Hoth, snowspeeders and X-wings

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-01-17 05:20am

I noticed this topic up at TFN, and I believe my brain cells are now dead from looking at all the dumb posts, so, can anyone else juice up the answer why snowspeeders were used over X-wings?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-01-17 05:24am

The X-Wings were covering the evac transports?

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-01-17 06:08am

Lazy Raptor wrote:The X-Wings were covering the evac transports?

No, the X-wing of the speeder pilots (and possibly the gunners as well) were prepared and towed to the southern slope during or by the time of the start of the battle (suggesting that the imperials were coming from north). (Novel and script level.) According to the novelisation, the use of cables was a sudden idea, so, I do not know.

The speeders must have some advantage in air to ground combat over the X-wings. The heat cannot be a factor, since the battle didn't last and wasn't planned to last longer than a few dozen minutes at max.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-01-17 06:17am

That's only if the speeders were only used for the battle. They were also used for patrol. Cold was an issue in deciding to use them in the first place as defense most likely.

The web site even says that it was.

"When stationed on Hoth, the Rebel Alliance modified T-47 airspeeders to become snowspeeders, fast flying conveyances for patrol and defense of their hidden base. It took some doing to keep the crippling cold from permanently grounding their airforce, but Rebel ingenuity overcame the relentless Hoth elements."

Perhaps it has something to do with their manueverability. Speedwise, in atmosphere, X-wings don't have that much of an advantage.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-17 08:52am

Easy, Snowspeeder have a max. allitidute.(SP?) X-Wings do not. If you used X-Wings their speed adn manuverability might have had Pilots duking to far up and hitting the energy shield. Thats my theory anyway.

TrekWarsie · Post by **TrekWarsie** » 2004-01-17 09:27am

Maybe they just couldn't afford to risk losing any X-Wings in the battle. Though I'd gladly trade an X-Wing for the destruction of the entire first wave of the assault force. And we do know that X-Wing lasers are capable of penetrating AT-AT armor. Maybe it was also a fuel issue. Battling it out with the walkers may have used up too much fuel for the X-Wings, though that would probably be going out on a limb.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-17 11:10am

TrekWarsie wrote:Maybe they just couldn't afford to risk losing any X-Wings in the battle. Though I'd gladly trade an X-Wing for the destruction of the entire first wave of the assault force. And we do know that X-Wing lasers are capable of penetrating AT-AT armor. Maybe it was also a fuel issue. Battling it out with the walkers may have used up too much fuel for the X-Wings, though that would probably be going out on a limb.

They weren't willing to lose X-Wings but they were willing to lose their X-Wing pilots? That makes no sense.

Infact using Snow-Speeders for defense makes absolutely no sense at all. X-Wings would have been superior in every way and should have been used. I have not seen any reason why they shouldn't have been used.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-17 11:30am

It is also strange the Empire did not use TIEs, even if the shield prevented them to fly in (they could've dragged them into the shield and then lift up in the air). Perhaps the shield has more to do with anti-starfighter stuff than we know.
It may also be that the X-wing is totally worthless against the AT-AT due to poor maneuvrability. I don't really know if the X-wings could rip the AT-ATs armor, given it's termal conductivity feats

'cause nothing in the canon ever managed to blast through the armor (the snowspeeder shot which destroyed the fallen walker hit the broken and lightly protected neck area).
The snowspeeder ramming has been, as I heard, denied by Lucasfilm.
I think either something in that shield prevented the use of X-wings, or they all were needed for other tasks (although it's strange) or they were ineffective.

All that is illogical. Nothing seems to prevent X-wing use... but then, the X-wings may be not able to operate in Hoth cold. Imperial walkers and snowspeeders were specially designed for Hoth cold, so it seems that tech cant effectively work in that temperature.

Presumably this horrible cold would cause the X-wing to malfunction or whatever during combat. That is the only more or less logical explanation.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-17 11:43am

Stas Bush wrote:It is also strange the Empire did not use TIEs, even if the shield prevented them to fly in (they could've dragged them into the shield and then lift up in the air). Perhaps the shield has more to do with anti-starfighter stuff than we know.
It may also be that the X-wing is totally worthless against the AT-AT due to poor maneuvrability. I don't really know if the X-wings could rip the AT-ATs armor, given it's termal conductivity feats 'cause nothing in the canon ever managed to blast through the armor (the snowspeeder shot which destroyed the fallen walker hit the broken and lightly protected neck area).
The snowspeeder ramming has been, as I heard, denied by Lucasfilm.
I think either something in that shield prevented the use of X-wings, or they all were needed for other tasks (although it's strange) or they were ineffective.

All that is illogical. Nothing seems to prevent X-wing use... but then, the X-wings may be not able to operate in Hoth cold. Imperial walkers and snowspeeders were specially designed for Hoth cold, so it seems that tech cant effectively work in that temperature.

Presumably this horrible cold would cause the X-wing to malfunction or whatever during combat. That is the only more or less logical explanation.

Hoth cold can not be significantly colder then what X-Wings have dealt with before. Both in the coldness of space and coldness of upper atmosphere combat we know that X-Wings have been in. Hoth might have been cold, but it was warm enough that exposed skin didn't instantly freeze. Thus it was within opperating temperatures for an X-Wing.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2004-01-17 11:44am

I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-01-17 11:56am

Kerneth wrote:I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.

