Highlander Endgame

[Lord_Xerxes]

I just watched this movie again tonight after picking it up PVT (Previously Viewed Tape) at BlockBuster and thus completely my Highlander series (have the other 3 in a boxed set). I really liked this movie, and still do, but I can't help but point out the utter deus ex machina in it.

First thing I wanted to address/ask is what's the deal with Methos? I've only seen a select few episodes of the TV series, but why isn't he even a consideration for the prize/a reason why no one could win it? Because he refuses to fight? Does that somehow strip him of his power, because Duncan both in the series and in this movie still seems to regard him as an Immortal (going to him for advice because he's the "oldest living one of us"). How does this stop Kell from looking for him/wanting to kill him? If Kell did, would he get quickened from Methos?

As an aside, I find it ironic that if you tally up the kills that Jacob Kell gets before his death, he reaches exactly 666 kills.

Next thing I wanted to bring up is why Duncan and Conor seem absolute about adhereing to the rules? WTF, guys..the enemies aren't? They're attacking you on holy ground, they're ganging up on you...If Kell's too tough to beat alone, why the hell does one of you have to die? Fight fire with fire...gang up on him in return! (Of course, I mean this from a storyline wise perception...I think it seems rather obvious that the real reason the had to kill off Connor was because Adrian Paul is still young and could forseeably play the character/roll for other possible movies/another series, where as Christopher Lambert is definetly starting to show his age).

My next point: "This move, if done correctly, is unblockable." So what, did Connor purposely botch it after doing the setup and doing the whole "Good bye, Duncan" stuff...as if to imply that Duncan was going to die? Or did Duncan find some deus ex machina way to counter/block the 1337 move?

On that note, I love how Duncan tries the move on Kell, and Kell totally no-sells him by having an extra weapon. I think it would have been kewl if Duncan got him back in the setup again, and was sucessful for the kill...and not that "I will jump over you, and you will turn to look at me. Suddenly, I'm shown behind you, and I've killed you and kicked you over the landing!" WTF, was this D2? Did Kell lag, and Duncan Leap Attack back over him to kill him?

Speaking of utter jobbing, my next point...Why is it that the honorable villian dude, Jin Ka or whatever, was the only one who attempted to resist Kell? He reached for his sword, but then Kell jumped up and took him out. Those other n00bs just sat there.

This leads me into my final point. Why did Kell spare Kate? All movie long, he's playing the ultimate villian character. He has some moral high ground (although it's a bit blurry and shady if you ask me), he's leveled himself up real nice, and he's even got the ridiculously good dramatic fight dialogue/mind fuck going on. So why spare Kate? It seems out of character...I think it would have been better if Kell had tortured Duncan with the idea that inorder to defeat him, he'd have to kill Kate again (being that her essence was inside Kell). It just seemed like the utter deus ex machina ending. "Oh. I didn't die. He just cut my necklace and pretended I did." Utter cheese.

So please, throw in any comments, questions, or answers to my questions of your own.

[consequences]

Only going to answer a couple of things here:

Its been pretty well established that while Methos still has the Survivor's instinct, he no longer has the ruthless edge or aggression needed to compete in the big leagues. Despite his age, he fell behind, as while riding ith the Horsemen, any immortal kills would have been split between four, and they probably weren't encountering many more than one of them would have on his own. He has also spent an undetermined amount of time withdrawn from the game, as he was just too big a target. Kell may not even know of his existence, or care if he does(or did, now). For the effort needed to find one of the most elusive immortals on the planet, he could take out a dozen or more less careful Ancients.

The 666 thing amused me too.

Their problem is that they are excessively honorable in Duncan's case, and just don't have the will to win in Connor's. There are at least three different times I can recall in the series when someone blatantly broke the rules against Duncan.

I'd say that Connor definitely threw the fight, feeling that he wouldn't have the will to win against kell even if he could.

Jin ke was the only one whose will hadn't been broken by Kell, or didn't see their death as part of a greater destiny. It pisses me off that in both movies i've seen that guy in, he's died a crappy death (Blade 2 being the other movie).

If you get the DVD, there's an alternate version of the film, just minor changes for the most part, but they didn't bring Kate back at the end. They were probably under a fair amount of pressure to provide a more happy ending.(why I don't know, at last count, Duncan has at least three serious immortal girlfriends still alive, and one mortal).

