to the threads on this very BBS where he supposedly accomplished this feat?

[Shroom Man 777]

Darth Wong, we're not worthy! We're not worthy!

Your avatar really projects your wisdom. I'm not kidding.

Well, I asked him for sources and link.

Someone said that the cannon stuff proved Wong's calculations were WAY lower, care to show me some of the cannon stuff?

[Ghost Rider]

His site has a great deal of canon...I mean he has pics and references.

He's covered many of the bases towards his calculations and made special effort to use canon when possible.

[Bartman]

There are a great many people out there who claim to have defeated my calculations. Why not ask him to give you links to the threads on this very BBS where he supposedly accomplished this feat?

Exactly. Wong has taken great pains to detail both the methods and the calculations used to arrive at his figures. Your annonymous poster has apparently provided nothing more than a vague reference that at some point he has done the same and you should just trust him on that.

With Wong's numbers anyone can run the exact same calculations. For example if you don't trust his numbers derived from the asteroid scene in ESB, you can do your own analysis and compare your conclusions to his. After all, all his assumptions, calculations and conclusions are all right there. I have done so. And it doesn't take very long. If you do so you will likely find that your calculations are very close to Wong's.

My recomendation is to ask your annonymous poster to put up or shut up.

[NecronLord]

The only possible opponents for the SW civilization would be the Civilization from "Doc" Smith's Lensman series.

Stop right there. There's loads of series out there that could trash the empire without working up a sweat. There's a thread listing some somewhere.

[Solauren]

From my understanding, the Star Wars incredible cross sections books are on the same level as the movies, where in they are the guides to the events and technologies shown. They don't contradict anything, they explain it in clear english.

(I only have the cross section book from the first movie/trilogy. Mind you the Death Star cross section is cool. THe reactor is like 10 miles in diameter!)

Anyway, please point out to the poster Darth Wong's calculations are low end and are supported as low end by these books. The primary guns on a "20 year old" Assault Ship (compared to an ISD) are 200 GIGATONS each. Depending on your calculation method, that's 500 TW (1 ft/ton = 2711.64 watts, 200 Gigatons = 200,000,000,000 tons. 200,000,000,000 tons = 542328000000000 watts or 542.328 Terrawatts) or higher.

(I am of the school of though that 200 Gigatons means gigatons measure in foot-pounds. In that case, my math is right. If its explosive power, then that's a LOW number)

Challenging Math is a very, very hard thing to do, especially math that is back up with each step of the calculation shown, and the relevant rules listed and referenced, and worked double checked.

On that note, my bases for measurements use in my example come from
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/cgi-bin/easypower.cgi

[Alyeska]

From my understanding, the Star Wars incredible cross sections books are on the same level as the movies, where in they are the guides to the events and technologies shown. They don't contradict anything, they explain it in clear english.

Actualy the ICS books are not on the same level as the movies. The movies are the highest level and nothing else can equal them. However, the ICS books are still in the Canon level and hence anything they say that isn't directly contradicted by the movies stands. Basicaly that means 99.99% of what the ICS books say can stand.

[His Divine Shadow]

(I am of the school of though that 200 Gigatons means gigatons measure in foot-pounds. In that case, my math is right. If its explosive power, then that's a LOW number)

It's GT as in Gigatons of TNT
Or GT as in 4.184e18 joules.

[Sea Skimmer]

Wongs Star Wars calculations where accurate based off the existing evidence. We now know that the Empires technology is even more powerful thanks to ICS. As for his Star Wars stuff, the only thing I find questionable is his Federation ship count. It appears to count a major refit or rebuild as taking the same resources as building a new ship.

[jegs2]

The only possible opponents for the SW civilization would be the Civilization from "Doc" Smith's Lensman series. Civilization/Boskonia is contained within this galaxy *and* Lundmark's Nebula so the number of worlds would be about par. The inertialess Drive allows them to travel at comparable speeds with the Empire ships.

There are a number of races (even in the ST universe) that could defeat the Empire. The folks who built that time rock thingie and the beings that can blink things in and out of existance come to mind. I call those the Enigma Demigod Super Races (EDSR). Morover, there are forces outside of ST that could lay waste the Empire. The Culture comes to mind.

[Darth Servo]

What board did this come from? I need to go thump this idiot.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

From my understanding, the Star Wars incredible cross sections books are on the same level as the movies, where in they are the guides to the events and technologies shown. They don't contradict anything, they explain it in clear english.

(I only have the cross section book from the first movie/trilogy. Mind you the Death Star cross section is cool. THe reactor is like 10 miles in diameter!)

Anyway, please point out to the poster Darth Wong's calculations are low end and are supported as low end by these books. The primary guns on a "20 year old" Assault Ship (compared to an ISD) are 200 GIGATONS each. Depending on your calculation method, that's 500 TW (1 ft/ton = 2711.64 watts, 200 Gigatons = 200,000,000,000 tons. 200,000,000,000 tons = 542328000000000 watts or 542.328 Terrawatts) or higher.

(I am of the school of though that 200 Gigatons means gigatons measure in foot-pounds. In that case, my math is right. If its explosive power, then that's a LOW number)

Challenging Math is a very, very hard thing to do, especially math that is back up with each step of the calculation shown, and the relevant rules listed and referenced, and worked double checked.

On that note, my bases for measurements use in my example come from
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/cgi-bin/easypower.cgi

You are totally wrong. 200 gigatons is over 800 million terajoules, and since TLs are 1/15second, that's over 12 billion terawatts. Gigaton is a unit of energy, 1 billion times a ton, which is 4 billion joules.

