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At the beginning of the Dominion War, some smart apple at Starfleet Command gets the bright idea to create a group of holographic advisors to help plan their war strategy.

These holographic "Joint Chiefs" accurately duplicate the knowledge, personality, behavior, and intelligence of the originals. In addition, they all speak fluent english, and they have been given thorough understanding of 24th century technology, Federation strategic assets, and all of the intelligence available to Starfleet on their allies and enemies. While some of them were enemies in life, they are united in their desire to help the Federation defeat the Dominion.

The "Joint Chiefs" include:
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
- General George S. Patton
- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring
- Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

How might the advice of this council affect Federation strategy and performance in the Dominion War?

I thought Goring was an idiot?

StarshipTitanic wrote:I thought Goring was an idiot?

As I recall, he was.

Throwing in Rommel complicates matters.. Those two now fight, as they did in life, about how to deploy.

Yamato, well, I have a feeling he'll want everything to support the Galaxies in their glorious attacks(As, IIRC, that was his opinion on battleships and the rest of fleets).

I don't recall much about Halsey.

Patton? Sure, he made some good speeches, but did he ever pull of a victory that couldn't be done by most? Again, insufficient data.

Einsenhower, dunno.

Ted C wrote: The "Joint Chiefs" include:
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
- General George S. Patton
- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring
- Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

Where the heck is Chester Nimitz?

Patton went really fast, which is why people thought he was a good general. Of course, that cost a lot of lives. He also demanded that everyone be neat n' pretty, down to the frontline troops. This delayed an attack for four hours once, as grubby soldiers from another army needed maps from his HQ and they kept being stopped.

Ted C wrote:- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Get these names off the list pronto.

Kitsune wrote:

Ted C wrote: The "Joint Chiefs" include:
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
- General George S. Patton
- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring
- Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

Where the heck is Chester Nimitz?

and Chesty Puller!

StarshipTitanic wrote:Patton went really fast, which is why people thought he was a good general. Of course, that cost a lot of lives. He also demanded that everyone be neat n' pretty, down to the frontline troops. This delayed an attack for four hours once, as grubby soldiers from another army needed maps from his HQ and they kept being stopped.

Patton went very fast for a reason. Losing 50 men moving quickly to gain a crossroad was much better than losing 200 people a wek later taking that crossroad because you moved so slow the Germans had time to prep the defences for it.

3rd Army had the best kill to lose ratio of any Army unit in Europe fielded by the Allies. Patton was also the only Allied General who could get his forces in position fast enough to matter when dealing with the German counteroffensive and in the final days of the war he took his entire army over the Alps (only to have to turn around and go back) a feat not accomplished since Hannibal did it oh so many years ago.


As for the neat and pretty line that is a load of crap. Patton understood moral and discipline. Soldiers acted like soldiers when they looked like soldiers. Beyond that he was not a stickler for the parade ground look.

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:

Ted C wrote:- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Get these names off the list pronto.

Halsey has his place. He would make an excellant commander in the beginning of the war when the Federation is heavily outnumbered and fighting a holding action or limited offensive. That is where Halsey is at his best thinking on his feat.

Halsey though is not a deep thinker or planner, you are better with Spruance though he had a habit of being way too conservative when on the offensive. The best choice in my opinion was Admiral Mitscher who was the carrier commander under both Halsey and Spruance. In my opinion he was a better commander than either of his superiors.

A proper joint chiefs would be more along the lines of:

Eisenhower
King
Marshall
LeMay

If you are going to send some of them into the field as commanders of actual forces in battle then the following should be added:

Mitscher
Patton
Halsey
Rommel
Zhukov - This one is a maybe while he was a great commander his habit of huge4 casualties would probably be more than the Federation would be willing to accept.

Yamamoto is a poor choice, he designed overly complicated plans and often whittled away his advantage by dividing his forces when concentration of force was beneficial.

Goring was a political buffoon with no real talent at all. He was a WW1 fighter ace who had power in WW2 only because Hitler like him. It was Goring's ego more than anything else that saved the British Army at Dunkirk.

Keep going, I'm getting a wonderful history review here: I mostly just picked familiar names off a WW2 website.

Settle on any six WW2 high commanders that suit you, then get back to the business of how they would run the Federation's war with the Dominion. Keep in mind of course, that since they're not "real" people, they can't give orders, they can only recommend strategies and tactics.

Patton, Master of Blitzkrieg. Actually he came up with the tactics before the Germans named it that. Patton was the best General among the Allies. Patton Uncovered

FOG3 wrote:Patton, Master of Blitzkrieg. Actually he came up with the tactics before the Germans named it that. Patton was the best General among the Allies. Patton Uncovered

I wonder if you realize Blitzkrieg is an inappropriate strategy for the Dominion war.

Ideally I'd want the US senior officers from the Pacific war. Don't remember names, but they fought an island hopping campaign against an overstretched enemy with fanatical ground troops and bigger guns. IE, an opponent alot like the Dominion.

SirNitram wrote:Ideally I'd want the US senior officers from the Pacific war. Don't remember names, but they fought an island hopping campaign against an overstretched enemy with fanatical ground troops and bigger guns. IE, an opponent alot like the Dominion.

Halsey?
Nimitz?
MacArthur?

Ted C wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Ideally I'd want the US senior officers from the Pacific war. Don't remember names, but they fought an island hopping campaign against an overstretched enemy with fanatical ground troops and bigger guns. IE, an opponent alot like the Dominion.

Halsey?
Nimitz?
MacArthur?

Not MacArthur.

Ted C wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Ideally I'd want the US senior officers from the Pacific war. Don't remember names, but they fought an island hopping campaign against an overstretched enemy with fanatical ground troops and bigger guns. IE, an opponent alot like the Dominion.

