'It's a sniper's dream'
Marine sharpshooters use stealth, high-powered rifles in Fallujah
Tony Perry
Los Angeles Times
Associated Press
FALLUJAH, Iraq -- Taking a short breather Friday, the 21-year-old Marine corporal explained what it is like to practice his lethal skill in the battle for this city.
"It's a sniper's dream," he said in polite, matter-of-fact tones. "You can go anywhere and there are so many ways to fire at the enemy without him knowing where you are."
Sniping -- killing an enemy from long distance with a single shot -- has become a significant tactic for Marines in this "Sunni Triangle" city as three battalions skirmish daily with armed insurgents who can find cover among the buildings, walls and trees.
Marine sniper teams are spread in and around the city, working night and day, using powerful scopes, thermal imaging equipment and specially modified bolt-action rifles that allow them to identify and target armed insurgents from 800 yards or more.
Sniping experts -- there are several here with the Marines -- say there might not have been such a "target-rich" battlefield
for such shooters since the World War II battle for Stalingrad, during which German and Russian snipers dueled for months.
As a military tactic, sniping is centuries old; the first snipers used bows and arrows. Leonardo da Vinci is said to have been a sniper against the Holy Roman Empire.
Weapons change, but the goal of the sniper remains the same: harass and intimidate the enemy, make him afraid to venture into the open, deny him the chance to rest and regroup.
The Marines believe their snipers have killed hundreds of insurgents, although that figure alone does not accurately portray the significance of sniping. A sign on the wall of sniper school at Camp Pendleton, Calif., displays a Chinese proverb: "Kill One Man, Terrorize a Thousand." "Sometimes a guy will go down, and I'll let him scream a bit to destroy the morale of his buddies," said the Marine corporal. "Then I'll use a second shot."
In negotiations aimed at ending the standoff in the city, the insurgents have demanded that the Marines pull back their snipers.
A shaky truce exists between the Marines who surround the city and the fighters within the circle. But the cease-fire allows the Marines to carry out defensive operations within the city, which among other things they define as allowing fire on insurgents who display weapons, break the curfew or move their forces toward U.S. troops.
While official policy discourages Marines from keeping a personal count of people they have killed, the custom continues. In nearly two weeks of conflict here, the corporal from a Midwestern city has emerged as the top sniper, with 24 confirmed kills. By comparison, the top Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam killed 103 people in 16 months.
"As a sniper your goal is to completely demoralize the enemy," said the corporal, who played football and ran track in high school and dreams of becoming a high school coach. "I couldn't have asked to be in a better place. I just got lucky: to be here at the right time and with the right training."
The military has asked that sniper names not be published. Insurgents were said to have placed a bounty for the killing of any Marine sniper. A Web site, linked to the insurgents, attempts to provide information on snipers and their family members. During Vietnam, the Viet Cong also put a bounty on snipers.
Marine snipers, whose motto is "one shot, one kill," fire from rooftops in crowded urban areas of Fallujah, as well as exploring the city by foot. It sometimes takes hours to set up a shot, as the sniper hides in the distance, waiting for the opportune moment.
Marine officers credit the snipers, all of whom are enlisted men, with saving Marine lives by suppressing enemy fire and allowing their comrades greater freedom of movement.
"The snipers clear the streets for us," said Capt. Douglas Zembiec. "The snipers are true heroes."
Sniper teams have come under fire and suffered casualties. Marine intelligence suggests that the insurgents -- using Russian- and Chinese-made rifles and optics -- have their own sniper teams, but there have been no reports of Marines killed by sniper fire.
Unlike other infantry troops, the sniper has a greater confidence that his shot is not as likely to hit a civilian or a "friendly."
The corporal hopes to get back home by late fall in time to take his girlfriend to a college football game and go deer hunting with his father.
"When I go hunting for whitetail, it's for food and sport," he said. "Here, when I go hunting, it's personal, very personal."
Interesting.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Good for them. I will feel bad for any innocents injured, as I would in any other operation. But I won't shed a tear over the deaths of people trying to kill US troops.
I'm not Chardok or anything, but I have a few friends over there. It really feels different knowing that.
Too bad Rob Wilson isn't still posting, he'd comment on this.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Howedar wrote:Good for them. I will feel bad for any innocents injured, as I would in any other operation. But I won't shed a tear over the deaths of people trying to kill US troops.
I'm not Chardok or anything, but I have a few friends over there. It really feels different knowing that.
Snipers, the good ones, generally don't target innocents. They look for guns and rank.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
Regardless of the obvious necessity of such tactics, it's sort of disturbing that they seem so excited to have the chance to kill as many people as possible.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Snipers, the good ones, generally don't target innocents. They look for guns and rank.
I know. I was going to add in a "though I don't expect any civilian casualties in such an operation" but I forgot. Certainly USMC snipers aren't going to go around blowing civilians' heads off.
Seggybop wrote:Regardless of the obvious necessity of such tactics, it's sort of disturbing that they seem so excited to have the chance to kill as many people as possible.
