Trekkie Dishonesty

[Stark]

What's the biggest piece of BS you've ever heard from a Trekkie? Included are things they make up, things they exaggerate, things the deliberately misinterpret, and things they take from the unreliable tech manuals.

I'm a fan of the '600 ship fleet' and its assorted results, and the way they invent capabilities for ships (like how Nebulas - the cut-down galaxy's - have upwards of 10 P-torp launchers).

[Falcon]

That the Enterprise-D could use its photon torps to blast its way into the Death Star's reactor core...

[Guest]

probably the "The empire only has less than a thousand ships because Han Solo said so" Or the "The Falcon can only go 1.5c."

[Doomriser]

That's kids stuff. Regarding fleets, I once saw a Trekkie claim that the fleet assembled to retake DS9 in "Sacrifice of Angels" was just a minor taskforce in an unimportant backwater (DS9 and the Bajoran wormhole at the border of 3 major powers) and that the Feds really had 78,000 warp capable ships.

Just today, I saw good old E1701 claiming that a TOS Romulan Warbird has 180 GT firepower, that the Ent-nil took GT+ hits (in space) from a sound cannon, ah hell, I'll just point you to a thread:
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... 5224fa38fb
62fc14e&threadid=28095&perpage=25&highlight=connie&pagenumber=3

Though if its humour you're looking for, try page 2 and beyond of this thread
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... genumber=1

where Gothmog claims that ground forces are unnecessary because airpower can dominate everything.

Hell, once I had a Trekkie tell me that biplanes would be a serious problem for modern jet aircraft in response to a comparison of WWI aircraft vs modern jets being the same as Federation starships vs Imperial starships.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Try the Ultimate Starwars Vs. Startrek Database by Wayne Poe for real examples of Trek arguments. Wong undoubtedly links to it on his links page.

[Doomriser]

Here are some classic quotes from a classic Trek troll:

Not that I'm opposed to the notion that SW spans its galaxy. Ultimately, it would not affect these debates. The Empire or Republic might be *bigger* than the Federation, but they'd still be unwise to trespass on Federation Space. A beachball is bigger than a grenade...but I know which can go off with greater force.
-TOWNMNBS

And you know, when it arguably would only take a single Trek
style photon torpedo at max yield (or just fired at 0.8 C w/o arming the warhead at all) to vaporize any ship of the imperial navy, I am
disinclined to believe a Fed world would require all that much
protection against the empire to begin with. The fact remains, hyperdrive isn't usefull tactically against Trek ships *in* battle. Only for getting to and *possibly* from it.
-TOWNMNBS

They can track targets effectively even at warp. Of course they can do a 90 degree tyurn at massively sub-relativistic speeds. And nothing's been shown to prove they *can't* do it. And again, *if* it were an issue, the Fed ship would simply fire them straight down from above in
geo-synchronous orbit, well out of range of the DS's weaponery, and at a velocity far faster than their obviously manual gunners could ever hope to track, let alone target or shoot down.
-TOWNMNBS on photon torpedoes vs. the DS

The films and series. Have you ever watched them? Every single instance of something getting attached to the hull is *immediately*
recognized...in fact, the typically spot the attempt when, if not
before, contact is made with the shields. Come to that, half the time,
contect is *prevented* *BY* the shields...lucky for Solo SW shields
aren't capable of that.
-TOWNMNBS

Well let's see. While the SW ships can't spot a corellian freighter
penetrating its shields and clamping onto its back, a Fed ship would, in about 3 to 5 seconds on average, often less, ascertain a potential
threat vessel's *total* offensive and defensive potential. Right down to weapon power outputs, shield and hull strengths, systems status, crew compliment and origin, etc. While there's every reason to think SW sensors couldn't even penetrate shields, Trek sensors would spot the "ancient" hyperdrive tech present, and already be on to the astrophysics department to modify the lateral array to spot them in hyperspace, and to engineering to stand by to generate a grava-metric pulse to act as an interdictor well...that's assuming a standard tractor beam wouldn't do the trick, which one would expect it to. The Feds would know every move the imp ship was going to make as they were transfering power to make it. *That's* what advantage they'd have.
-TOWNMNBS