[Ender]

A member from a forum where I usually go said this:

please do not reference anything from Stardestroyer.net. there was a huge debate on the other site i go to about SW vs ST, where i proved many of Mr. Wong's calculations inaccurate, and the correct calculations were nowhere near what he theorized. it actually caused some major debate on the stardestroyer.net forums, where Wong actually replied to some of my comments but basically just insulted my intelligence on the matter.

anyways, after saying that, i would say that SW would beat ST in some aspects, but ST would win in others. for example, im sure some Star Destroyers could take out Federation ships, but then again i think the Borg could take out the Death Star. it's all a matter of what you are comparing.

Now, are Wong's calculations correct? Aside from Wong, what other sources concur with him?

I am asking him on the sources and whatnot of this stuff he is saying.

But the point still remains: Are Wong's calcs accurate? Does any official cannon guide book concur with him to some degree?

No flames plz....

Do you have a link to that post please?

[Master of Ossus]

A member from a forum where I usually go said this:

please do not reference anything from Stardestroyer.net. there was a huge debate on the other site i go to about SW vs ST, where i proved many of Mr. Wong's calculations inaccurate, and the correct calculations were nowhere near what he theorized. it actually caused some major debate on the stardestroyer.net forums, where Wong actually replied to some of my comments but basically just insulted my intelligence on the matter.

anyways, after saying that, i would say that SW would beat ST in some aspects, but ST would win in others. for example, im sure some Star Destroyers could take out Federation ships, but then again i think the Borg could take out the Death Star. it's all a matter of what you are comparing.

Now, are Wong's calculations correct? Aside from Wong, what other sources concur with him?

I am asking him on the sources and whatnot of this stuff he is saying.

But the point still remains: Are Wong's calcs accurate? Does any official cannon guide book concur with him to some degree?

No flames plz....

Who said this? I imagine that some people actually have brought up reasonable points, but it is VERY rare to see Mike's work criticized, which is a testament to its accuracy and integrity.

Edit: Incidentally, remember that a LOT of people will brag about how they shot down Mike Wong's work, etc. etc. etc. Almost no one has done it. From his claim that Mike didn't really answer his points, and mostly flamed him, I would assume this was a standard issue Trek-troll, and that his statements can be dismissed as the ravings of a madman.

[Master of Ossus]

From my understanding, the Star Wars incredible cross sections books are on the same level as the movies, where in they are the guides to the events and technologies shown. They don't contradict anything, they explain it in clear english.

That would make them official (as in, lower than the films, novelizations, radio dramas and scripts, which are all forms of canon).

(I only have the cross section book from the first movie/trilogy. Mind you the Death Star cross section is cool. THe reactor is like 10 miles in diameter!)

Good for you.

Anyway, please point out to the poster Darth Wong's calculations are low end and are supported as low end by these books. The primary guns on a "20 year old" Assault Ship (compared to an ISD) are 200 GIGATONS each. Depending on your calculation method, that's 500 TW (1 ft/ton = 2711.64 watts, 200 Gigatons = 200,000,000,000 tons. 200,000,000,000 tons = 542328000000000 watts or 542.328 Terrawatts) or higher.

Okay, first of all, Gigaton is a measure of energy. It's a substantial amount of energy, for our purposes. You cannot directly convert energy into power (watts) without knowing the length of time over which the energy is being used/released. You need a time frame, which is about 1/15 of one second in SW turbolasers. Finally, an Acclamator is not an assault ship, but a mere troop transport.

[Solauren]

Actually, according to Starwars.com, and most of the sources out there I have read, both offical and unoffical, its called a "Republic Assault Ship"

*shrugs*

Off course, that's nit picking. It can carry 15,000 troopers, support equippment, and perform a BDZ on a target planet. I'll call it whatever the hell the captain of it wants me too

Oh, thanks for reminding me about the time point with watts/joules. I need to take that into consideration next time

[Master of Ossus]

and perform a BDZ on a target planet. I'll call it whatever the hell the captain of it wants me too

It doesn't appear to be able to BDZ a planet by itself. The ICS refers to groups of them being able to do so, but its actual firepower (and, therefore, ability to destroy a planet using a BDZ), appears to be limited by either the maintenance required by the weapons, fuel, etc.

[Solauren]

Actually, all the offical source material says the Acclamator's where the first ship in the star wars galaxy to be able to perform a BDZ

[Ender]

and perform a BDZ on a target planet. I'll call it whatever the hell the captain of it wants me too

It doesn't appear to be able to BDZ a planet by itself. The ICS refers to groups of them being able to do so, but its actual firepower (and, therefore, ability to destroy a planet using a BDZ), appears to be limited by either the maintenance required by the weapons, fuel, etc.

Actually, a single one can throw down enough energy to do it in one hour. I would assume the need for multiple Acclamators would be the second part: No one escapes. An Acclamator does not carry any fighters like later ships do, which means that anyone who gets off the ground can run for it. I would assume the others are there just to prevent anyone from running to hyperspace.

[Ender]

Actually, all the offical source material says the Acclamator's where the first ship in the star wars galaxy to be able to perform a BDZ

IIRC, they say that the Clone Wars were when a BDZ was first preformed, not that Acclamators were the first ships to preform it. Because any group of ships can preform one. It would take 3 dreadnaughts to do it, the same number of Acclamators it takes.