Women in the US Military

[Tsyroc]

Women More Females Paying The Price In Iraq

HeraldNet
April 19, 2004,


CARLISLE, Pa. -- Kimberly Fahnestock Voelz is buried near the church where she was baptized, a few miles across fallow farm fields from the stables where she raised quarter horses as a teenager. Next door is the yellow frame house she left one day in 1996 and, without telling her parents, joined the Army.

Voelz came home in a military coffin in December, dead at 27 from a booby-trapped bomb in Iraq. She was the first American female explosive ordnance disposal expert killed in action -- one of 16 women to give their lives so far in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Staff Sgt. Voelz died in the arms of her husband, Max Voelz, also a staff sergeant on the 17-person ordnance disposal team on which Voelz was the lone woman. Her parents, Floyd and Carol Fahnestock, were devastated by her death, but comforted by the knowledge that their headstrong daughter died performing a job she loved and living the adventurous life she had always craved.

"Kimmy wanted to do exciting things and see the world," Carol Fahnestock said recently while sitting in her kitchen, flipping through a thick photo album of her daughter's military career.

Across America, parents of young women are confronting a new military reality: Females are more likely than ever to be placed in or near combat zones. Ten women have been killed by enemy fire in Iraq, proportionately the highest number in American history. By contrast, one woman was killed by enemy fire in Vietnam, three during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and none during conflicts in Korea or Afghanistan.

After the 1991 conflict, Congress lifted prohibitions against females serving on planes or ships that were likely to see combat, and women rapidly moved into dangerous assignments previously reserved for men. Today the threat to soldiers is particularly high in Iraq, where a deadly guerrilla insurgency has placed every service member -- man or woman, combat soldier or supply clerk -- at risk of attack.

Nearly 20,000 women are serving in Iraq, 15,000 of them in the Army. At 15 percent, the proportion of females in the armed forces is the highest ever. Between World War II and Vietnam, women composed 2 percent of the armed forces. As recently as the 1991 gulf war, the figure was 11 percent.

For the Fahnestock family, Kimberly's death did not erode their support for women serving in dangerous assignments. Her parents say they would not have wanted their daughter to be relegated to a traditional female military role -- nurse, clerk, cook or supply soldier. Voelz insisted on an action-oriented assignment, and was one of just 37 female explosive ordnance specialists in the Army. She died Dec. 14 from injuries received while attempting to defuse booby-trapped tank rounds attached to an electrical tower near Iskandariyah.

"She was proud of what she was doing -- she loved her job," said her father, a Vietnam veteran. "She didn't want to sit behind a desk."

While there has been no groundswell of protest against the high rate of female combat deaths in Iraq, the matter of women serving in war zones is still controversial. A December survey by the Gallup Poll found that 16 percent of 1,004 Americans surveyed said women should never get combat assignments, while 45 percent said they should get such assignments only if they wanted them.

Women still are prohibited from serving in special forces, infantry, armor, artillery, combat engineers, certain air defense units, on submarines or on scout or attack helicopters.

Elaine Donnelly, a former member of a presidential commission on women in the armed forces, is leading a campaign for a review of laws in the early 1990s that permitted women on combat planes and ships. Donnelly wants women taken out of the line of fire, in part because of the risk of rape if captured. She says she has gathered 20,000 signatures on a petition sent to President Bush, asking him to direct the Pentagon to change its policies on females and combat-related assignments.

While the nation has no choice whether to send its men into combat, Donnelly said, it does have a choice whether to send women. Exposing women to possible enemy attack creates an unacceptable risk, she said.

"If we really support our women in the military, why place this burden on them?" Donnelly said.

She cited a 1998 General Accounting Office report, quoting a Rand Corp. study that found only 10 percent of female privates and corporals interviewed agreed that, "Women should be treated exactly like men and serve (in combat units just like men)."

Donnelly said she is surprised that female casualties in Iraq have not received more public and media attention. "It's as if nobody wants to think about it -- like the issue has been put in an emotional lock box," she said.

Marilla Cushman, a retired Army lieutenant colonel with Women In Military Service for America Memorial Foundation, a nonprofit group in Washington, D.C.,said there should be no distinction between the combat deaths of male and female soldiers.

"As retired military and as a mother, I can tell you that I would mourn no less the death of a son than I would my daughter," Cushman said.

Almost a decade after Congress lifted restrictions on women serving on planes and ships in combat situations, the matter is still controversial, said Dr. Judy Bellafaire, a military historian.

"A lot of it has to do with the whole issue of physical strength -- whether women would be able to physically handle assignments," Bellafaire said. While more men than women are physically capable of performing challenging assignments, she said, many female soldiers are strong and fit enough to do the job.

"There are some men who might be very highly skilled intelligence analysts or highly skilled behind the computer who could not physically qualify for a more dangerous or demanding assignment," Bellafaire said.

