Hey everyone,
According to various posts, a Jedi can be "dark" without being a Sith lord. Of course, I have no problem believing this because the SW universe is not as black and white as GL would have us believe. The Jedi order has a certain "churchy" aura surrounding it and naturally there will be members who buck the establishment.
Does anyone have detailed information, or know where to get it, regarding these dark Jedi? The Jedi who do not belong to the Jedi order, but who also do not live on the dark side.
I'b be grateful for any material. I'd like to think that if I could develop my force abilities, I would never seek membership in Yoda's organization, and nor would I have the dark side take over my essence.
Dark Jedi vs. Sith Lords?
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Slowhand
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Dark Jedi vs. Sith Lords?
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DPDarkPrimus
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Re: Dark Jedi vs. Sith Lords?
Of course. Lucas is wrong.Slowhand wrote: According to various posts, a Jedi can be "dark" without being a Sith lord. Of course, I have no problem believing this because the SW universe is not as black and white as GL would have us believe.
On topic, Sith Lords would obviously be more powerful than a normal Jedi. They didn't just go out and buy the title "Lord", after all.
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Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
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Uh, A Dark Jedi is still a bad guy even if he isn't a Sith.According to various posts, a Jedi can be "dark" without being a Sith lord. Of course, I have no problem believing this because the SW universe is not as black and white as GL would have us believe.
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Dark Jedi are not Sith...especially given that the Sith are literally an organization along the same lines as the Jedi are. A Dark Jedi can become a Sith but being a Dark Side user does not make one a Sith.
On the thought of people who live on the fringe are a few Jedis...Aurra Sing(who borders on Dark Jedi), the Dark Lady(Aurra' mentor)...a couple others scattered throughout the EU.
On the thought of people who live on the fringe are a few Jedis...Aurra Sing(who borders on Dark Jedi), the Dark Lady(Aurra' mentor)...a couple others scattered throughout the EU.
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Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
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nightmare
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Summary:
Force sensitive = gifted but untrained Force user. Trained Force users are sometimes also called Force sensitives to confuse the matter.
Force user = any user of the Force in any form. Jedi, Dark Jedi, Sith, Dathomir Witch, Nightsister, White Current master, Aing-tii monk etc. EDIT - from our perspective, not their own of course.
Dark Jedi = former Jedi or student of the Jedi arts and philosophy now using the Dark Side of the Force.
Sith = Old definition, any member of the Sith empire. New definition, any Force user trained in the Sith arts and philosophy, which automatically makes it a Sith Lord, since there are no other Sith in the era after Darth Bane. A Dark Jedi may also be a Sith.
Sith Lord aka Dark Lord of the Sith = One of the leaders of the Sith. Master of the Sith arts. Several in existance simultaneously during the time of the Sith Empire, only two after Darth Bane's era.
Darth = honourary title for Sith Lord. Means Dark, implies the title holder's allegiance with the Dark Side and mastery thereof. EDIT - in use after Darth Bane's era.
Shadow Jedi = fan made label for those who walk the thin line between the Light and the Dark and has crossed it one or more times. Best described as a rouge Jedi or Dark Jedi without ties to either the Jedi or Sith order, but often misinterpreted as a Force user who can use both the Light and the Dark side of the Force. Examples, Aurra Sing, Mara Jade.
Edit - the term Shadow Jedi possibly comes from the Jedi Shadows, a group of Old Republic Jedi Knights tasked specifically with studying Dark Side users and infiltrating Sith territory.
Force sensitive = gifted but untrained Force user. Trained Force users are sometimes also called Force sensitives to confuse the matter.
Force user = any user of the Force in any form. Jedi, Dark Jedi, Sith, Dathomir Witch, Nightsister, White Current master, Aing-tii monk etc. EDIT - from our perspective, not their own of course.
Dark Jedi = former Jedi or student of the Jedi arts and philosophy now using the Dark Side of the Force.
Sith = Old definition, any member of the Sith empire. New definition, any Force user trained in the Sith arts and philosophy, which automatically makes it a Sith Lord, since there are no other Sith in the era after Darth Bane. A Dark Jedi may also be a Sith.
Sith Lord aka Dark Lord of the Sith = One of the leaders of the Sith. Master of the Sith arts. Several in existance simultaneously during the time of the Sith Empire, only two after Darth Bane's era.
Darth = honourary title for Sith Lord. Means Dark, implies the title holder's allegiance with the Dark Side and mastery thereof. EDIT - in use after Darth Bane's era.
