Ho boy...

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

http://www.lutherthemovie.com/#

They missed the part about the raging anti-Semitism.

[Traceroute]

that hurts

considering he really wasn't that great a guy, he just started the protestant movement ...

[kojikun]

The man was the protonazi and theyre making a MOVIE about him like hes some HERO? The protestants are the ones who spawned fundies by saying "you can interpret god how YOU want" instead of "just listen to what the church says, even if its that jews and queers are nice people, ok? GOOD.".

ugh

[Enforcer Talen]

luther is one of my least favorite people in history.

All our experience with history should teach us, when we look
back, how badly human wisdom is betrayed when it relies on itself."
[Martin Luther (1483-1546), German Protestant leader]
-------

"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth
revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon....This
fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred
scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand
still, and not the earth."
[Martin Luther in one of his "Table Talks" in 1539]
-------

"People give ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove
to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament,
the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise
some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best.
This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy."
[Martin Luther, Works, Volume 22, c. 1543]
-------

"Their synagogues ... should be set on fire."

"Their homes should be broken down and destroyed.
They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable,
like Gypsies, in order that they may realize that
they ... are ... but miserable captives."

"They should be deprived of their prayerbooks and Talmuds."

"Their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death
to teach any more."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Die verfluchte Huhre, Vernunft."
(The damned whore, Reason).
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we Christians do now with this depraved and damned people
of the Jews? ... I will give my faithful advice: First, that one should set
fire to their synagogues. . . . Then that one should also break down and
destroy their houses. . . . That one should drive them out the country."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid
of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against
the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Jews are the most miserable people on earth. They are plagued
everywhere, and scattered about all countries, having no certain
resting place. They sit as on a wheelbarrow, without a country, people
or government... but they are rightly served, for seeing they refused
have Christ and his gospel, instead of freedom they must have servitude."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Either God must be unjust, or you, Jews, wicked and ungodly. You have
been, about fifteen hundred years, a race rejected of God."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more
understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts,
and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still,
keep house, and bear and bring up children."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk]
-------

"God created Adam master and lord of living creatures, but Eve spoilt
all, when she persuaded him to set himself above God's will. 'Tis you
women, with your tricks and artifices, that lead men into error."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is
a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore
eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed,
she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and
she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be
banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets."
[Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148]
-------

"There is on earth among all dangers no more dangerous thing than a richly
endowed and adroit reason...Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed."
[Martin Luther, quoted by Walter Kaufmann, _The Faith
of a Heretic_, (Garden city, NY, doubleday, 1963), p. 75]
-------

"n a like manner we must endure the authority of the prince. If he
misuse or abuse his authority, we are not to entertain a grudge, seek
revenge or punishment. Obedience is to be rendered for God's sake, for
the ruler is God's representative. However they may tax or exact, we
must obey and endure patiently."
[Martin Luther, "Tribute to Caesar" sermon, from _The Political Theories
of Martin Luther_, Luther Hess Waring (New York, Putnam's, 1910) p. 104]
-------

"Even though they grow weary and wear themselves out with child-
bearing, it does not matter; let them go on bearing children
till they die, that is what they are there for."
[Martin Luther, Works 20.84]
-------

"The word and works of God is quite clear, that
women were made either to be wives or prostitutes."
[Martin Luther, Works 12.94]
-------

