H.R. 2038, Is this for real?!

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H.R. 2038, Is this for real?!

Post by Nathan F »

Take a look at the latest anti-gun legislation being fielded for the House of Representatives. What do you think?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.2038:

New Lists of Banned Guns:
`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

`(ii) AR-10;

`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

`(iv) AR70;

`(v) Calico Liberty;

`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

`(xi) M1 Carbine;

`(xii) Saiga;

`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

`(xv) SLG 95;

`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

`(xvii) Steyr AUG;

`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

`(xix) Tavor;

`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Calico M-110;

`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;

`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

`(iii) Striker 12; or

`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

(b) RELATED DEFINITIONS- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) BARREL SHROUD- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.

`(37) CONVERSION KIT- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

`(38) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.

`(39) FIXED MAGAZINE- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.

`(40) FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.

`(41) FORWARD GRIP- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.

`(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) THREADED BARREL- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.
To summarize, this effectively bans, to quote from a NRA publication:
Bans every gun made to comply with the Clinton ban. The Clinton ban dictated the kinds of grips, stocks and attachments new guns can have. Manufacturers and gun owners complied and new guns conform to the Clinton requirements. H.R. 2038 bans the new guns too.


Bans guns exempted by name or type under the Clinton ban. Commonplace Ruger Mini-14s, Mini-30s, Ranch Rifles, .30 Caliber Carbines, and fixed-magazine semi-automatic center-fire rifles.


Bans all semi-automatic shotguns. Bans Remington, Winchester, Beretta, Benelli, and other shotguns commonly used for hunting, trap, skeet, sporting clays, and self-defense. Bans them by banning their main component, called the "receiver" (Sec. 2(a)(30)(J)), and bans them because they have "any characteristic that can function as a grip"(Sec. 2(H)(ii) and (b)(42)). Any characteristic.


Bans all detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles because they have "any characteristic that can function as a grip." (Sec. 2(a)(30)(D)(iii) and (iv), and (b)(41) and (42)). Any characteristic.


Bans target shooting rifles. Bans the three centerfire rifles most popular for marksmanship competitions: the Colt AR-15, the Springfield M1A and the M1 "Garand."


Bans guns for self-defense. Bans any semi-automatic shotgun or rifle an Attorney General one day claims isn't "sporting," even though the U.S. Constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use guns for defense.


Bans 65 named guns (the Clinton law bans 19); Bans semi-auto fixed-magazine pistols of over 10 rounds capacity; Bans frames, receivers, and parts used to repair or refurbish guns; Bans importation of magazines exempted by the Clinton ban; Bans selling a legally-owned "assault weapon" with a magazine of over 10 rounds capacity.
This, frankly, in my opinion, is a load of horse crap. This effectively bans all WW2 military designed firearms commonly used in professional target shooting, bans shotguns (such as the Remington 1100) that are possibly the most popular sporting arms in existence, any firearm that has a 'mean' look to it, yet is no different internally or in general performance from many non-banned weapons (Namely the AR-15 and AR-10 semi-automatic rifles, commonly used for varmint and big game hunting and professional target shooting, and definitely not a military weapon).

Comments? What do you think of this? (BTW, to keep from instigating a flame fest, I am going to refrain from replying to this thread in response to an argument or continuing a debate).
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Well, considering that the current House leadership has already promised to not pass an extension of the Assault Weapons Ban, I would find it rather unlikely that a measure proposing even more severe restrictions would go anywhere in the House. So this is grandstanding by House Democrats to win cheap political points when it's shot down.
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Post by Joe »

Another great reason to not vote for Bush?
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Post by Nathan F »

Durran Korr wrote:Another great reason to not vote for Bush?
0_o I am confused...
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Post by HemlockGrey »

Didn't Bush say that he would sign any extension of the Assault Weapons Ban that landed on his desk?
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Post by Joe »

Nathan F wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Another great reason to not vote for Bush?
0_o I am confused...
Bush wants to pass this shit.
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Post by Nathan F »

Durran Korr wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Another great reason to not vote for Bush?
0_o I am confused...
Bush wants to pass this shit.
As far as I know, Bush's administration has said support for the current laws and has suggested that the President would sign an extenstion, but surely he wouldn't do THIS.
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Post by kojikun »

Does this mean I can't buy an antiaircraft gun?? :(
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Post by Nathan F »

kojikun wrote:Does this mean I can't buy an antiaircraft gun?? :(
Nope, this knocks me out of buying that old Flak88, too, lol.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Actually you probably can buy a Flak 18. However having a working anti aircraft gun is another story.
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Post by nechronius »

It's called socialism. Most countries in the world have an unarmed citizenry that believes it suffers from less crime because there are no guns within its border (correction, no guns in the hands of its lawful citizens). Thus any objection to legislation diminishing the individual US citizen's right to keep firearms is viewed as antagonistic warmongering by gun nuts who want to keep weapons so that they can massacre innocent children.