Shadow Jedi = fan made label for those who walk the thin line between the Light and the Dark and has crossed it one or more times. Best described as a rouge Jedi or Dark Jedi without ties to either the Jedi or Sith order, but often misinterpreted as a Force user who can use both the Light and the Dark side of the Force. Examples, Aurra Sing, Mara Jade.
Edit - the term Shadow Jedi possibly comes from the Jedi Shadows, a group of Old Republic Jedi Knights tasked specifically with studying Dark Side users and infiltrating Sith territory.
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Illuminatus Primus
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A Dark Jedi is Jedi Padawan, Knight, or Master who fell to the Dark Side.
However, sometimes generic Dark Siders are called Dark Jedi, though this is to be considered a secondary definition and informal. Also not to be confused with the Emperor's Dark Jedi, a cabal of Force-infused Dark Siders that were extensions of the clone Emperor's will.
A Force Sensitive is any sentient individual who can sense and manipulate the Force.
The Sith were originally a Homo sapiens subspecies. Their primitive interstellar organization developed in the galactic backwaters, perhaps the Unknown Regions of the early Republic.
They were conquered by Schismatic Dark Jedi who fled their defeat at the hands of the loyal members of the Order.
Sith Acolytes were the manipulators and schemers of the Sith ranks. They were Force-sensitive.
Sith Warriors were the life-long-trained Dark Side "knights" if you will in the Sith heirarchy.
Sith Lords were Acolytes who climbed to the top politically or Warriors who won prestige and ascended through bloody victory into the aristocracy. Each of them had holdings and loyal troops within the Empire. They often fought amongst each other.
The Dark Lord of the Sith was elected from the Sith Lords by the Sith Lords as the supreme soveriegn over the Sith Empire. His demise was often met by civil war by his highest lieutenants or proteges.
After the fall of the Sith Empire, the term Sith became a Dark Sider who followed the philosophies, teachings, and legacy of the ancient Force using nobility of the Sith Empire.
After Bane's ascention, the term Sith Lord became a "graduation"-like honorific for a Sith Apprentice once they completed their training. Both Apprentice and Master were often Lords, as was with Sidious and Maul; Sidious and Tyranus; Sidious and Vader. It became the Master who was the senior member of the Order.
"Grey Jedi" is a semi-official term for a Jedi who toes the line.
Darth is a much trickier term.
It may be the name of an ancient Sith Lord or Schismatic Dark Jedi. Or perhaps its a Sith [language] word or title.
Either way, at the end of the Mandalorian Wars, which followed the destruction of Lord Exar Kun, Jedi Malak and Revan were converted to the Dark Side at Korriban. Taking from the Kun/Qel-Droma "Dark Lord/First Apprentice" model, Revan and Malak added the word "Darth" to their real names.
Darth Revan was the Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Malak was his first and foremost apprentice. There are lesser apprentices, but they were not permitted to take the name of Darth.
With Revan's death, Malak became Dark Lord, and took lesser apprentice Bandon as his first apprentice. Bandon assumed the name Darth before his own.
It seems later on, Bane (or whatever his name is) changed his name to Darth Bane in honor of Malak and Revan. When he took over the Order, he again fell back on the Master/Apprentice model from Revan/Malak and Kun/Qel-Droma, and took the Darth name before another assumed name (usually something Dark Side themed, like Maul, Tyranus, Bane, etc.; whereas Revan, Malak, and Bondan just added Darth before their real names). The difference was that Bane removed the lesser apprentices from the model, with just the Darth Master and Apprentice.
With only Lumiya left after Sidious and Vader's destruction, it appears she's formed a new Sith Order, seperate from Bane's, which ended with Sidious' final death at Onderon. There's no real rhyme or reason: Lumiya is an assumed name, and it is unknown if Flint is. In any case, Carnor Jax is unknown to have possessed an assumed name. None of them used the Darth name.
However, sometimes generic Dark Siders are called Dark Jedi, though this is to be considered a secondary definition and informal. Also not to be confused with the Emperor's Dark Jedi, a cabal of Force-infused Dark Siders that were extensions of the clone Emperor's will.
A Force Sensitive is any sentient individual who can sense and manipulate the Force.
The Sith were originally a Homo sapiens subspecies. Their primitive interstellar organization developed in the galactic backwaters, perhaps the Unknown Regions of the early Republic.
They were conquered by Schismatic Dark Jedi who fled their defeat at the hands of the loyal members of the Order.
