Millennium Falcon's Weapon's Range

[Lord Poe]

Hey kids! I just put up a new page!!


http://h4h.com/louis/falconrange/falconrange.html

[Darth Servo]

Wonderful. Of course, refuting Scooter's BS isn't exactly a major accomplishment. Getting him to STFU, now THATS an accomplishment. You might want to add a link to MoO's refutation of that page as well.

[The Third Man]

There's a couple of things confusing me with this:

1) How do you get 1740m from 145.83m/s and 16 seconds? And 800m from 68m/s and 16 seconds? Shouldn't the 16 be more like 11.75 seconds?

2) Why the assumption that the MF moves at a constant velocity towards the DS? Is it not likely that Han would zoom towards the action until he's in weapons range and then fire whilst decelerating?

[Lord Poe]

There's a couple of things confusing me with this:

1) How do you get 1740m from 145.83m/s and 16 seconds? And 800m from 68m/s and 16 seconds? Shouldn't the 16 be more like 11.75 seconds?

Simple. I fucked up. My original estimate was 12 seconds between the first laserblast until the Falcon pulls up. I forgot to change the rest of the estimate. Its actually about 2,320m and about 1000m/s respectively.

2) Why the assumption that the MF moves at a constant velocity towards the DS? Is it not likely that Han would zoom towards the action until he's in weapons range and then fire whilst decelerating?

We need proof he did so. Onscreen evidence says he was doing a full power dive the whole time.

[Lord Poe]

Wonderful. Of course, refuting Scooter's BS isn't exactly a major accomplishment. Getting him to STFU, now THATS an accomplishment. You might want to add a link to MoO's refutation of that page as well.

Good idea.

[Connor MacLeod]

2) Why the assumption that the MF moves at a constant velocity towards the DS? Is it not likely that Han would zoom towards the action until he's in weapons range and then fire whilst decelerating?

We need proof he did so. Onscreen evidence says he was doing a full power dive the whole time.

Speed doesn't matter in space (top speed is relative), acceleration is the only thing that matters

Besides, logically, he could easily cover 30 kms in a second if he wanted with engines. Then again, that magnetic field might be a complication (it might limit his acceleration.

Then again accel tells us the Falcon should be capable of moving many kms per second at high speed. ITs just as valid to use that in the figure as the sub-kilometers er second figures.

[Lord Poe]

Speed doesn't matter in space (top speed is relative), acceleration is the only thing that matters

Quiet, you!

Besides, logically, he could easily cover 30 kms in a second if he wanted with engines. Then again, that magnetic field might be a complication (it might limit his acceleration.

Or he wanted to make certain Chewie had a clear shot at the TIE and not Luke.

Then again accel tells us the Falcon should be capable of moving many kms per second at high speed. ITs just as valid to use that in the figure as the sub-kilometers er second figures.

Yeah, but that's for balls-out "Let's get the fuck outta here" velocity! I limited it to what we saw for that particular shot on the vidcap Brian provided., which makes the overall range estimate of the ship insanely conservative.

[Connor MacLeod]

Or he wanted to make certain Chewie had a clear shot at the TIE and not Luke.

Possibly, but a higher velocity would dictate the ship starting off at a greater range. The fact they are capable of higher accelerations do in fact suggest this. This would in turn suggest that the Falcon never passed THROUGH the Magnetic field of the Death Star, and that they were using computer targeting and optical magnification.

It might be interesting to try to figure out how wide the magnetic field is, and maybe how far away the Rebels were from the Death Star when they passed through it (and some such).

Yeah, but that's for balls-out "Let's get the fuck outta here" velocity! I limited it to what we saw for that particular shot on the vidcap Brian provided., which makes the overall range estimate of the ship insanely conservative.

Yes, but if you don't specify that it c ould be MUCH higher and why, they'll simply crow about it being an upper limit.

Besides, you could *Still* insert the km/sec velocity for the Falcon based on what was extrapolated. You used speed figuresf rom *other* Falcon examples (TESB for example)

[His Divine Shadow]

An examination of the quote from Destiny's way would be interesting.

[Ender]

You might want to have conclusions as to what the actual range was for those varying speeds.

[Darth Servo]

You might want to have conclusions as to what the actual range was for those varying speeds.

Just generate lower limits. Thats all we can do with the info at hand. For all we know, the falcon could be half way across the solar system at this point.

Oh and Wayne, fix the "return to USVSD main page" link at the bottom of the page.