Halsey?
Nimitz?
MacArthur?

Iffy on MacArthur. But Halsey and Nimitz definately.

SirNitram wrote:
Ideally I'd want the US senior officers from the Pacific war. Don't remember names, but they fought an island hopping campaign against an overstretched enemy with fanatical ground troops and bigger guns. IE, an opponent alot like the Dominion.

You'd want Halsey, Mitscher, Spruance and Nimitz. Halsey and Mitscher switched off commanding the fast carriers, TF 38 and TF 58 respectively. While Spruance commanded Fifth Fleet under which the carriers and several other task forces operated. Nimitz commanded the entire Pacific fleet. There was also Kinkaid who commanded Seventh fleet in support of Macarthur Southern Pacific and later South West Pacific Command, you of course do not want Macarthur.



This list sucks, out of the six only two are naval commanders, one is a total idiot and one wants to command a battalion.

As I recall Yamamoto thought little of battleships.

Besides advising immediate surrender they would probably all generate different strategies with most being unique and would reach indecision.

Jeremy wrote:As I recall Yamamoto thought little of battleships.

Yamamoto thought quite highly of battleships, he just didn't deny the utility of carrier aircraft like some Japanese admirals did.

Sea Skimmer wrote:You'd want Halsey, Mitscher, Spruance and Nimitz.

OK, give me the full names again (I can easily find Nimitz and Halsey, but it's easier to just have them in one place) and I'll start this thread over again with them as the "Joint Chiefs". Include any info about them that you think would be important to the discussion.

It still might be worthwhile to include some Army/Marine commanders, though, since the Federation will need to take some planets in the course of this campaign.

When it restarts, we'll assume that Starfleet Command starts using its "consultants" right after the Dominion destroys the USS Odyssey.

Halsey might be a better field commander than strategist, from what I've heard about him.

First off, you can bet your britches that Rommel, Patton, and Eisenhower will all be pushing for the creation of an Independent "branch" for ground combat, in otherwords an Army. If that fails then they will definatly try to at least get a "Marine" Corps organized. You can also bet that you'll be seeing enlisted men serving officers instead of having combat units filled with nothing but officers.

Once this comes to pass, I'd wager that you'll start seeing speicalized groud combat equipment in service again. Mortars and machine guns for sure, but long range artillery would be a definate possibility. Flack jackets/Body Armor, Helmets, Combat boots, Camaflouging Fatigues, and entrenching tools would also likely see a comeback. I'm also willing to bet that the entrenching tool will probably be a shovel/spade if these three have anything to say on the matter; whatever else you may say about them, these tools are reliable. After reviewing how often combat comes to close quarters, you can bet that these three would also recommend bayonets and possibly a sturdier rifle. Eisenhower would definatly push for a dedicated specialized planetary landing craft, considering his expirence at D-Day. Rommel and Patton would push for close tactical airsupport craft and Armor/APC units, both of them realize the importance of movement.

Regardless of how effective it might be, I can't imagine any of these officers actually recommending the use of chemical weapons under less then dire circumstances though. First off, they are all familiar with the nature of the weapons from WWI and realize how horrible the weapons really were. Secondly, the officers probably already know how squemish Starfleet personel are. I can see them recommending development and produciton of such weapons, as well as countermeasures, just in the situation grew desperate enough for them to actually be employed.


As for the Naval Arm, Yamamoto and Halsey would probably both push for the development of specialized "carrier" units equiped with a cloak. Carrying Warp Capable Fighters/Bombers these ships would have all the advantages of aircraft carriers while being relativly invulnerable to counter attack; the only time they would need to decloak would be to launch and retrieve aircraft. Needless to say, some retraining of the operational methods of Starfleet Captains and Admirals would be necessary for them to get the full potential out of these vessels.


You can also bet that Yamamoto would start research on vessels capable of going toe to toe with the large Klingon and Dominion Battleships...... renaming the first six vessels after the "Yamato" and "Iowa" class vessels would certainly be a nice touch.

Finally, Hermann Goring would be de-activated because even Starfleet would quickly realize how useless this Goring really was. If on the other hand they listen to Goring you can bet you'll see silly situations like the "Shuttle" fleet trying to assault the Cardassian Homeworld because Goring claimed that it was possible; regardless of evidence to the contrary.

Taking all this into account, if Starfleet listened to the advise offered by these experts from the past (excluding Goring of course) you can bet that Starfleet and the new Army would be kicking ass and taking names relativly soon.

Oh, and Grenades. You'd definatly see Grenades.

Ted C wrote: The "Joint Chiefs" include:
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
- General George S. Patton
- Admiral William F. Halsey
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
- Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring
- Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

A few points. Appart from Eisenhower I don't think any one of them belong in the general staff.
I would much rather have Patton and Rommel as fieldcommanders. Göring have no buissiness there unless it's to shine shoes or serve drinks. I would rather have Spruance than Halsey, and once again as fieldcommanders, and Yamamoto, despite all his awesome rep, fails to impress me - Give me Nimitz instead. I would also nominate von Mannstein to the staff and also Guderian, if we didn't allready have Rommel and Patton. Marshall should also be on the list.

CJvR wrote:A few points. Appart from Eisenhower I don't think any one of them belong in the general staff.
I would much rather have Patton and Rommel as fieldcommanders. Göring have no buissiness there unless it's to shine shoes or serve drinks. I would rather have Spruance than Halsey, and once again as fieldcommanders, and Yamamoto, despite all his awesome rep, fails to impress me - Give me Nimitz instead. I would also nominate von Mannstein to the staff and also Guderian, if we didn't allready have Rommel and Patton. Marshall should also be on the list.

You can only have six, and none of them can actually be field commanders. These are holographic simulations; no one will take orders from them, although they may take their advice.