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Last night I happened to catch the last fifteen minutes of "Marauders". It was so appalling, I can't help but rant at it.

Within two minutes of watching it, even coming in the middle, I was saying "This is a bad ripoff of The Magnificent Seven."

Then the "action" started. Oh dreary, dreary me.

• Reed shoots at the Klingons from high ground with a rifle that has a very obvious scope, yet he can't seem to hit a damn thing.
• Klingon "warriors" repeatedly miss unarmed, untrained civilians with their bat'leths.
• The Klingons continue to walk around in the open in a tight group, even though they know there's a sniper in the area.
• When caught in the lame trap, the Klingons stand there like idiots instead of just jumping through the flames (which they could probably have done with little risk of injury) or calling their ship to transport them to a safe location (even though their ship transports them out of the trap at the end of the episode).
• The Klingons actually buy the colonists claim that "they'll be ready" if the Klingons ever try to come back to extort deuterium again.

Just fifteen minutes of viewing to conclude that this episode was awful beyond comprehension. It goes without saying that the story was written by B&B! What will it take before Paramount realizes that these guys are blithering idiots?

Addendum: I don't even want to go into the whole issue with a "deuterium mine" which has vast quantities of flammable deuterium gas lying just beneath the planet's surface. It's abundantly clear that B&B have no clue what deuterium is. It disgusts me that Paramount actually pays these morons to write this crap.

Yes, that episode is quite possibly the worst episode for Enterprise, and that says alot I think.

that is one of the few episode of boobyprize i have seen and i was just beside myself. B&B have show a complete ignorance to strategy and combat. (not to mention continuity, logic, technology, science etc., but thats an argument for another day) It reminded me of a really bad A-Team episode where they fought off an army of bad guys and shot lots of guns, BUT NOBODY GOT HURT! WTF?

In the place of the ENT crew, i'd have armed the colonists, taught them to shoot, then launch a massive surprise attack and butcher the Klingon landing party (Assuming the morons could actually hit anything) and launch a simoultanious assault on the klingon tanker with Enterprise and blow it up. Problem solved

Here's another question: Why do the Klingon transporters materialize people faster than the transporters in Picard's time? They sure weren't that when Kirk and Spock delt with them...

That wouldn't have happened, as it would have made sense...

Col. Crackpot wrote:that is one of the few episode of boobyprize i have seen and i was just beside myself. B&B have show a complete ignorance to strategy and combat. (not to mention continuity, logic, technology, science etc., but thats an argument for another day) It reminded me of a really bad A-Team episode where they fought off an army of bad guys and shot lots of guns, BUT NOBODY GOT HURT! WTF?

That was a RIDICULOUS episode. I simply could not BELIEVE the amount of crap that was going on. When I first saw it, my dad was visiting me from Iowa. He walked in, saw the Klingons get caught in the little circle, and we started talking about how long the Klingons would take to beam out of it, then beam back in and attack the little colonists. Then it never happened. We both sat there with slack jaws for some time before turning the TV off.

In terms of tactical problems with the episode, after T'Pol beats the crap out of the armed Klingon and knocks him to the ground, he actually lets go of his bat'leth. His hand is a few centimeters away, but he's clearly not holding it. T'Pol is standing within easy reaching distance of his weapon, but does NOT confiscate it while the Klingon is rolling around in agony. Instead she just runs off. You'd think she would have wanted the weapon for use as a weapon for the colonists, or as a further bargaining chip for the future negotiations with the Klingons.

It is fairly clear to me that for some godawful reason the Ent crew strove to prevent any injury to the Klingons, or indeed, any cassus belli whatsoever.

Howedar wrote:It is fairly clear to me that for some godawful reason the Ent crew strove to prevent any injury to the Klingons, or indeed, any cassus belli whatsoever.

That doesn't mean you should allow an enemy to keep a potentially dangerous weapon, particularly since the Klingon wasn't dead and would obviously recover after a few seconds of moanin' and groanin'.

Master of Ossus wrote:In terms of tactical problems with the episode, after T'Pol beats the crap out of the armed Klingon and knocks him to the ground, he actually lets go of his bat'leth. His hand is a few centimeters away, but he's clearly not holding it. T'Pol is standing within easy reaching distance of his weapon, but does NOT confiscate it while the Klingon is rolling around in agony. Instead she just runs off. You'd think she would have wanted the weapon for use as a weapon for the colonists, or as a further bargaining chip for the future negotiations with the Klingons.

It is inexcusable (not to mention illogical) for a combatant to leave an enemy behind healthy and armed.