"I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them.
But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to
lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this
little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous
activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against
them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews
into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is
the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task,
not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7].
Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they
declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of
vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's
children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil."
It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the
devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools..."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"...their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind
Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man
leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You
cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine
commandments..."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they
have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer
self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men
are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel
and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from
us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day,
together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and
robbers, in the most impenitent security."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they
lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can
easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example
of God's wrath."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be
obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have
used for inventing their lies-- that is, longer than two thousand years."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"..Christ and his word can hardly be recognized because of the great
vermin of human ordinances. However, let this suffice for the time
being on their lies against doctrine or faith."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious
jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?"
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits
anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness,
envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I
should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath
inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so
monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have
their reward for constantly giving God the lie."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard,
God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to
make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but
little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!"
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Over and above that we let them get rich on our sweat and blood,
while we remain poor and they such the marrow from our bones.
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule--
if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we
all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become
guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the
curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the
person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all
authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or
communion with us.... With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to
cleanse and exonerate my conscience."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But
whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his
own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering,
cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their
devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving
them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts..."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not
to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most
serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews,
that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier,
is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able
toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some
hellfire...
Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings,
also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and
that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give
thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing.
For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it..."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities,
or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid
them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They
will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in
secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our knowledge
of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not
secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not
share in their guilt, we have to part company with them.
They must be driven from our country."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"...they remain our daily murderers and bloodthirsty foes in their hearts.
Their prayers and curses furnish evidence of that, as do the many stories
which relate their torturing of children and all sorts of crimes for
which they have often been burned at the stake or banished."
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"...that everyone would gladly be rid of them."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"Undoubtedly they do more and viler things than
those which we know and discover."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"If I had power over the Jews, as our princes and cities
have, I would deal severely with their lying mouth."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"They [rulers] must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in
proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow.
Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their
synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and
deal harshly with them, as Moses did...
If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to
become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the
blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying,
and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that
they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert
them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge
of him, which is eternal life. Amen."
[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]
-------

"God does not work salvation for ficticious sinners. Be a sinner and
sin vigorously.... Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the
abiding place of justice; sin must be committed."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ], even though you commit
adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders."
[Martin Luther, letter to Melanchton, Aug. 1, 1521]
-------

"A large number of deaf, crippled and blind people are afflicted
solely through the malice of the demon. And one must in no wise
doubt that plagues, fevers and every sort of evil come from him."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"An eartly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons.
Some must be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"As for the demented, I hold it certain that all beings
deprived of reason are thus afflicted only by the Devil."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"As to the common people, ... one has to be hard with them and see that they
do their work and that under the threat of the sword and the law they comply
with the observance of piety, just as you chain up wild beasts."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"At Poltersberg, there is a lake similarly cursed. If you throw a stone into
it, a dreadful storm immediately arises, and the whole neighboring district
quakes to its centre. 'Tis the devils kept prisoner there."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"How often have not the demons called 'Nix,' drawn women and girls into
the water, and there had commerce with them, with fearful consequences."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"I myself saw and touched at Dessay, a child of this sort, which had
no human parents, but had proceeded from the Devil. He was twelve
years old, and, in outward form, exactly resembled ordinary children."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"I should have no compassion on these witches; I should burn them all."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Idiots, the lame, the blind, the dumb, are men in whom the devils have
established themselves: and all the physicians who heal these infirmities,
as though they proceeded from natural causes, are ignorant blockheads...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"In many countries there are particular places to which devils more
especially resort. In Prussia there is an infinite number of evil spirits."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"In Switzerland, on a high mountain, not far from Lucerne, there is a
lake they call Pilate's Pond, which the Devil has fixed upon as one of
the chief residences of his evil spirits...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Many demons are in woods, in waters, in wildernesses,
and in dark poolly places ready to hurt...people."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Many sweat to reconcile St. Paul and St. James, but in vain. 'Faith justifies'
and 'faith does not justify' contradict each other flatly. If any one can
harmonize them I will give him my doctor's hood and let him call me a fool."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"No gown worse becomes a woman than the desire to be wise."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Our bodies are always exposed to Satan. The maladies
I suffer are not natural, but Devil's spells."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Snakes and monkeys are subjected to the demon more than
other animals. Satan lives in them and possesses them.
He uses them to deceive men and to injure them."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"Some [demons] are also in the thick black clouds, which cause hail,
lightning and thunder, and poison the air, the pastures and grounds."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The best way to get rid of the Devil, if you cannot kill it with the
words of Holy Scripture, is to rail at and mock him. Music, too, is
very good; music is hateful to him, and drives him far away. "
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to
deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real
flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape
of a woman. Tis the same with women, who may think that a man is in bed
with them, yet 'tis only the Devil; and...the result of this connection
is oftentimes an imp of darkness, half mortal, half devil...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Devil...clutched hold of the miserable young man...and flew off with him
through the ceiling, since which time nothing has been heard of [him]."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Devil, too, sometimes steals human children; it is not infrequent
for him to carry away infants within the first six weeks after birth,
and to substitute in their place imps...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The winds are nothing else but good or bad spirits.
Hark! how the Devil is puffing and blowing...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"There is no rustic so rude but that, if he dreams or fancies anything, it
must be the whisper of the Holy Ghost, and he himself a prophet."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"To be a Christian, you must "pluck out the eye of reason."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
[Martin Luther, "On the Jews and Their Lies"]
-------