People have gotten too accepting of the idea that the "kind and benevolent system" will provide for everything they need including self protection when Time and again the system has stated and demonstrated that it has no obligation to protect the individual, only to pick up the broken pieces after the fact. Too easily are people willing to blame an inanimate object for their own ignorance, stupidity, or blatant disregard for common sense.

In the eyes of other nations we are the very evil we claim to seek out and destroy. Our country is either headed by immoral and unfaithful liars or by draft dodging rich daddies boys using any excuse to attack and depose "harmless" dictators. It's easy to pigeonhole all of us because we don't pay a 50% tax on the products we buy so that the government can take care of our every need, whether it's a required need or a perceived one.

If you are afraid of everyone else owning a gun all around you, why don't you try one out yourself. If you fear that you may do something irrational because you suddenly have a weapon in your hand you have much deeper mental issues that require serious help.

So everyone do yourself a favor.

Learn CPR/basic first aid so that you may save a life one day.
Learn to swim in case you find yourself in unfamiliar or unexpected circumstances.
Learn to drive a manual transmission so that you will never need to depend on another for your own mobility.
Learn to operate and secure a firearm for your protection and for the protection of others.
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Post by kojikun »

nechronius wrote:Learn CPR/basic first aid so that you may save a life one day.
I had to learn CPR in order to be allowed to graduate from highschool when that time comes.
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Post by nechronius »

kojikun wrote:I had to learn CPR in order to be allowed to graduate from highschool when that time comes.
1 out of 4. It's a good first start. Rather odd that it's a high school level requirement.
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Post by kojikun »

nechronius wrote:1 out of 4. It's a good first start. Rather odd that it's a high school level requirement.
Yeah, but it's a good thing they had us learn. Now if only I could remember not to slam the babies on the back less..
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Post by Dark Hellion »

I am usually not to much of a fire arms protection advocate but that bill goes a little too far. I own guns that could be banned and nothing i have could even be considered useful for killing allie cats, let alone be a dangerous weapon in the hands of a criminal. People should think less about the politics and more about the actual sensibility of an action. Alas, people is dumb.
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Post by Setzer »

Dammit, this is rediculous. I agree the average civilian doesn't need an assault rifle firing armor piercing bullets, but quite a few guns are simply prudent defensive weapons.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Setzer wrote:Dammit, this is rediculous. I agree the average civilian doesn't need an assault rifle firing armor piercing bullets.
Er.. your hunting rifle fires armor piercing rounds.....270 Winchester
can punch through most body armor made
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Post by LadyTevar »

MKSheppard wrote:
Setzer wrote:Dammit, this is rediculous. I agree the average civilian doesn't need an assault rifle firing armor piercing bullets.
Er.. your hunting rifle fires armor piercing rounds.....270 Winchester
can punch through most body armor made
I think my Dad's M1(a1?) Garand is still in my mom's house... I'd hate to see her get in trouble over it. :evil:
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Post by Rubberanvil »

MKSheppard wrote:270 Winchester
can punch through most body armor made
Well almost every rifle caliber larger than the .223 (5.56mm) can defeat light to medium body armor rather easily. IIRC it wasn't until very recently body armor is even able to stop any rifle shots larger than a .22 LR.
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Post by Death from the Sea »

MKSheppard wrote:
Setzer wrote:Dammit, this is rediculous. I agree the average civilian doesn't need an assault rifle firing armor piercing bullets.
Er.. your hunting rifle fires armor piercing rounds.....270 Winchester
can punch through most body armor made
I think Setzer was talking about vehicle armor, anything above a 9mm handgun can defeat most body armor made. And also I think Setzer was refering to AP ammo not just normal lead slugs.
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Post by RogueIce »

Ok... I'm not a gun expert, and I can see what's banned (dammit, I wanted an AR-15 too, just because the damn thing looks cool!), but what isn't banned? What's left that you can have (that's worth anything)?

I mean, I saw shotguns banned?!
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

You know, if we banned all forms of semi automatic rifles and locked everything else in full auto that would probably cut down on gun deaths more then this since your average standing criminal wont be able to control there weapon.

Witness the inability of the West Hollywood robbers to kill anyway despite firing hundreds of rounds. Those guys where killed using civilian assault rifles the police borrowed from a local gunshop BTW. If this law had been in effect those wouldn't have been available and its very likely at least one of the two would have gotten away.
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Post by FaxModem1 »

My family owns a shotgun(were Texans, you expected different?), so does this mean that a policeman is going to come to our house and seize our gun? Or are we just supposed to turn it in and think that we'll be safe with nothing to protect us?
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Post by RogueIce »

and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event
Wait a minute... It can't be suitable for sporting purposes because it's suitable for use in a sporting event? :wtf:

Someone please explain that one to me...
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Post by Sriad »

RogueIce wrote:
and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event
Wait a minute... It can't be suitable for sporting purposes because it's suitable for use in a sporting event? :wtf:

Someone please explain that one to me...
I think that's hippie-lawyer-speak for "anything not covered by the above." But I'm not exactly fluent in hippy-lawyerese.
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