The Republic of China's UN Bid fails for 11th straight year

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-09-18 06:29pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

I believe it was clearly a mistake for the United states in 1971 to agree with the UN to remove the Republic of China -in exile- from the UN Security council. It was also a big mistake for Jimmy Carter to announce that US would no longer recognize the Republic of China as well as have the United States remove itself from a treaty of mutal alliance with the Republic of China.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-09-18 06:36pm

I *is* somewhat ironic that we claim to be for democracy, yet we kowtow to a repressive dictatorship and refuse to recognize Taiwan's democratically elected government.

But it's 'all about the Benjamins, baby'.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-09-18 07:55pm

Didn't we sign some treaty saying that China will be eventually reunited?

That's ridicolous. America needs to check China, not kowtow to it.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-18 08:32pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Didn't we sign some treaty saying that China will be eventually reunited?

That's ridicolous. America needs to check China, not kowtow to it.

The problem is China won't be a superpower by the next elections, so no one gives a shit. Gotta love representative democracy...

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-18 09:51pm

It's also a question of China's huge population- unsavory government or not, it is more rightfully China, in those terms. And besides- they won.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-18 09:59pm

The only reason anyone accepts this "Reunification of China" bullshit seriously is that they think Taiwanese and Chinese are the same ethnicity. They aren't; Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese are different ethnicities.

Once you remove the bizarre assumption that "because they're all yeller, they all be the same", China's behaviour looks more like what it is: naked expansionism.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-09-18 10:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:The only reason anyone accepts this "Reunification of China" bullshit seriously is that they think Taiwanese and Chinese are the same ethnicity. They aren't; Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese are different ethnicities.

Once you remove the bizarre assumption that "because they're all yeller, they all be the same", China's behaviour looks more like what it is: naked expansionism.

The Republic of China on Taiwan is actually a mixture of all three becuase good size of Cantonese and Mainland chinese either fled the the mainland when the Communists took control or were part of the Kuomingtang Army when they retreated to Formosa in 1949.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-18 11:23pm

Darth Wong wrote:The only reason anyone accepts this "Reunification of China" bullshit seriously is that they think Taiwanese and Chinese are the same ethnicity. They aren't; Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese are different ethnicities.

About two million nationalists fled from the mainland to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil war. Today they make up around 20% of the country while controlling most of the government.

Once you remove the bizarre assumption that "because they're all yeller, they all be the same", China's behaviour looks more like what it is: naked expansionism.

While they did lose Taiwan to Japan over a century ago in 1896 and only held it for a few years after WW2, it belonged to them for a rather long time before that. Anyway it doesn't really matter; the nations are huge training partners and while the PRC would like to keep Taiwan isolated politically its not happening, nor will military or economic action. Over time its probably just going to cease being an issue as the hardliners who remember the revolution all die off on both sides.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-18 11:25pm

Nearly 20% of the US is composed of black people, most of whom can trace ancestry to Africa, but that doesn't make the US an extension of Africa. And really old territorial claims are just an excuse for expansionism in my book.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-18 11:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:The only reason anyone accepts this "Reunification of China" bullshit seriously is that they think Taiwanese and Chinese are the same ethnicity. They aren't; Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese are different ethnicities.

Once you remove the bizarre assumption that "because they're all yeller, they all be the same", China's behaviour looks more like what it is: naked expansionism.

It gets more complicated when you consider there were "native" Taiwanese living on that island when all the Nationalists arrived. The "natives" have been pretty much swallowed up by the immigrants from the Mainland.

I think it is a big joke we dont recognize Taiwan as a nation state, but we are willing to defend it will arms should China make a move.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-09-19 12:10am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I think it is a big joke we dont recognize Taiwan as a nation state, but we are willing to defend it will arms should China make a move.

It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Recognizing Taiwan would result in a shitstorm between the USA and PRC, while saying we're willing to defend them lets the PRC intimidate ROC without upsetting the USA, thus maintaining relative stability while satisfying the PRC's PolitBuro's expansionistic tendencies.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-09-19 12:17am

The only reason anyone accepts this "Reunification of China" bullshit seriously is that they think Taiwanese and Chinese are the same ethnicity. They aren't; Cantonese, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese are different ethnicities.

The ferocity on which numerous native Chinese insist on 'Reunification' can actually be a bit scary.

The treaty I could understand at the time, but I'm not sure why America needs to pretend that Taiwan is anything but an independent nation now.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-19 12:32am

HemlockGrey wrote:
The treaty I could understand at the time, but I'm not sure why America needs to pretend that Taiwan is anything but an independent nation now.

The PRC will go ape shit is why they pretend- trading and all that I guess. Back in the Cold War it was so the PRC could be used as a foil against the USSR I guess.