Sith Acolytes were the manipulators and schemers of the Sith ranks. They were Force-sensitive.
Sith Warriors were the life-long-trained Dark Side "knights" if you will in the Sith heirarchy.
Sith Lords were Acolytes who climbed to the top politically or Warriors who won prestige and ascended through bloody victory into the aristocracy. Each of them had holdings and loyal troops within the Empire. They often fought amongst each other.
The Dark Lord of the Sith was elected from the Sith Lords by the Sith Lords as the supreme soveriegn over the Sith Empire. His demise was often met by civil war by his highest lieutenants or proteges.
After the fall of the Sith Empire, the term Sith became a Dark Sider who followed the philosophies, teachings, and legacy of the ancient Force using nobility of the Sith Empire.
After Bane's ascention, the term Sith Lord became a "graduation"-like honorific for a Sith Apprentice once they completed their training. Both Apprentice and Master were often Lords, as was with Sidious and Maul; Sidious and Tyranus; Sidious and Vader. It became the Master who was the senior member of the Order.
"Grey Jedi" is a semi-official term for a Jedi who toes the line.
Darth is a much trickier term.
It may be the name of an ancient Sith Lord or Schismatic Dark Jedi. Or perhaps its a Sith [language] word or title.
Either way, at the end of the Mandalorian Wars, which followed the destruction of Lord Exar Kun, Jedi Malak and Revan were converted to the Dark Side at Korriban. Taking from the Kun/Qel-Droma "Dark Lord/First Apprentice" model, Revan and Malak added the word "Darth" to their real names.
Darth Revan was the Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Malak was his first and foremost apprentice. There are lesser apprentices, but they were not permitted to take the name of Darth.
With Revan's death, Malak became Dark Lord, and took lesser apprentice Bandon as his first apprentice. Bandon assumed the name Darth before his own.
It seems later on, Bane (or whatever his name is) changed his name to Darth Bane in honor of Malak and Revan. When he took over the Order, he again fell back on the Master/Apprentice model from Revan/Malak and Kun/Qel-Droma, and took the Darth name before another assumed name (usually something Dark Side themed, like Maul, Tyranus, Bane, etc.; whereas Revan, Malak, and Bondan just added Darth before their real names). The difference was that Bane removed the lesser apprentices from the model, with just the Darth Master and Apprentice.
With only Lumiya left after Sidious and Vader's destruction, it appears she's formed a new Sith Order, seperate from Bane's, which ended with Sidious' final death at Onderon. There's no real rhyme or reason: Lumiya is an assumed name, and it is unknown if Flint is. In any case, Carnor Jax is unknown to have possessed an assumed name. None of them used the Darth name.
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Slowhand
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Thank-you, Illuminatus Primus.
I was aware of the ancient Sith species and that Darth Bane was the first to institute the rule of two.
Regarding the honorific DARTH: I always assumed, and I may have read this somewhere, that it was a combo word of Dark and Sith.
I would agree that:
A force user is anyone that can manipulate the force.
A Jedi (Padewan, Knight, or Master) belongs to the Jedi Order.
A dark Jedi could certainly be one that has embraced the dark side, but it could also be applied to one that was once just simply a member of the Order.
A Sith Lord or a Darth is a Jedi that fully embraces the dark side.
A shadow Jedi is a Jedi whose allegiances are ambiguous.
Does anyone know who trained Palpatine?
I was aware of the ancient Sith species and that Darth Bane was the first to institute the rule of two.
Regarding the honorific DARTH: I always assumed, and I may have read this somewhere, that it was a combo word of Dark and Sith.
I would agree that:
A force user is anyone that can manipulate the force.
A Jedi (Padewan, Knight, or Master) belongs to the Jedi Order.
A dark Jedi could certainly be one that has embraced the dark side, but it could also be applied to one that was once just simply a member of the Order.
A Sith Lord or a Darth is a Jedi that fully embraces the dark side.
A shadow Jedi is a Jedi whose allegiances are ambiguous.
Does anyone know who trained Palpatine?
Once it was known as the Codeine Hippo, but so as not to influence a legion of teenage fans, it was renamed the Cosmic Hippo. Most often seen flying through the depths of space, to catch one is to be near the Flecktones themselves.
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~Slowhand
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Illuminatus Primus
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The origin of "Darth" is purely fan speculation right now.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Any near cannon (novels, etc) names for the so called "Shadow Jedi"?nightmare wrote:Shadow Jedi = fan made label for those who walk the thin line between the Light and the Dark and has crossed it one or more times. Best described as a rouge Jedi or Dark Jedi without ties to either the Jedi or Sith order, but often misinterpreted as a Force user who can use both the Light and the Dark side of the Force. Examples, Aurra Sing, Mara Jade.