Cold air is vastly different from the vaccum of space.

I know its something to do with the cold and how it affects machinery, but for the sake of me, I can't recall why this is so. Anyone can help?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-01-17 12:00pm

PainRack wrote:
Kerneth wrote:I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.
Cold air is vastly different from the vaccum of space.

I know its something to do with the cold and how it affects machinery, but for the sake of me, I can't recall why this is so. Anyone can help?

Simple really. Cold air conducts and removes heat much quicker then the cold of space. Its like the difference between being in cold air and putting your hand in cold water. Density. Space is cold, but because there is no atmosphere there is lots of room between the cold particles. Cold air on the other hand is much denser and will have a much bigger affect on the machinery.

Course anything that can fly in the upper atmosphere on a planet should be able to handle the cold on Hoth. They are roughly comparable seeing as uncovered skin wasn't in danger of frostbite on Hoth.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-01-17 01:03pm

Alyeska wrote:
PainRack wrote:
Kerneth wrote:I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.
Cold air is vastly different from the vaccum of space.

I know its something to do with the cold and how it affects machinery, but for the sake of me, I can't recall why this is so. Anyone can help?
Simple really. Cold air conducts and removes heat much quicker then the cold of space. Its like the difference between being in cold air and putting your hand in cold water. Density. Space is cold, but because there is no atmosphere there is lots of room between the cold particles. Cold air on the other hand is much denser and will have a much bigger affect on the machinery.

Course anything that can fly in the upper atmosphere on a planet should be able to handle the cold on Hoth. They are roughly comparable seeing as uncovered skin wasn't in danger of frostbite on Hoth.

That's not it.

We have aircraft that can operate in the toposphere and even stratosphere, but their abilities when operating in snow and a cold front are dramatically reduced. The problem is, I just can't for the heck of me remember why and what happens.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2004-01-17 01:54pm

I'm thinking fuel. The X-wings had to make multiple hyperspace jumps to hide their destination, each of which eats up a lot of fuel, and there's no telling what they'll face at each jump. The fuel expended by being in battle on Hoth might have been deemed too risky.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-01-17 02:28pm

Mad wrote:I'm thinking fuel. The X-wings had to make multiple hyperspace jumps to hide their destination, each of which eats up a lot of fuel, and there's no telling what they'll face at each jump. The fuel expended by being in battle on Hoth might have been deemed too risky.

Thats the only possible reason I've thought of.

Its not as they were covering the transports, Luke's X-Wing was waiting for him, had he flown that, the AT-AT's would be toast.

2 X-Wings would probably have been enough.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-17 02:40pm

Additionally to that, is it possible that it takes more fuel to move through an atmosphere than through space?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-17 02:41pm

Mad wrote:I'm thinking fuel. The X-wings had to make multiple hyperspace jumps to hide their destination, each of which eats up a lot of fuel, and there's no telling what they'll face at each jump. The fuel expended by being in battle on Hoth might have been deemed too risky.

I don't know. Luke's starfighter made multiple hyperjumps and made orbit several times on a single tank of gas. I can't see how fuel would be a problem.

Seele · Post by **Seele** » 2004-01-17 04:00pm

Well the rebels looked like they weren't expecting the AT AT's at all. Perhaps if they have known that ahead of time, they would have used their x-wings instead.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-01-17 04:02pm

Kerneth wrote:I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.

Perhaps it was the repulsorlifts that were most affected by the cold. They wouldn't be needed for space travel, except to take off and land, but they would need to be constantly used during combat in a gravity well.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-17 09:46pm

Its not like it would have taken that long. Five AT-ATs, five torpedoes, its over in 30 seconds.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-17 10:02pm

Keep in mind that the 6 walkers deployed by Death Squadron were an extremely small part of their ground attack force. No matter how much the Rebels could've thrown at them, the Imperials would've kept coming until they overran the base. Since it is likely that the X-Wings served other purposes than escorting the Rebel cruisers away from Hoth, and they are in very limited supply, they may have been deemed inexpendable for such a futile operation. Still, needing to stall for time, the Rebels sent out their snowspeeders to combat the AT-ATs.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-17 10:06pm

I know, but they would have bought themselves all the time it would take to land another strike force had they destroyed the first one. Instead, they piddled around with it, barely buying themselves 30 seconds (you'll notice the walkers never stopped advancing; the snowspeeders didn't buy them shit).

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-01-17 10:07pm

Kerneth wrote:I don't see how the weather on Hoth could possibly be cold enough to interfere with a fighter designed to fight in SPACE.

Simple, in atmosphere you've got to deal with conduction/convection issues as well as simple radiation.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Additionally to that, is it possible that it takes more fuel to move through an atmosphere than through space?

Yes it does, and it takes a lot more to run the sublight engines in a dogfight (even in space), according to Rogue Squadron.

Rogue 9 wrote:Its not like it would have taken that long. Five AT-ATs, five torpedoes, its over in 30 seconds.

Congratulations, you've just nuked your own ground troops. Brilliant plan there buddy.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-17 10:12pm

They knew about the walkers how far out? No one says you have to wait until they're on top of the base. Or that you bother to send out ground troops at all, seeing how they did absolutely nothing other than die and waste energy shooting.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-17 10:12pm

Whoops. See next page there....