Three simple observations:
1) For their military incompetence, the Klingons deserved to be killed in an ambush.
2) For their military incompletence, Archer and his officers deserved to be killed by intelligent adversaries. Lacking intelligent enemies, they deserved to be court martialed for incompetence.
3) The colonists deserved to be killed for participating in this ridiculous plan and for idiotically thinking the Klingons would simply go away instead of returning with reinforcements torture and/or kill the lot of them.

*Brief cooling off*

OK, I don't really think people deserve to have horrible things happen to them, but foolish actions like those we saw in this episode certainly would result in death in any real-world crisis of this sort.

I've always kind of assumed that the colonists would be killed by whoever the next guy was that came around, and that Archer hadn't really done them any favors by helping them out. On the other hand, anyone who's crappy enough to be scared by the Klingons that had subjugated that colony is probably not big and scary enough to growl the colonists into submission after Archer's pep-talk worked.

And what was with that stupid colonist who threw a rock at one of the Klingons? Could she have come up with a less reliable plan of attack?

Ted C wrote:And what was with that stupid colonist who threw a rock at one of the Klingons? Could she have come up with a less reliable plan of attack?

This whole thing reminds me of the Simpsons Halloween Special with the monkey's paw. Can't you just see the Klingons threatening the colonists by saying things like, "Your superior intellect is no match for our pathetic weapons," and later "He's got a board with a nail through it!"

My take on the episode, and the battle incompitence in general, is the fact that Archer and co didn't want the Klingons hurt, killed or otherwise maimed. We must remember that they were trying to lure them to a different spot, and "scare them". Unarmed, most normal people (not necessarily Klingons) would probably conceed before you even got to the big bad plan, and I'm guessing that they wanted to show somehow that the Klingons were helpless with all their weapons, at the mercy of the colonists.

Having said that, this was just a horrible horrible episode, and I defend the idiots who made it not one bit. First off, would not the Klingons notice that the coordinates for transporting down to the settlement were suddenly DIFFERENT than where the settlement had been a few days ago? Would this not activate a dim, but still somewhat useful little lightbulb in their heads? Right there, the Klingons should have known what was going on.

Further, what is stopping the Klingons, even in their little frieghter-like ship, from orbital bombardment? It was stated that Enterprise could "most likely" take the Klingons on and win, indicating that they probably had at least some weapons aboard. Bing bang boom, the colonists no longer live. Simple solution.

Finally, why didn't they just KILL THEM? I know it's "Starfleet" but geez. According to T'Pol, they probably were not under the High Council, which probably meant they were similar to pirates, or the like. No one's going to miss them when they're gone. Kill the bastards. If not, then disable them, take them hostage, and interrogate them for information of their region of space.

Naturally some of the above can be argued, but I feel as though this is still a sub par episode, even for Enterprise.

Another problem: Archer and T'Pol stated that those Klingons were NOT associated with the high command, and that they were basically rogues. Archer also said that their ship was a freighter. The Enterprise could take it.

Instead of risking the lives of the colonists with their rediculous ambush idea, why not confront the freighter with the Enterprise and blow it to hell? They could have taken care of the problem right then and there. Instead, they wait for the Klingons on the planet and fight with them.

I am generally a supporter of Enterpirse, and can usually find something in an ENT. epp that makes it at least watchable. But this eppisode had even me going WTF WERE YOU THINKING!!!! [comic book guy]Worst eppisode EVER![/comic book guy] I wound up laughing my ass off at the sheer stupiditiy of all parties involved. I mean, I'm no grunt, but EVEN I know that the entire battle scene was ludicrous.

Fortunately, these types of eppisodes have largely dissapeard from the last half dozen epps of the season. (crosses fingers that the good times continue)

Why didn't they beam the damn Klingons into the brig?

^Same reason they didn't kill them outright. They only wanted to scare them off while making the colonists feel all tough and powerful. In reality, as soon as the Ent. leaves, the Klingons come back and stun the colonists from orbit. They then beam down and tie em all up while they're KOed. Then, they proceed to torture the lot of them in front of all of them, then kill the ringleaders, then demand 2x the Deuterium for the next shipment... OR ELSE! Given that they'll otherwise be forced to find another source anyways, they might very well decide to kill MOST of the colonists in retalliation.

I'm sorry, I cannot stick up for Enterprise in any way, shape or form. Since B & B took over, we have seen nothing but absolute shit. I am just waiting for Q to be featured on an Enterprise episode... Hell, we've seen B & B's favorite already, the Borg.

Master of Ossus wrote: That doesn't mean you should allow an enemy to keep a potentially dangerous weapon, particularly since the Klingon wasn't dead and would obviously recover after a few seconds of moanin' and groanin'.

That falling under the "no cassus belli whatsoever." Apparently they didn't want to take Mr. Klingon's rightful property.