[Robert Walper]

I thought fanatical Trekkies had this one solved already? Turboelasershave a range of roughly 300,000km per second. Though of course, the weapons are so pitifully weak in the first place, at that range they cannot even give you a tan.

[Ender]

You might want to have conclusions as to what the actual range was for those varying speeds.

Just generate lower limits. Thats all we can do with the info at hand. For all we know, the falcon could be half way across the solar system at this point.

I know that, lower limits is what I ment.

[Lord Poe]

Oh and Wayne, fix the "return to USVSD main page" link at the bottom of the page.

Done!

[Ender]

I must say, bobby was pretty damn quick. Paranoid cow fucker must monitor your page so he can refute it as soon as it is updated or something.

[Lord Poe]

I must say, bobby was pretty damn quick. Paranoid cow fucker must monitor your page so he can refute it as soon as it is updated or something.

He's my number one fan! Much like the braniacs on my hate mail page, he add fodder for my favorite sport of tearing apart idiotic arguments. I just posted a rebuttal to the bottom of the new page!

[The Silence and I]

Ok, some notes I have:

1) The Falcon appears, from the caps on your site, to be moving from about 325.78 m/s to 359.04 m/s from frames 57116 to 57153.
2) This would put the Falcon at least 5212--5744m away from the DS, and at the time of the first shot it would have appeared about 5 pixels (out of 640) from the camera view seen when the Falcon came out of the sun.
3) Lucas's quote at the top of your page indicates vader should have been able to see the Falcon were it not for the out of the sun trick, so the Falcon was very likely well within sight range of vader. If I read your angular resolution thing right this should mean under 44 km (although that sounds very long to me, also would Vader notice something that small--even if he could see it?).

At frame 57116 the Falcon is ~50.93 pixels out of 640
At frame 57153 the falcon is 550ish pixels out of 640
Time between is (24 FPS) 1.54 sec.
I am in the camp that thinks the Falcon is about ~53m long and ~44m wide:

Curtis Saxton finds that the twin globes on top of ISD bridge towers are ~43 meters in diameter. In this image, the Falcon is attached to the stern portion of one of these towers. The globe is 92 pixels in diameter. The Falcon is 93 pixels wide and 114 pixels long. By these measurements, the Falcon is ~43.5 meters wide and ~53.2 meters long.

Using RSA's formula the Falcon starts at [50.93/640=44m/x] meter from the camera (x=552.92m--which by the way handily disproves RSA's 200m claim)
For a conservative speed I will use the uncertain 550 pixels Falcon length=~51.2m from the camera, or an average speed of 325.78 m/s.
Assuming at frame 57153 the Falcon's distance from the camera is zero gives a max speed of about (552.92m in 1.54 sec) 359.04 m/s. This assumption bumps up the speed a bit, but not terribly and is a good bench-mark for your calcs.

I find the range I came up with seems long, but it fits as AFAIK. I would quess whomever was in the turret had plenty time to line up the shot, and the TIE's were not exactally maneuvering.

[Isolder74]

Interesting......

Darkstar is still in top form(as he sees it) of course using a situation that automatically puts the Falcon at a disadvantage favors his point of veiw. In the case of the Tie scene he uses they are all in the cockpit. Even though he doesn't say out loud that he is charging the Quads he might have done it anyway. of course it is fairly clear that firing the twin Quad Turrets from the Cockpit greatly reduces accuracy by default greatly reduces the effective range.

In the Case of the Trade Federation BattleFreighter(I refuse to call the thing a battleship because it is not really but a converted Mass Cargo Carrier, EP I ICS) The Queens Ship Is approaching the blockade at a High speed. Part of the idea of a blockade it to capture ships attempting to breach it rather than blow them to bits. Fireing Bracketing shots while some gunners handle precise work fit the goals of the blockade perfectally. We see them hit the droids either they got lucky several times in a row or they WERE aiming for them! hiting three out of three with three shots(we see no other bolts fly by) is VERY GOOD SHOOTING!

[Ender]

Wayne had publicized the page I discuss above on SD.Net . . . I publicized my quick response only on my site. Amusingly, Wayne managed to reply to the above on his site with a similar quickness. Why is this amusing? Because his compatriots accused me of being "paranoid" and told Wayne that I "must monitor your page so he can refute it as soon as it is updated or something". I love how they always accuse me of their own failings.

Now please demonstrate how I am accusing you of my failing when I lack a site to swiftly update and don't have a host of people I regard as enemies.