Bellafaire said she has not detected any backlash over the unprecedented number of women killed by enemy attacks in Iraq. "It's impossible to say that a female casualty is a worse tragedy than a male casualty," she said. "Every casualty means a family somewhere is devastated."

At the two-story Fahnestock home, reminders of Kimberly are everywhere. There are framed photos of her at a quarter horse competition, with her pet dogs, in her protective ordnance disposal suit, with her fellow ordnance disposal soldiers and in a military dress uniform with her soldier-husband.

In a scrapbook is a handwritten letter from Spec. Richard Brevard, one of the soldiers who escorted Voelz to the site of the explosive device made from tank shells taped to an electrical tower the night of Dec. 13. When Voelz went to inspect the device, the tape snapped and the tank rounds dropped and exploded, her father said.

"She was all about getting the job done right and as fast as possible while being safe," Breward wrote to the Fahnestocks. After the explosion, which nearly severed her left leg, Voelz "even made the effort to tell us 'Thank you' before we left," he wrote. He added: "Thank you for raising such a wonderful daughter."

Voelz was taken to a military hospital near Baghdad, the Iraqi capital, where her lower leg was amputated. Max Voelz, who was on duty in Iraq, rushed to the hospital. She died in his arms that morning; he removed the wedding ring from her finger, her parents said.

[Alyeska]

Elaine Donnelly is a fucking idiot. These women CHOOSE to be in the military. Its their fucking choice and Elaine doesn't have the fucking moral ground to take that away from them.

[Col. Crackpot]

Elaine Donnelly is a fucking idiot. These women CHOOSE to be in the military. Its their fucking choice and Elaine doesn't have the fucking moral ground to take that away from them.

equal rights = equal responsibility. Women should be in the draft pool if, god forbid, it ever comes to that again.

[Alyeska]

Elaine Donnelly is a fucking idiot. These women CHOOSE to be in the military. Its their fucking choice and Elaine doesn't have the fucking moral ground to take that away from them.

equal rights = equal responsibility. Women should be in the draft pool if, god forbid, it ever comes to that again.

In theory I agree, but in practice things are different. For starters, much fewer women will meet minimum requirements then men. Will drafting women be monetarily acceptable? Or are there already enough men not making it that a few more women not making their part of the draft that it doesn't matter? But as I said, I agree that women have equal responsibility. The problem is even if women get equal rights you probably will never get the women included in the draft. And this would probably come about almost solely because of the men, not the women.

[Tsyroc]

I just found it annoying that she had been one of the people who pushed for an expanded role for women in the military but then when she realized it might be dangerous, or women might get raped, then she changed her mind.

[Tsyroc]

Correction: I guess it doesn't say whether she was for women being in combat on not, just that she was on the presidential commision on women in the armed forces.

[Batman]

Correction: I guess it doesn't say whether she was for women being in combat on not, just that she was on the presidential commision on women in the armed forces.

Donnelly wants women taken out of the line of fire, in part because of the risk of rape if captured
From the very article. *emphasis mine*
Yes, she is.
While I very much want to say women have no place in combat, I can't come up with a single good reason why that should be so.
Yes, there is the rape thing. However, on top of the being tortured for information, to ammuse the gaolers, or just because you're an infidel and deserve no better thing, das that really make that much difference?
(Those who can say 'Yes it does you moron' from personal experience may now feel free to flame me to a cinder. I simply have no way to tell.)
As long as they satisfy the requirements of a given military occupation, I cannot come up with a logical reason why women should not be allowed to serve in it.

[Tsyroc]

From the very article. *emphasis mine*
Yes, she is.
While I very much want to say women have no place in combat, I can't come up with a single good reason why that should be so.
Yes, there is the rape thing. However, on top of the being tortured for information, to ammuse the gaolers, or just because you're an infidel and deserve no better thing, das that really make that much difference?
(Those who can say 'Yes it does you moron' from personal experience may now feel free to flame me to a cinder. I simply have no way to tell.)
As long as they satisfy the requirements of a given military occupation, I cannot come up with a logical reason why women should not be allowed to serve in it.

I was trying to correct my assumption that at one time she had been infavor of women in combat duty. It seems more likely that she's always been against it.

[Col. Crackpot]

rape is a war crime committed against men also. so by her logic we shouldn't have any soldiers 'in the line of fire'. unless she feels that women are a higher class of citizen, which is equally asinine.

[Batman]

I was trying to correct my assumption that at one time she had been infavor of women in combat duty. It seems more likely that she's always been against it.

Ah. My mistake then.
Carry on

[Montcalm]

To reduce the risk of women being raped by the enemy,send ugly ones.


