Yuuzhan Vong vs. Star Trek

Lord HuMan · Post by **Lord HuMan** » 2002-07-10 07:32pm

Does anyone have any thoughts on how Yuuzhan Vong "technology" would fare against Star Trek technology? I would imagine that the low-powered phaser bursts would not be fast or powerful enough to overwhelm a void generated by a Dovin Basal... And because a YV Warrior could probably take on a Klingon, Star Trek ground forces could never hold up against Yuuzhan Vong. What does everyone else think?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-10 07:49pm

Its organic technology. That alone should make it the most powerful thing in Trek.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-10 07:49pm

Vong fighters weapons wouldnt work against Starfleets hulls due to their high temp resistance.

The Capital ships could prove a problem - widespread torp dispersal may be useful and transporters would be of use dependant upon how the blackhole generators would respond.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-10 09:53pm

YV ordnance is described as plasma, so the Borg are screwed. And since gravity is hell on ST hulls, the dovin basals, who after dealing with the SW shields might assume ST shields were the same, could destroy ST ships without over firing a shot.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-10 09:55pm

Phasers and most of the other beam weapons used in the ST universe move at near light speed, I would like to see a Basal be able to suck in something moving that fast on a consistent basis without considerable fatigue. The strain of just absorbing turbolaser fire, which is a lot slower than light speed after a while strains the Basals. In fact because they use near light speed weapons, Star Trek should fair at least equal to Star Wars, I won't say better because there is the problem with their weapons, on average- there are several races who could easily match or exceed SW capabilities, being significantly less powerful than those on Republic and Imperial warships. However, widespread use of metaphasic shields capable of allowing ships to survive within a star, should provide significant protection against the thermal effects of the Vong's weapon while concentrated fire from beam weapons, especially phasers which have been clearly established to have a great deal of heat to them, could possibly melt Vong armor faster than turbolaser fire as a beam weapon makes contact longer than a turbolaser does, heating the armor for longer periods. Vong organic technology is just asking for Borg and Federation nano-probe weapons and as Voyager has returned from the Delta Quadrant the Federation would be able to replicate nano-probes for use in torpedo warheads.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-10 10:05pm

TLs also more powerful than phasers, which means more total energy absorbed, which taxes the dovin basals. Plus, you're forgetting that the YV ships can move at least as fast as other SW ships, which means that even if nanoprobes worked, the odds of catching a YV ship in a situation where you could effectively deploy the nanoprobes is practically nil.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-10 10:50pm

In fleet combat ships move VERY slow in order to avoid collissions because of the fact that they are often in tight formation. You see this in ROTJ, the Stardestroyers were barely even moving or manuvering and the Rebel fleet was only slightly more mobile. Close quarters combat is extremely dangerous for capital ships because of their sheer size and lack of manuverability, this is something true for Star Trek as well. During the Dominion war the ships involved were moving significantly slower than their maximum speed because of the size of the engagement there is little room to manuver at high speeds and if you try to you do so at your own risk because you liable to slam your ship into another ship.

Also nano-probe warheads can be fitted to standard torpedos and can even used with energy weapons (in Voyager, phaser rifles were modified to fire nano-probes when a member of Species 8472 invaded the ship). I doubt very much that in a fleet combat situation, that the Vong capital ships could avoid torpedo salvos even because of speed. The standard proposal for killing fighters, proximity detonating torpedos, also applies to the Vong coral skippers. Actually nano-probe equipped torpedos would be even more dangerous because a torpedo detonation not merely concentrate it's destructive force at one point on the craft's hull like beam and pulse weapons but spray the nanoprobes so the nano-probes cannot be as easily absorbed by a basal's singularity or else it would force a basal to project a larger than normal singularity in order to fully protect the craft from the cloud of nano-probes which is a larger than normal strain on the basal, which would fatigue it to the point of loosing effectiveness faster and thus rendering the craft vulnerable to weapons fire sooner.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2002-07-10 10:50pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:Phasers and most of the other beam weapons used in the ST universe move at near light speed, I would like to see a Basal be able to suck in something moving that fast on a consistent basis without considerable fatigue.