You have to remember, most snipers have a bit of a "god complex". They kill at a distance with impunity, choosing who lives and dies as well as how, and they are chosen to have a bit of an aptitude for killing. I wouldn't say they are happy to do it, but they know doing it means fewer Americans and Iraqis will die in a firefight.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
I shall remember this when I am playing Call of Duty.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
Seggybop wrote:Regardless of the obvious necessity of such tactics, it's sort of disturbing that they seem so excited to have the chance to kill as many people as possible.
That's a natural reaction for all troops to something like this, guerrilla war turning conventional or close to it, for once the enemy is known and visible and the frustration is gone.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
While I can't be positive, I'm pretty certain I know the corporal they interviewed. Since the article didn't mention his name, I won't either, but I went to high school with him, and he is now the number 1 sniper in the Marine Corps.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Seggybop wrote:Regardless of the obvious necessity of such tactics, it's sort of disturbing that they seem so excited to have the chance to kill as many people as possible.
Meh, its a thin line to straddle. You train so long and so hard for a particular function that it is kind of fun/nice to actually try out your skills and do what you've been practicing for so long. On the other hand, you have to take in to account that what you've been practicing for so long is the killing of another human being.
Than in mind, killing is not an easy thing phycologically(sp?). There comes a point where you have to have a deal with it some how, a grim humor being a common way, or you go nuts.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Seggybop wrote:Regardless of the obvious necessity of such tactics, it's sort of disturbing that they seem so excited to have the chance to kill as many people as possible.
Meh, its a thin line to straddle. You train so long and so hard for a particular function that it is kind of fun/nice to actually try out your skills and do what you've been practicing for so long. On the other hand, you have to take in to account that what you've been practicing for so long is the killing of another human being.
Than in mind, killing is not an easy thing phycologically(sp?). There comes a point where you have to have a deal with it some how, a grim humor being a common way, or you go nuts.
There are people who simply see things in purely black-and-white. When this sniper receives his mark, he probably gets a detailed file on the guy. They don't send snipers after small fry targets; they send them after big fish who've probably been responsible for the deaths of tens or hundreds of people, directly or indirectly. They're unquestionably evil men, and that's all some people (like Marine Corps snipers) need to know.
Hell, were I in his position, I'd probably get excited about offing some of the assholes that populate Iraq at this point, too.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Durandal wrote:
There are people who simply see things in purely black-and-white. When this sniper receives his mark, he probably gets a detailed file on the guy. They don't send snipers after small fry targets; they send them after big fish who've probably been responsible for the deaths of tens or hundreds of people, directly or indirectly. They're unquestionably evil men, and that's all some people (like Marine Corps snipers) need to know.
Hell, were I in his position, I'd probably get excited about offing some of the assholes that populate Iraq at this point, too.
Snipers are used both stategic and tacticaly, so I'm sure your right about that but snipers taking out enemy officers or high value targets for suppression missions aren't necessarily taking out 'evil men', just enemy targets.
But you're right for your example, most the snipers I knew would not blink an eye if they were sent to take a shot at OBL or some such shit. But not all snipers are use in such high profile missions. Most sniper units have a roster of targets of oppertunity, such as if you see him, take a shot, but the scout/snipers in the article are being used more in a tactical sense.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Marine Corps snipers, as I understand it, are the real deal. They spend hours setting up their shot, and they have to factor wind resistance and gravitational drop into it. Tactically, that doesn't sound very effective to me, especially if you don't know where the target will be.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
But that one shot they take is:
A. damn near certain to be a kill (important considering rounds expended per kill in normal infantry action is something like a thousand to one)
B. going to scare the shit out of a bunch of insurgents who thought they were safe wherever they were
Snipers have it psychologically easier in the sense that by the time he takes his shot, he knows he's shooting at either someone who is trying to kill him or his buddies (if used in the tactical sense) or someone who has been deemed worthy of death by those higher up the chain (if used in a strategic sense).
But on the other hand, a Sniper has it harder in the sense that his scope puts an up close human face on the target. Reportedly it's different than being in a general firefight because you immediately see up close through the scope the result of your shot.
It's a job that I really don't envy.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Durandal wrote:Marine Corps snipers, as I understand it, are the real deal. They spend hours setting up their shot, and they have to factor wind resistance and gravitational drop into it. Tactically, that doesn't sound very effective to me, especially if you don't know where the target will be.
Scout Snipers are the real deal, but what your talking about is different missions. A point target mission would be an example of the situation you're talking about. The team would get an assignment to eliminate one or two particular targets with an intell dump to go with it.
Another way to go about it is an area target mission where the team would go into an area where the enemy is and engage high priority targets such as officers or heavy weapons personel or radio men, enemy snipers, ect.....
By reading the article, it seems that a majority of the snipers they talk about are deployed to take out targets of oppertunity though I'm sure they're briefed on VIP's in the area and I'm sure some teams are being tapped to target specific marks.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Hm ... that's interesting. In any case, while this corporal sounds a Hell of a lot like my old high school buddy (who actually is, last I heard, the Number One sniper), since he doesn't turn 21 until September and doesn't have a girlfriend back home. Being from the Midwest, running track and playing football in high school as well as the quotes sound an awful lot like him.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Just remember kids, sniping is only terrorism if it's done on civvies and can be made into a tv movie, otherwise it's entirely valid to snipe for the purpose of demoralizing and terrorizing the enemy.
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