You know, the Romulans used to think their cloaking tech made them
utterly indetectable to Fed sensors...they were wrong in their
arrogance, too. Once the Feds realize their adversary is using
"ancient" hyperdrice tech, a sector-by-sector graviton web will be
erected to interdict hyperspatial travel into key areas. Over the space of perhaps a few months to at most a year, most of the Federation will be covered, just as they managed to do with their subspace listening posts to detect Romulan ships crossing over into their space. Then, of course, the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Ferengi, etc would all follow suit, and withing a grand total of perhaps 2 or 3 years the Alpha Quadrant would be basically inaccessable to SW ships. You see, *I* can speculate as readily as you can...except I am doing so legitimately.
-TOWNMNBS

[pointless insult snipped]

You should've *read* what I wrote above, rather than engaged in yet
another demonstration of how foolish your side becomes when you're
losing a debate. You know, that kind of behavior from SWersies, as much
as anything else, proves to me and most objective third-party observers
that Trek's supporters truly have the greatest case, and certainly the
most credability. We do not engage in sucr purile attacks. We don't need
to. We are right, have proven right, and can easily continue to prove we
are right. And you know, when you *really* are right, and not just
posturing for public appeal, you find that that *really* is enough. I'm
not kidding! You honestly don't *need* to "one-up" the other side's
speakers in word games or flame wars. And I for one am extremely proud
of that fact. Not only is Star Trek's technology superior, so are it's
internet debate supporters! Amazing, but demonstrably True.

In any case, this *will* be my last reply to Crystal Psyborg, unless the
next post I see from CP is more mature, and worhty of my attention. And
frankly, I couldn't possibly care less how snubbish or arrogant or
condescending that sounds. It's a fact, and a well-justified one at
that. Be civil, or be ignored. Your choice.

[Durandal]

I'm not going to go into detail, but feel free to check any of what Gothmog or E1701 have posted on SB.com.

[Stark]

This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Try the Ultimate Starwars Vs. Startrek Database by Wayne Poe for real examples of Trek arguments. Wong undoubtedly links to it on his links page.

*grin* I too visit Spacebattles for fun
This thread is intended to bring out all the stupid things Trekkies say... to argue with one, you've usually got to accept 95% of their stupidity just to address one point; I'm interested in everyone's pet peeves

I say: rant on!

[Pablo Sanchez]

Here are some classic quotes from a classic Trek troll:

*shivers*

Hey... interesting avatar. Where did you get that?

[Shadow]

Just today, I saw good old E1701 claiming that a TOS Romulan Warbird has 180 GT firepower, that the Ent-nil took GT+ hits (in space) from a sound cannon, ah hell, I'll just point you to a thread:
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... 5224fa38fb
62fc14e&threadid=28095&perpage=25&highlight=connie&pagenumber=3

What's wrong with that? It looks fine to me.

[Stark]

What's wrong with that? It looks fine to me.

Two words : SOUND CANNON. How does sound work?

[Shadow]

Two words : SOUND CANNON. How does sound work?

It could use a tractor beam to cause vibrations in the target.

[StarshipTitanic]

And tractor beams are related to sound...how?

[Stark]

Two words : SOUND CANNON. How does sound work?

It could use a tractor beam to cause vibrations in the target.

Through shields?

And then it would be a Tractor/Repulsor Cannon, not a sound cannon.

[Dead on Arrival]

In any case, this *will* be my last reply to Crystal Psyborg, unless the next post I see from CP is more mature, and worhty of my attention.

Heh, he was talking to me? Interesting, when the hell did this happen?

[Doomriser]

He was talking to CP in an _old_ ASVS thread. Put a TOWNMNBS-like sentence from the post into google groups search engine and you'll get the original post. I think it was something along the lines of "Really stupid ST question" or somesuch thing

[Dead on Arrival]

CP = me

[Guest]

What's wrong with that? It looks fine to me.