Yes, they do get fatigued after time, but they are capable of bending spacetime so much that light is indeed sucked in. That's why they were described as miniature black holes at first.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-10 11:01pm

Phasers don't move even close to lightspeed. One can see them visibly propogate.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-10 11:17pm

Only if you slow down the film considerably. It moves faster than the average human eye can process it. Typically the beam is fired and hits faster than you can blink. The only time it's not extremely slow is when the energy is moving towards the point on the array where it will fire.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-10 11:19pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:In fleet combat ships move VERY slow in order to avoid collissions because of the fact that they are often in tight formation.

I know that. I was refering to their superluminal speed, as in they can match the speed of hyperdrive.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-10 11:27pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:Only if you slow down the film considerably. It moves faster than the average human eye can process it. Typically the beam is fired and hits faster than you can blink. The only time it's not extremely slow is when the energy is moving towards the point on the array where it will fire.

If that's the case, then at close range it should be nearly impossible to miss, since if we can't see it, we can't dodge it. Yet we see phasers miss regularly. Either ST ships have worse computers than the home home computers, or they move slowly enough to dodge.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-10 11:32pm

Hyperdrive is fairly worthless in uncharted territory, especially vast uncharted territory. That is probably a critical reason why the Vong infiltrated the New Republic in the first place, They need directions so they don't jump their invasion fleet out of hyperspace in a black hole, star, planet, asteroid belt ect. If this battle is taking place in the Milky Way then the Vong are at a considerable information disadvantage unless they had spies infiltrating major governments in all the quadrants in order to gain access to their starmaps. Even then, it would be exceptionally difficult to infiltrate the few races that could actually have detailed maps of the entire galaxy such as the Voth. Infiltrating other less advanced races would be easier but give them an incomplete map of the galaxy and force them to assume that the areas they do have maps for have been thoroughly mapped and nothing dangerous has gone unnoticed.

Also, the thought just occurred to me that a major victory could be achieved fairly neatly by luring the Vong into a space/time distortion. The Milky Way in the ST universe is CRAWLING with them.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-10 11:44pm

What exactly do you mean, space/time distortion?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-10 11:52pm

I'm thinking he means all the plot devices that seem to pop up here and there. Yes there certainly seem to be many different kinds of time/space type things all around the ST galaxy. Its a wonder the whole thing hasn't collapsed in on itself. Still, won't the Vong scan for these kinds of things? I mean you try to look for the dangerous shit when traveling around don't you?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-10 11:53pm

lol who knows but they are all over the place.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-10 11:58pm

Basically yes.

You set up a massive array designed to fool sensors into believing an ususpecting fleet is present in the area. The Vong jump in, only to find that this is no fleet, only a massive array named Enterprise. The name Enterprise automatically attracts a massive, destructive temporal anomaly which freezes the Vong fleet in time or erases it from history.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-11 12:02am

Nice to see you have a sense of humor

Why not paint it bright red just for effect

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-11 12:10am

You can't paint it red! Well maybe the Starfleet pennants, gotta have them. But YOU HAVE to have NCC-1701-F (for fraud or fuck, we lost another one) in big bold letters so the temporal anomaly knows it's supposed to go after it.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-11 12:12am

Heh, well if its anything like the other NCC-1701-F its fucked.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-11 02:03am

I don't think that the Yuuzhan Vong use traditional hyperdrives. If they do, then they are proof positive that hyperdrives do work in uncharted territory--they've conquered a brand new galaxy in just a few years. If they don't, then the post about how their hyperdrives wouldn't work is irrelevent.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 02:05am

They sent spies in first who could gather maps.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-11 08:24am

TheDarkling wrote:They sent spies in first who could gather maps.

And they can't do the same...why?

The Federation is fucked.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-11 08:55am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Why do Trekkies seem to think mapping a galaxy is hard?

Cause their sensors and supralightdrives are simply pathetic, it took them a long time to map their portions of the galaxy.
And they assume others like the Empire won't have superior tech, so they think it'll take them as long to map the galaxy as it took them.
Oh, and they say maps are highly guarded secrets because they want to use that as an excuse to prevent the fight between Empire and Federation (which they would lose by any means) to happen at all.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-11 09:57am

Grand Admiral Thrawn: They could be staying beneath the notice inside the federation would be differcult with all their medicle scanners etc.