Homeworld Exiles vs. Federation

Datana · Post by **Datana** » 2002-07-13 09:12pm

Given the game-related vs. threads and CommandoJoe's reference to Barber's "Adagio for Strings" a bit back, how about this one? The Exile Fleet from "Homeworld" has located Hiigara (their Homeworld and ultimate destination)... right in the middle of Federation space. Given their propensity for torturing prisoners to death, disrespect of territorial rights, and their Mothership's fleet of escort fighters, destroyers, frigates, and carriers, the Federation naturally wants nothing to do with them and sends a fleet to intercept and keep them out. Can the Feds keep the Exiles and their colonists away from the Homeworld, or are they overrun and have to deal with a new neighbor?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-14 01:53pm

Been nice knowing the Exiles. Even if they had superior technology, which I don't really think they do, the Exiles would be overrun. At any given time in HW you've got MAYBE a dozen capital ships not counting frigates, the Federation would overrun them and outrun them. HW ships, even their fighters are incredibly slow, it takes them minutes to travel even a few dozen kilometers. Their longest ranged weapons only have a range of a few kilometers at most while phasers can be fired from a lightsecond out and still be effective (although with a significantly greater chance of missing and reduced power) and torpedos can be fired at 3,000,000-4,000,000 kilometers, the Federation fleet just has to sit back and hammer away at them from a distance and even if there wasn't a significant military technology advantage on the Federation side, the Exiles would be gonners for sure.

Admiral Griffith · Post by **Admiral Griffith** » 2002-07-14 02:02pm

i'm sorry, but the feds have never demonstrated the ability to use the torpedoes at those ranges. And the Exiles have Ion Cannons. Say goodbye to your Miranda-Class Starshhips!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-14 02:06pm

The Exiles cut a swath of destruction through the Federation. No matter what the Trekkies want to claim, their starships engage at close range, and their weapons density is pathetic compared to a Homeworld capital ship. Throw in the sheer destruction a wing of 'Hammer' Bombers can do.. After all, the Federation rarely deploys fighters... and throw in a pair of 'Avatar'-class Heavy Cruisers and it's a stampede from the border to Hiigara.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-14 02:09pm

Is Homeworld Travel Instantious? If so Range Limitation?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-14 02:43pm

Its damn near instantaneous, with a range of at least hundreds of km, and cutscenes suggest far, far more because the scenery and stars change completely between each jump.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-14 03:45pm

Manual indicates tens of thousands of LY in a single jump, but their control of shorter jumps is 'primitive'. They aim along a straight line and set a timer to interrupt at the right time.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-14 03:55pm

SirNitram wrote:Manual indicates tens of thousands of LY in a single jump, but their control of shorter jumps is 'primitive'. They aim along a straight line and set a timer to interrupt at the right time.

Essentially what the SW Galaxy does with hyperdrive--except that they have better computing.

Datana · Post by **Datana** » 2002-07-14 05:38pm

The manual and the Homeworld homepage at http://homeworld.sierra.com offer different numbers -- the manual offers a range in the tens of thousands of lightyears per jump, while the page offers a maximum range of 2500 ly/jump (barring interdiction). Either one is significantly faster than warp, considering that it takes around ten minutes to recharge and recompute for another hyperspace jump (if game time isn't compressed). Still, the Feds might try blockading Hiigara itself, along the lines of what the Taiidani tried and failed to do.

Effective ion cannon range is 7.3 kilometers (based on the SHP file for the Ion Frigate; pretty short ranged for most series). This is a bit farther than usual engagement range for Trek combat in cases where we see the action, but within the normal envelope (namely, visual range). The sheer production speed of fighters and battleships in-game would give that advantage to the Exiles, but the Feds do have far greater numbers to begin with (if they pulled everything they had together) and a more stable government than the Taiidani (so revolts are unlikely, unless you count the Maquis).

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-07-14 07:33pm

Plus the exiles have another secret weapon, the best damn scientist's/research facilty's anywhere, how many times does the game go, 'The Enemy seems to be using a different type of [Insert Randmon new ship function] Our Research division now informs us that they can design a ship to fulfil a similar role...' The feds advantage's will be quickly copied and incorpurated in a new improved ship class!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-14 08:32pm

[Tac Officer] The enemy is using a kind of Matter/Antimatter torpedo to harass our destroyers. Engineering thinks they can mount similar weapons on our Dreadnoughts. Recommend commencing research, right away![/Tac Officer]

The Kuun-Lan would be even worse.... That thing has -real-, -confirmed- 300,000Km range, and the hit is nothing short of devastating.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-14 09:16pm

The Kuun-Lan is a scary sonofabitch.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-14 09:45pm

Yea, it's just a simple little mining vessel....