"We know, on the authority of Moses, that longer
than six thousand years the world did not exist."
[Martin Luther (1483-1546) "Lectures on Genesis"]
-------

"We need not invite the Devil to our table; he is too ready to come
without being asked. The air all about us is filled with demons...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...I advise that all their prayer
books and Talmudic writings...are to be taken from them."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...I advise that safe-conduct on the
highways be abolished completely for the Jews."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we do with...the Jews? I advise that their rabbis
be forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their synagogues or
schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that
no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...their homes
also should be razed and destroyed."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"When I was a child there were many witches, and they
bewitched both cattle and men, especially children."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"At Sussen, the Devil carried off, last Good Friday,
three grooms who had devoted themselves to him."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"I almost feel like throwing Jimmy into the
stove, as the priest in Kulenberg did."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"I maintain that some Jew wrote it [the Book of James] who probably
heard about Christian people but never encountered any."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Devil fears the word of God, He
can't bite it; it breaks his teeth."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The Devil, it is true, is not exactly a doctor who has taken degrees,
but he is very learned, very expert for all that. He has not been
carrying on his business during thousands of years for nothing...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"The fact that [the biblical book] Hebrews is not an epistle of St. Paul,
or of any other apostle, is proved by what it says in chapter two...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"...two devils rose from the water, and flew off through the air, crying,
'Oh, oh, oh!' and turning one over another, in sportive mockery...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"We may well lie with what seems to be a woman of flesh and blood,
and yet all the time it is only a devil in the shape of a woman."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"We should throw the Epistle of James out of this
school [the University of Wittenberg]...."
[Martin Luther]
-------

"In our sad condition, our only consolation is the expectancy
of another life. Here below all is incomprehensible."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk]
-------

"Heretics are not to be disputed with, but to be condemned unheard,
and whilst they perish by fire, the faithful ought to pursue the
evil to its source, and bathe their heads in the blood of the
Catholic bishops, and of the Pope, who is the devil in disguise."
[Martin Luther, Riffel, Kirchengeschichte]
-------

"I confess that mankind has a free will, but it is to
milk kine, to build houses, etc., and no further."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk]
-------

"Jews and papists are ungodly wretches; they are
two stockings made of one piece of cloth."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk]
-------

"Antichrist is the pope and the Turk [Muslim] together. A
beast full of life must have a body and soul. The spirit
or soul of Antichrist is the pope, his flesh or body the Turk."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk]
-------

"When my heart is cold and I cannot pray as I should I scourge myself with
the thought of the impiety and ingratitude of my enemies, the Pope and his
accomplices and vermin, and Zwingli, so that my heart swells with the
righteous indignation and hatred and I can say with warmth and vehemence:
'Holy be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done!' And the hotter
I grow the more ardent do my prayers become."
[Martin Luther, Table Talk Number 2387 a-b, as quoted
in Frans Funck-Bretano, _Luther_, 1939, p.319]
-------

"Whoever would like to cherish such adders and puny devils -- who are the
worst enemies of Christ and us all all -- to befriend them and to do them
honour simply in order to be cheated, plundered, robbed, disgraced, and
forced to howl and curse and suffer every kind of evil, to him I would
commend the Jews. And if this is not enough, let him tell the Jews to
use his mouth as a privy, or else crawl into the Jew's hind parts, and
there worship the holy thing, so as afterwards to be able to boast of
having been merciful, and of having helped the Devil and his progeny
to blaspheme our dear Lord."
[Martin Luther, "Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" by
Peter F. Weiner (1985, Gustav Broukal Press)]
-------

"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of
the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with
the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham'."
[Martin Luther, "Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" by
Peter F. Weiner (1985, Gustav Broukal Press)]
-------

[kojikun]

AIEIAIIEEEEEE!! Evil double post!!!

btw, that man was a psychotic bastard. The people who made this move should be publicly flogged.

[StarshipTitanic]

This should be topped in SLAM just for that huge list.

[Rye]

Well, i certainly hate mr luther now, ty talen.

So..martin luther king, why did he take his name from that evil fundie?