Incidently, You prove my characterization right: your response shows you are very much concerned with your preception by those you treat as enemies and demonstrate that you also monitor here after demanding to be banned.

Oh, and why is it you are able to craft all these new pages, but still havent' gotten around to explaining the mechanism, or hell even the name of the particle that casues the MCR, like you told MoO you would do in the future?

[Ender]

Ok, some notes I have:

1) The Falcon appears, from the caps on your site, to be moving from about 325.78 m/s to 359.04 m/s from frames 57116 to 57153.
2) This would put the Falcon at least 5212--5744m away from the DS, and at the time of the first shot it would have appeared about 5 pixels (out of 640) from the camera view seen when the Falcon came out of the sun.
3) Lucas's quote at the top of your page indicates vader should have been able to see the Falcon were it not for the out of the sun trick, so the Falcon was very likely well within sight range of vader. If I read your angular resolution thing right this should mean under 44 km (although that sounds very long to me, also would Vader notice something that small--even if he could see it?).

At frame 57116 the Falcon is ~50.93 pixels out of 640
At frame 57153 the falcon is 550ish pixels out of 640
Time between is (24 FPS) 1.54 sec.
I am in the camp that thinks the Falcon is about ~53m long and ~44m wide:

Curtis Saxton finds that the twin globes on top of ISD bridge towers are ~43 meters in diameter. In this image, the Falcon is attached to the stern portion of one of these towers. The globe is 92 pixels in diameter. The Falcon is 93 pixels wide and 114 pixels long. By these measurements, the Falcon is ~43.5 meters wide and ~53.2 meters long.

Using RSA's formula the Falcon starts at [50.93/640=44m/x] meter from the camera (x=552.92m--which by the way handily disproves RSA's 200m claim)
For a conservative speed I will use the uncertain 550 pixels Falcon length=~51.2m from the camera, or an average speed of 325.78 m/s.
Assuming at frame 57153 the Falcon's distance from the camera is zero gives a max speed of about (552.92m in 1.54 sec) 359.04 m/s. This assumption bumps up the speed a bit, but not terribly and is a good bench-mark for your calcs.

I find the range I came up with seems long, but it fits as AFAIK. I would quess whomever was in the turret had plenty time to line up the shot, and the TIE's were not exactally maneuvering.

Two things:

1) Vader's sight might have been enhanced by his mask. I'd suggest going off of how much Luke's binoculars could see as a benchmark.

2) You are using a top view of the Falcon to derive how much of it he could see when you should only be using its frontal area (smaller numbers will be generated, but it will be more accurate)

[Lord Poe]

=snicker=

No matter how you slice it, 200m range for the Falcon is idiotic. Note that from the time the first wingman is hit, until the Falcon "touches the camera" is 7 seconds.

68m/s * 7 = 476m/s

There is NO wiggle room here. Not even DipShit can find a way for the Falcon NOT to be diving THIS whole time!!

[Isolder74]

=snicker=

No matter how you slice it, 200m range for the Falcon is idiotic. Note that from the time the first wingman is hit, until the Falcon "touches the camera" is 7 seconds.

68m/s * 7 = 476m/s

There is NO wiggle room here. Not even DipShit can find a way for the Falcon NOT to be diving THIS whole time!!

Thats 476 m since the seconds cancel

Watch your units they can get you into real trouble!

[Lord Poe]

Thats 476 m since the seconds cancel

Watch your units they can get you into real trouble!

Ach, too quick on the cut n paste!

Anyway, I've frazzled Scooter so badly about this, he's used his weekend to make two new pages especially about me! Hehehe!

[The Silence and I]

<snip>

Two things:

1) Vader's sight might have been enhanced by his mask. I'd suggest going off of how much Luke's binoculars could see as a benchmark.

2) You are using a top view of the Falcon to derive how much of it he could see when you should only be using its frontal area (smaller numbers will be generated, but it will be more accurate)

1) Ah yes, I forgot about the mask, that could mix things up, but would it only enhance what he asks it to--meaning he would have to notice the Falcon first? In other words, Luke binoculars can show distant objects, but obviously at a reduced field of vision, would not the same resrtiction apply to Vader?
2) Whoops, yes you are right, but I think it still serves my point (And this explains why I couldn't envision seeing the Falcon head on at 44 km )

[Ender]

For shits and giggles, does anyone have the thread where he claimed that? I can't tell which one it was in my searches