Bastard winds up being able to brawl, point blank, with Heavy Cruisers, and nail entire fighter wings out of existance from the next time zone. I especially like how I always enter the last mission: A Siege Cannon volley into the closest combat group, followed by Mimic Swarm.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-15 05:52pm

Believe it or not, I think that the UFP would win this fight. I loved the game, Homeworld, but I do not see how the projectile-based weapons of most fighters in Homeworld could do damage even to ST ships.

Post by **Steve** » 2002-07-15 06:57pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Believe it or not, I think that the UFP would win this fight. I loved the game, Homeworld, but I do not see how the projectile-based weapons of most fighters in Homeworld could do damage even to ST ships.

And why is that? What is so wrong with "projectile" weapons? Missiles and torpedoes are projectiles! And I guarantee you, Feddie shields and hull would not like having a 460mm AP round of even modern mass fired from a cannon (likely magnetic propulsion, IOW, railgun) with a muzzle velocity of 100km/s or more (likely more).... (Note: Bore size is an example.)

Post by **Steve** » 2002-07-15 06:58pm

*sees "fighter" remark*

Doesn't really nullify my last remark, but I suppose I should re-address it. Projectile weapons on fighters would in all probability be anti-fighter, not for use against warships; that's what torpedoes/missiles are for, plus capital ship-grade weapons.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-15 09:35pm

Never forget that bombers don't use simple bullets, but plasma bombs. You know, like Plasma Torpedos.

That and a Heavy Cruiser is so huge you can bounce Galaxies off it...

General G · Post by **General G** » 2002-07-17 09:11pm

The feds might have a chance as long as the Taidaniis and Beast don't get involved.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-17 09:19pm

I remember the funny retorts SB.com Trekkies had against a Beastial invasion.

'They've met the Borg, so OBVIOUSLY they are immune to nanites'(Let's ignore that the Borg still assimilate them.)

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-07-17 11:57pm

SirNitram wrote:I remember the funny retorts SB.com Trekkies had against a Beastial invasion.

'They've met the Borg, so OBVIOUSLY they are immune to nanites'(Let's ignore that the Borg still assimilate them.)

LoL.

I think the Exiles can pull it off if they play it carefully.

They could jump so far away that the Feds could never get to them in time, and build a massive fleet.

Then simply roll over the Feds when the time comes, perhaps also using a variation on the Empire's tactic of attacking remote Federation worlds, allowing them to get a distress call off, which will spread the Federation fleet out etc.

Admiral Griffith · Post by **Admiral Griffith** » 2002-07-31 12:10pm

Admiral Griffith wrote:i'm sorry, but the feds have never demonstrated the ability to use the torpedoes at those ranges. And the Exiles have Ion Cannons. Say goodbye to your Miranda-Class Starshhips!

I know i'm quoting myself, but i made a typo. "Say goodbye to your Akira-Class 'Battlecruisers'"

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2002-07-31 12:41pm

you could probably make the Exiles vs Feds more interesting by having it so that there is a large federation colony on Hiigara when the Exiles arrive.

By the way I have two questions for homeworld people.

First, do the Exiles resemble human beings?

Second, did anybody figure out why they were exiled to Kharak?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-31 01:11pm

1) Yes, they resemble humans. We know this, because in the ending you see Karan Sjet's ass.(I'm not kidding)

2) They were exiled because their empire was toppled. The Tenhauser Gate mission(Where you save the Bentusi) explains this.

Admiral Griffith · Post by **Admiral Griffith** » 2002-07-31 06:29pm

this should probably settle any arguments about fleet size:
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~homeworld/ ... ota117.jpg

read it and weep

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-31 06:48pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:you could probably make the Exiles vs Feds more interesting by having it so that there is a large federation colony on Hiigara when the Exiles arrive.

By the way I have two questions for homeworld people.

First, do the Exiles resemble human beings?

Second, did anybody figure out why they were exiled to Kharak?

The Exiles do resemble humans (ref. when they put the scientist in the computer core), and they were exiled long ago after they lost a huge war with their enemies. They then form a treaty that says that they can never get jump-technology again, but they forgot about the treaty when they built the Mothership. Thus, the other side attacked them when they registered the Mothership as jumping, and destroyed their world.