I never claimed it made sense.

Ted C wrote:Last night I happened to catch the last fifteen minutes of "Marauders". It was so appalling, I can't help but rant at it.

Within two minutes of watching it, even coming in the middle, I was saying "This is a bad ripoff of The Magnificent Seven."

Then the "action" started. Oh dreary, dreary me.

• Reed shoots at the Klingons from high ground with a rifle that has a very obvious scope, yet he can't seem to hit a damn thing.
• Klingon "warriors" repeatedly miss unarmed, untrained civilians with their bat'leths.
• The Klingons continue to walk around in the open in a tight group, even though they know there's a sniper in the area.
• When caught in the lame trap, the Klingons stand there like idiots instead of just jumping through the flames (which they could probably have done with little risk of injury) or calling their ship to transport them to a safe location (even though their ship transports them out of the trap at the end of the episode).
• The Klingons actually buy the colonists claim that "they'll be ready" if the Klingons ever try to come back to extort deuterium again.

Just fifteen minutes of viewing to conclude that this episode was awful beyond comprehension. It goes without saying that the story was written by B&B! What will it take before Paramount realizes that these guys are blithering idiots?

Addendum: I don't even want to go into the whole issue with a "deuterium mine" which has vast quantities of flammable deuterium gas lying just beneath the planet's surface. It's abundantly clear that B&B have no clue what deuterium is. It disgusts me that Paramount actually pays these morons to write this crap.

Well, everything is quite easily explained.

To address your points:

1. Reed is English. If episodes of The Avengers and Doctor Who have taught us nothing else, it's that an Englishman with a rifle can hit nothing. Especially a pineapple-loving, ambiguously heterosexual Englishman from Indonesia.

2. How are those Klingons supposed to hit those civilians? Those civilians have minutes and minutes of intense aikido training from Mr. Miyagi (AKA T'Pol)! Weapons do nothing against aikido! Right? Has the Karate Kid series of movies ever been wrong about this? Ever?

3. Snipers with energy weapons patently can't hit anything beyond a range of fifty meters. And even if the colonists had produced a few Klingon flour mortars, the Klingon warriors were standing far enough apart that at most one of their number would have been within the weapon's blast radius of, what, 3 or 4 inches? Add to that the protective miasma of that many closely packed and unwashed Klingons and you've got a winning strategy.

4. The klingons ARE idiots! Plus, deuterium is obviously incredibly rare, an incredibly hot-burning plasmogenic alloy. It's also obviously every bit as fictional as made up countries, like Finland or Canada. That deuterium shares a name with a relatively common isotope of hydrogen, the single most common element in the universe, and should be easily refinable from any cometary body or planetary ocean, is entirely immaterial. Just ignore The Heroes of Telemark. Also calling for tactical redeployment would have been tantamount to running away like little babies. Much better and more honorable to stand slack-jawed and negotiate a formal act of actually running away like little babies.

5. The colonists will be ready. By the time the Klingons figure out exactly what lies to tell at home to justify their running bravely away from practically defenseless colonists, the colony will have established a thriving industrial base, with extensive orbital defenses, a large fleet of starships for patrol and defense, and a population numbering in the billions.

All told, it's just another illustration of the thoroughgoing contempt that Berman and Braga appear to harbor for the pathetic, pimple-faced geeks who might actually watch the show because they can't get dates with girls. Based on one little TV interview, one of them (I can't recall which one) dismissed the TNG "phaser fired from torpedo launcher" FX screwup by saying, in paraphrase (because I don't have the statement on tape), "After all these years I still haven't figured out what the difference is supposed to be between phasers and photon torpedoes."

is anyone else befuddled by the fact that they were DIGGING IN THE GROUND FOR DEUTERIUM! In the fucking ground! hello!?!?

Col. Crackpot wrote:is anyone else befuddled by the fact that they were DIGGING IN THE GROUND FOR DEUTERIUM! In the fucking ground! hello!?!?

Did you not read my addendum in the opening post?

Ted C wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:is anyone else befuddled by the fact that they were DIGGING IN THE GROUND FOR DEUTERIUM! In the fucking ground! hello!?!?

Did you not read my addendum in the opening post?

oops!

Col. Crackpot wrote:that is one of the few episode of boobyprize i have seen and i was just beside myself. B&B have show a complete ignorance to strategy and combat. (not to mention continuity, logic, technology, science etc., but thats an argument for another day) It reminded me of a really bad A-Team episode where they fought off an army of bad guys and shot lots of guns, BUT NOBODY GOT HURT! WTF?

The A-Team comment is a perfect analogy, lots of shooting, fighting, and no ones dies.