[LadyTevar]

Only going to answer a couple of things here:

If you get the DVD, there's an alternate version of the film, just minor changes for the most part, but they didn't bring Kate back at the end. They were probably under a fair amount of pressure to provide a more happy ending.(why I don't know, at last count, Duncan has at least three serious immortal girlfriends still alive, and one mortal).

I'd wondered what he was talking about. In the movie release I saw, Kate died. No BS about cutting the necklace off, Jacob killed her, and Duncan knew/felt it through the Quickening the moment she died.

I've never even heard of that other ending... that would have ruined the story for sure. I'll have to be very careful what DVD I rent to show Nitram now, as he's not seen it.

Personally, the best part of the movie was in the end fight, where Duncan was shifting to Connor and back, dual voicing the famous "There Can Be Only One". Perfect way to end the fight, IMO. And having the movie end with Duncan mourning what could have been with Kate is by far the better ending than "Oh, he just took my necklace".

[Lord_Xerxes]

Only going to answer a couple of things here:

Its been pretty well established that while Methos still has the Survivor's instinct, he no longer has the ruthless edge or aggression needed to compete in the big leagues. Despite his age, he fell behind, as while riding ith the Horsemen, any immortal kills would have been split between four, and they probably weren't encountering many more than one of them would have on his own. He has also spent an undetermined amount of time withdrawn from the game, as he was just too big a target. Kell may not even know of his existence, or care if he does(or did, now). For the effort needed to find one of the most elusive immortals on the planet, he could take out a dozen or more less careful Ancients.

Ah, as I said I don't know much about Methos, because I've only seen parts of the series. It just seems a little shady that he seems to remain Immortal without having any troubles that the others have. I see your point about Kell not bothering to try and find him, when he can just pwn a couple of easier found jobbers...but what I don't get about it is wouldn't Kell have sensed him when he was leaving the graveyard with Duncan's watcher?

Their problem is that they are excessively honorable in Duncan's case, and just don't have the will to win in Connor's. There are at least three different times I can recall in the series when someone blatantly broke the rules against Duncan.

I knew Ducan was excessively honorable, and I figured with Connor the whole will to not live thing, but it just seems like a waste...I mean, times are tough. If Kell was the main reason of Connor's strife as he proclaimed, then wouldn't Ducan and Connor teaming up and fighting fire with fire to beat him rid Connor of that burden? No more could Kell kill off those he loved or cared for. Yeah, it might be hard for him to get over Rachel, but he managed to get over Heather (more or less).

Jin ke was the only one whose will hadn't been broken by Kell, or didn't see their death as part of a greater destiny. It pisses me off that in both movies i've seen that guy in, he's died a crappy death (Blade 2 being the other movie).

I thought it was a shitty death too. Especially after the wicked fight scene that he and Duncan had. It would have been better if Jin had actually had a chance to fight Kell and then die...

If you get the DVD, there's an alternate version of the film, just minor changes for the most part, but they didn't bring Kate back at the end. They were probably under a fair amount of pressure to provide a more happy ending.

I didn't know about the Alternate ending. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for the PVD version at Blockbuster. I definetly agree with you guys on how Kate's dying would be far better than her surving by deus ex machina.

(why I don't know, at last count, Duncan has at least three serious immortal girlfriends still alive, and one mortal).

Yeah, I thought about that too. Each time I've seen this movie, I found myself thinking about Amanda, and wondering where the hell she was. I think she was the best of Duncan's "girls".

[Darth Yoshi]

Amanda got her own series, so she's off doing her own thing somewhere. *shrugs*

[LadyTevar]

Amanda got her own series, so she's off doing her own thing somewhere. *shrugs*

I caught a glimpse of one of Amanda's recently... on SciFi Channel. She shot Wolf... who it seems is an Immortal. He's very pissed about it, because he's been around Amanda long enough not to want that life. If she hadn't shot him, he'd have died from a slow poison... somehow that kind of dead wouldn't have triggered whatever makes someone an Immortal.

Interesting concept, following Endgame's Kate. If Duncan hadn't killed Kate violently, she might never have become an Immortal......

[consequences]

And if she hadn't been such a bitch about it, thhey wouldn't have had a problem. Of course, if he'd been more intelligent about killing her, it would have gone better.

[LadyTevar]

And if she hadn't been such a bitch about it, thhey wouldn't have had a problem. Of course, if he'd been more intelligent about killing her, it would have gone better.

That's for damn certain. What kind idjit buries a dagger in his lover's chest on their Wedding Night?

Hello! There's better places for your dagger!