That the most sexist thing i ever said..........i think

[Batman]

[quote="Montcalm"]To reduce the risk of women being raped by the enemy,send ugly ones.
Not feasible. Unless you know a method to rapidly breed consistently ugly but otherwise normally competent women, you get either a frickin' ugly armed forces subset that is likely incompetent as hell because members are exclusively selected for looks (or lack thereof), or you select for competence (as know) and end up with the average attractivity spread and thus, the rape problem.

Yes, I know you were kidding.
But everybody knows Batman has no sense of humour.

[salm]

Donnelly said she is surprised that female casualties in Iraq have not received more public and media attention. "It's as if nobody wants to think about it -- like the issue has been put in an emotional lock box," she said.

now i´m quite certain that at least this one chick got a b-52 payload of attention when she was captured. i can´t remember her name but she was some blondie who was freed by some iraqi doctor in a hospital. after bein freed she sold her story to the highest bidder and even managed to get some louse TV-film based on her story, IIRC.

and the rest of the women i thought get just as much attention as their male comrades, so what´s her problem?

[Tsyroc]

Privat Jessica Lynch.

There was a whole bunch of shit about her capture and rescue.

It seems to have faded away now.

[Montcalm]

To reduce the risk of women being raped by the enemy,send ugly ones.
Not feasible. Unless you know a method to rapidly breed consistently ugly but otherwise normally competent women, you get either a frickin' ugly armed forces subset that is likely incompetent as hell because members are exclusively selected for looks (or lack thereof), or you select for competence (as know) and end up with the average attractivity spread and thus, the rape problem.

Yes, I know you were kidding.
But everybody knows Batman has no sense of humour.

Yeah i know Batman has no sense of humour......And we all know he's a pervert he keeps a boy in his cave

[Batman]

And we all know he's a pervert he keeps a boy in his cave

And 1 (sometimes 2) 15yo girl/s, an elderly british gentlemen, and (possibly) a dog.
And there's cameras everywhere.
How I get away with this in a superhero comic I have no idea.

*Sniff,Sniff* Do I smell SPAM here, Master Bruce?
Oh all right.
Everybody back on topic.
*nudges Montcalm*
That means US, dude.

My apoll...aplo...apogo...

Sorry 'bout that.

[RogueIce]

Donnelly said she is surprised that female casualties in Iraq have not received more public and media attention. "It's as if nobody wants to think about it -- like the issue has been put in an emotional lock box," she said.

Because a woman's life is that much more important than a man's I suppose? Casualties should get equal attention, regardless of gender, or shall we start putting more emphasis on race-based casualties as well?

[Sam Or I]

In theory I agree, but in practice things are different. For starters, much fewer women will meet minimum requirements then men. Will drafting women be monetarily acceptable? Or are there already enough men not making it that a few more women not making their part of the draft that it doesn't matter? But as I said, I agree that women have equal responsibility. The problem is even if women get equal rights you probably will never get the women included in the draft. And this would probably come about almost solely because of the men, not the women.

This debate is going on another forum I am on. (Is anyone here also on supercars.net ?)

Anyways Israels conscripted force drafts women and men. So I am all for women being drafted.

[Shinova]

Women or men, if they can fight and fight well, then all the better, whatever the gender.

[The Dark]

Privat Jessica Lynch.

There was a whole bunch of shit about her capture and rescue.

It seems to have faded away now.

According to a friend of mine with Task Force Tawara, most of the early media hoopla was a crock of shit anyway. She was treated better than most of the Iraqi injured, and was in more danger of blue-on-blue than she was from her captors.

I know a bit about Connelly also from reading books on the topic. She was a member of DACOWITS (Defense *something* Committee On Women In The Service). She was heavily in favor of permitting women as line soldiers until there were mutterings about equal rights meaning equal responsibilities (i.e. the draft). She then completely flip-flopped her position and became very opposed to women as line soldiers.

[h0rus]

rape is a war crime committed against men also. so by her logic we shouldn't have any soldiers 'in the line of fire'. unless she feels that women are a higher class of citizen, which is equally asinine.

Sounds like one of those feminist 'women are goddesses' type.

[h0rus]

Privat Jessica Lynch.

There was a whole bunch of shit about her capture and rescue.

It seems to have faded away now.

According to a friend of mine with Task Force Tawara, most of the early media hoopla was a crock of shit anyway. She was treated better than most of the Iraqi injured, and was in more danger of blue-on-blue than she was from her captors.

I know a bit about Connelly also from reading books on the topic. She was a member of DACOWITS (Defense *something* Committee On Women In The Service). She was heavily in favor of permitting women as line soldiers until there were mutterings about equal rights meaning equal responsibilities (i.e. the draft). She then completely flip-flopped her position and became very opposed to women as line soldiers.

She sounds like the typical 'equal rights' female fuckface. Example: I'm just as good as you! But don't you dare treat me on the same level, or subject me to the same harsh criticism. What is it with these bitches/queens that makes them feel that they can accomplish anything, and then want the privs associated with that effort but without the work? I just want to hurt these stupid people.