[Stravo]

Double Post taken care of and after reading that list I can see why the Pope dispatched hit squads to try and kill him. (No that is NOT a joke)

[Alyrium Denryle]

The worst thing to ever come out of Germany...Hell even Hitler had his good points(I dont know what they are...but I will find them)

[Glocksman]

Double Post taken care of and after reading that list I can see why the Pope dispatched hit squads to try and kill him. (No that is NOT a joke)

The pope dispatched hit squads to kill Luther because Luther was a threat to the Church's power. From condemning the sale of indulgences to translating the Bible into the common language, he was a direct threat to the Pope's power.

In other words, the Roman church was no more 'holy' then than it is today.

Luther may have been a rabid antisemite, but don't forget that the Protestant Reformation led to the opening up of Western thought and helped end the dark ages.

Prior to then, the Roman Church ruled with a heavy hand and actively supressed dissent and learning.

[neoolong]

Damn. I'm disappointed in Alfred Molina for being in that movie.

[Baron Mordo]

Hell even Hitler had his good points(I dont know what they are...but I will find them)

He loved his mother.

[Darth Servo]

Luther may have been a rabid antisemite, but don't forget that the Protestant Reformation led to the opening up of Western thought and helped end the dark ages.

Prior to then, the Roman Church ruled with a heavy hand and actively supressed dissent and learning.

Yes, Luther may have been nuts and a butthole, but whithout him, we could easily have all been forced to be Catholics. OTOH, someone else could have started the reformation as well. Once the printing press came to Europe, change was inevitable.

[kojikun]

Yes, Luther may have been nuts and a butthole, but whithout him, we could easily have all been forced to be Catholics. OTOH, someone else could have started the reformation as well. Once the printing press came to Europe, change was inevitable.

Luther created a sect that wanted to force everyone to be Protestant.

[Darth Servo]

Luther created a sect that wanted to force everyone to be Protestant.

True, but they still had to compete (or rather fight ) with the Catholics. People now had a choice of oppressive religious theocracies.

[Traceroute]

OTOH, someone else could have started the reformation as well. Once the printing press came to Europe, change was inevitable.

Just like Hitler, Luther was in the right place at the right time. Dammit, where are the hippies when you need them!!

[Xenophobe3691]

DAMN, that's some damning shit. Speaking as a Jew, I am horrified. Speaking as a human, I say we dig up his remains and bury them in the Vatican

[Andrew J.]

A lot of other early Protestant leaders were assholes, too. Calvin believed in predestination, which meant God decided beforehand whether or not you were going to hell, and Henry VIII basically wanted to have as many wives as he wanted and be the head of his own church.

[Kitsune]

They never taught us this stuff in Lutheran Confirmation
I wonder why

[Xenophobe3691]

They never taught us this stuff in Lutheran Confirmation
I wonder why

Could be worse, in Hebrew School, the only aspect of Judaism they fail to instill in you is the fact that the entire world feels an ambivalence leaning to hatred for you. Surprising how many fellow Marchers were surprised by this fact...

[kojikun]

A lot of other early Protestant leaders were assholes, too. Calvin believed in predestination, which meant God decided beforehand whether or not you were going to hell, and Henry VIII basically wanted to have as many wives as he wanted and be the head of his own church.

So Calvin said you could sin all you want, and Henry was a smart bastard. Cool, man, cool.

[Traceroute]

So Calvin said you could sin all you want, and Henry was a smart bastard. Cool, man, cool.

That's what always pissed me off about Calvinism. You were predestined to go to Heaven or Hell, no matter what, but you always had to act like you were going to heaven. If it's already decided, what's the point?

[HemlockGrey]

Ugh. Early Protestants. Spray them, please.

[StarshipTitanic]

Luther may have been a rabid antisemite, but don't forget that the Protestant Reformation led to the opening up of Western thought and helped end the dark ages.

Prior to then, the Roman Church ruled with a heavy hand and actively supressed dissent and learning.

Yes, Luther may have been nuts and a butthole, but whithout him, we could easily have all been forced to be Catholics. OTOH, someone else could have started the reformation as well. Once the printing press came to Europe, change was inevitable.

The Reformation had several false starts. The Hussites, Cathars. A lot of people were starting to get fed up with the Pope around that time. Luther worked because he got the support of Imperial princes.

[StarshipTitanic]

Ugh. Early Protestants. Spray them, please.

You haven't met my neighbors.