Two words : SOUND CANNON. How does sound work?

It works because it's Sci-fi....

[Shadow]

And tractor beams are related to sound...how?

Through shields?

And then it would be a Tractor/Repulsor Cannon, not a sound cannon.

A Borg tractor beam was able to pierce the Enterprise-D's shields in "Best of Both Worlds." It could be termed a sonic disruptor as it created sound within the hull of the Enterprise.

sound: Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

[Stark]

A Borg tractor beam was able to pierce the Enterprise-D's shields in "Best of Both Worlds." It could be termed a sonic disruptor as it created sound within the hull of the Enterprise.

The borg weapon had to match the shield, and the crew was shocked and and amazed - not like it was an ancient Romulan technique.
By that rationale ANY weapon is a sonic weapon because they go boom.

[Doomriser]

Here are some classic quotes from a classic Trek troll:

*shivers*

Hey... interesting avatar. Where did you get that?

I guess you weren't paying attention when I posted all those WWII links in ASVS...well OK it was months after you asked for them.

And this is OT anyway. If only there were an OT forum...

[Shadow]

The borg weapon had to match the shield, and the crew was shocked and and amazed - not like it was an ancient Romulan technique.

They were probably amazed at the rapid speed they found the right frequency. Matching the frequency just makes it possible to defeat shields with weapons to normally to weak to do so. The sonic disruptor was designed as weapon, and a planetary system, so it was powerful to pierce the shields without the correct frequency.

By that rationale ANY weapon is a sonic weapon because they go boom.

I don't think most weapons do not cause damage by causing vibrations in the target.

[Stark]

[quote="Shadow"]
They were probably amazed at the rapid speed they found the right frequency. Matching the frequency just makes it possible to defeat shields with weapons to normally to weak to do so. The sonic disruptor was designed as weapon, and a planetary system, so it was powerful to pierce the shields without the correct frequency.
[quote]

Geordis comments imply that the Borg weapon had to match the physical surface of the shield to pull/push it, not the frequency.

And it makes much more sense for it to be a planetary strike weapon; then it could use anything to create a shockwave within the atmosphere.

[Shadow]

Geordis comments imply that the Borg weapon had to match the physical surface of the shield to pull/push it, not the frequency.

The shields fail after the tractor beam is matched which would be more consistent with it matching the frequency.

[Stark]

The shields fail after the tractor beam is matched which would be more consistent with it matching the frequency.

No - in the episode the tractor beam constantly drains the shield, and they never say anything about a sudden increase in power. Its got them, they try to stop it, their shields fail, the Borg start slicing and dicing the saucer, they hit the tractor beam hard and break it.
The Borg weapon was very short ranged, like all tractor beams.

After checking, they don't say anything about it matching the shield in anyway. I must have been thinking about something else. Sorry.

Its a shame the old episode didn't show any visuals... it may have been a tractor beam, but tractor beam-based weapons are always referred to as such. They seemed to think it was related to disruptors (something like the rock-exploding phasers maybe? Good for planets) but I'm not sure why that would be super-effective against starship shields.

[Shadow]

No - in the episode the tractor beam constantly drains the shield, and they never say anything about a sudden increase in power. Its got them, they try to stop it, their shields fail, the Borg start slicing and dicing the saucer, they hit the tractor beam hard and break it.
The Borg weapon was very short ranged, like all tractor beams.

What sudden increase in power? They didn't break the tractor beam.

After checking, they don't say anything about it matching the shield in anyway. I must have been thinking about something else. Sorry.

=====================================================
Riker: Rotate shield frequencies.
=====================================================

Its a shame the old episode didn't show any visuals... it may have been a tractor beam, but tractor beam-based weapons are always referred to as such. They seemed to think it was related to disruptors (something like the rock-exploding phasers maybe? Good for planets) but I'm not sure why that would be super-effective against starship shields.

Why would it need to super-effective against shields? I don't see how a disruptor, as it is used in all other examples, would be related to sound.