Edit - the term Shadow Jedi possibly comes from the Jedi Shadows, a group of Old Republic Jedi Knights tasked specifically with studying Dark Side users and infiltrating Sith territory.
Because I've never heard that term before.
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Illuminatus Primus
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Its fan made.
The semi-official label (JKII: Jedi Outcast, called Kyle this) is "Grey Jedi."
Very stupid, IMHO.
The semi-official label (JKII: Jedi Outcast, called Kyle this) is "Grey Jedi."
Very stupid, IMHO.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Yea, just makes them sound oldIlluminatus Primus wrote:Its fan made.
The semi-official label (JKII: Jedi Outcast, called Kyle this) is "Grey Jedi."
Very stupid, IMHO.
Shadow Jedi sounds better.
"I would, for instance, fellate a smurf before I pick death." Dylan Moran
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
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Darth Mall
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Illuminatus Primus
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I believe the Potentium Heresy's members all eventually fell to the Dark Side.Darth Mall wrote:also there are the potentium? jedi from zonoma sedkot who belive in neither light or dark, just like jacen in the NJO. maybe they are neutral jedi
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Darth Mall
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... but isn't the planet zonoma sedkot an embodyment of that jedi though. maybe the way of potentium brought it aboutDidn't Verge say that there is no light or dark though? and that what people call the Dark Side is just the raw energy of the force and that the light side was when it was used with restraint.Illuminatus Primus wrote:I believe the Potentium Heresy's members all eventually fell to the Dark Side.Darth Mall wrote:also there are the potentium? jedi from zonoma sedkot who belive in neither light or dark, just like jacen in the NJO. maybe they are neutral jedi
"I would, for instance, fellate a smurf before I pick death." Dylan Moran
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
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Illuminatus Primus
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Ok. "They became Dark Jedi assholes and killed people." Semantics make you happy?
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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No, I'm just wondering if thats right or just her view.
"I would, for instance, fellate a smurf before I pick death." Dylan Moran
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
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Darth Mall
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The dark side is like a kid holding a gun- they can use the power but they have no control or aim- what they do may seem bad but they have no control
a person with training will not go and shoot people (don't include criminals, you well know what the fuck I mean) because they know how it works and are careful. they don't use the gun to its full potential
a person with training will not go and shoot people (don't include criminals, you well know what the fuck I mean) because they know how it works and are careful. they don't use the gun to its full potential
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Illuminatus Primus
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Or they're Sith and are child soldiers trained to kill and maim.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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His Divine Shadow
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Where is this said?Illuminatus Primus wrote:I believe the Potentium Heresy's members all eventually fell to the Dark Side.Darth Mall wrote:also there are the potentium? jedi from zonoma sedkot who belive in neither light or dark, just like jacen in the NJO. maybe they are neutral jedi
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
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His Divine Shadow
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Also, the Potentium are not Vergere's views, the Potentium believes all is light and that any usage of the force is inherently positivie, Vergere do not subscribe to this, according to her the force is neigher light nor dark and people can still fall to the darkness if they do not understand their emotions, anger can controll people(pr they can choose to go dark willingly), so can despair and hatred and even love which can turn into obsessions, emotions that control you can lead you to the dark side of yourself, not the other way around.
And the way to understanding this is long, grueling and PAINFUL.
And the way to understanding this is long, grueling and PAINFUL.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
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In Starwars D20 they refer to non Jedi/Sith force users as Force Adepts (basicly no teachings ever of that Jedi or Sith) so yeah thought I pop that in.
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nightmare
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Tales of the Jedi Companion. WEG supplement.Dorsk 81 wrote:Any near cannon (novels, etc) names for the so called "Shadow Jedi"?nightmare wrote:Shadow Jedi = fan made label for those who walk the thin line between the Light and the Dark and has crossed it one or more times. Best described as a rouge Jedi or Dark Jedi without ties to either the Jedi or Sith order, but often misinterpreted as a Force user who can use both the Light and the Dark side of the Force. Examples, Aurra Sing, Mara Jade.
Edit - the term Shadow Jedi possibly comes from the Jedi Shadows, a group of Old Republic Jedi Knights tasked specifically with studying Dark Side users and infiltrating Sith territory.
Because I've never heard that term before.