U.S. reveals Iraqi prisoner deaths

[Plekhanov]

Reuters

U.S. reveals Iraqi prisoner deaths
By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two Iraqi prisoners were murdered by Americans and 23 other deaths are being investigated in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States has revealed as the Bush administration tries to contain growing outrage over the abuse of Iraqi detainees.

"The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said of humiliating images in the media of Iraqi prisoners. "Any who engaged in such action let down their comrades who serve honourably each day and they let down their country."

Army officials said on Tuesday that the military had investigated the deaths of 25 prisoners held by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and determined that an Army soldier and a CIA contractor murdered two prisoners. Most of the deaths occurred in Iraq.

An official said a soldier was convicted in the U.S. military justice system of killing a prisoner by hitting him with a rock, and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a private contractor who worked for the CIA was found to have committed the other homicide against a prisoner.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, at the United Nations for consultations on the Middle East, said only a "small number" of American troops had been involved in the abuse and vowed wrongdoers would be quickly brought to justice.

"I can assure you that no stone will be left unturned to make sure that justice is done and to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again," he said.

President George W. Bush, campaigning in Ohio, did not mention the abuse but his National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice again said the president was disgusted and outraged and had demanded those responsible be held accountable.

"The president has told the secretary of defense that he expects people to be held accountable, and that he wants, too, to know that this is not a systemic problem," Rice said.

"In other words, quite apart from the specific cases of those particular photographs, Americans do not dehumanise other people. That is not why we're in Iraq. We're in Iraq to liberate a people, to help them," she added.

NEW ALLEGATIONS

Six U.S. soldiers have been reprimanded and six others face criminal charges in connection with abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad, but Iraqi prisoners have complained of inhumane treatment by U.S. troops at other centres as well. The allegations first surfaced on January 13 but were only made public last week.

Images of Iraqis prisoners stripped of their clothes and being humiliated and abused have badly damaged U.S. prestige and credibility, especially in the Arab world. They have severely dented the U.S. argument that it invaded Iraq to bring democracy and human rights to a nation brutalised by a vicious dictator, former President Saddam Hussein.

Shocking excerpts from a report on the abuse completed on March 3 by Major General Antonio Taguba and acquired by Reuters on Tuesday, were likely to further stoke fury at home and abroad.

"Between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees," the report said.

"This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force (372nd Military Police Company, 320th Military Police Battalion, 800th MP Brigade), in Tier (section) 1-A of the Abu Ghraib Prison (BCCF)."

Taguba said several detainees had credibly described acts of abuse, including:

* Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees

* Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair

* Sodomising a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick

* Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them

* Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time

* Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped

ANGRY LAWMAKERS

On Capitol Hill, angry Republicans and Democrats weighed in on the scandal. The Senate Intelligence Committee scheduled a closed hearing for Wednesday.

"The prisoner abuse is so disgusting, so degrading, that I think humanity has been hurt broadly," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican. He said it could undercut U.S. efforts to bring democracy to Iraq.

Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican and committee member who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, joined many lawmakers in complaining that Rumsfeld and other top Pentagon officials failed to inform Congress of the situation.

Rumsfeld refused to use the word "torture".

"I'm not a lawyer," he said. "My impression is that what has been charged thus far is abuse, which I believe technically is different from torture ... And therefore I'm not going to address the 'torture' word."

Can this soldier kills prisoner with a rock is demoted, fired but not jailed thing be true? If so it’s a real gift for propagandists opposing the occupation.

[Joe]

This is fucking disgusting, absolutely disgusting. If they don't come down on this swift and hard I'm finally going to bite the bullet and vote for Kerry.

[Illuminatus Primus]

An official said a soldier was convicted in the U.S. military justice system of killing a prisoner by hitting him with a rock, and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time.

They don't get it, do they? Make an Iraqi's life worth not even any jail time, and what do you think is going to happen?

[The Kernel]

Sodomizing prisoners with lightbulbs? Where the fuck are they recruiting these idiots?

On a more serious note, this is about the worst possible thing that could happen in Iraq right now and its no wonder that Bush wanted to keep a lid on it for so long (aparently they have known about this since January when the first investigation was launched...). All I can say is, if they don't hang the motherfuckers who did this out to dry (no dishonorable discharge shit, I'm talking serious time in a military prison) they will be inflaming not only the Iraqis but also any American who isn't of the "Bomb the Sandfuckers!" crowd.

[Plekhanov]

An official said a soldier was convicted in the U.S. military justice system of killing a prisoner by hitting him with a rock, and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time.

I wonder if this is what Bush had in mind when in response to the torture photos said that he felt “deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated," but it was ok as the investigation was progressing and in reference to those responsible "I think they'll be taken care of,".

[Darth Wong]

Their strident claims that they're going to come down hard on the offenders sound pretty hollow in light of the fact that they've been sitting on this information the whole time and tried to hush it up until the cover got blown wide open by the "liberal media" (actually, the media tried to help them cover it up but the shit was about to hit the Internet fan, so they decided to jump in first).

[Hamel]

* Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees

How damaging is that to the human body?

[Plekhanov]

It would seem all those stories about the harshness of the military justice system have been grossly exaggerated and the “illegal combatants” awaiting tribunals in Guantanamo needed worry about a thing.
[sarcasm]

[Aaron]

* Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees

How damaging is that to the human body?

It's totally non-toxic. We used to break them open and have chem-light fights in the barracks.

[HemlockGrey]

"The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said of humiliating images in the media of Iraqi prisoners. "Any who engaged in such action let down their comrades who serve honourably each day and they let down their country."

Not to mention the Iraqis themselves.

[Durandal]

* Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees

How damaging is that to the human body?

It's totally non-toxic. We used to break them open and have chem-light fights in the barracks.

Did you shove them up each other's rectums, possibly releasing hundreds or thousands of glass shards into your innards?

[Nathan F]

Did you shove them up each other's rectums, possibly releasing hundreds or thousands of glass shards into your innards?

First off, they're plastic, not glass.

Anyways, this is totally disgusting. These guys oughta be serving time in Leavenworth. I hope that the military does come down hard on them bigtime.

[Aaron]

Did you shove them up each other's rectums, possibly releasing hundreds or thousands of glass shards into your innards?

No we didn't and that wasn't the point I was responding too. And unless the light was broken before it was inserted than there's no way to get glass in there. Chem-lights are very thick and hard to cut open or break so I doubt that one would just spontaneously break open inside someone either.

[Darth Wong]

Did you shove them up each other's rectums, possibly releasing hundreds or thousands of glass shards into your innards?

First off, they're plastic, not glass.

The reactant tube inside the chem-light is made of glass. That's the part that cracks open when you bend the chem-light to activate it. Normally you wouldn't come in contact with it, but if you broke open the plastic shell, you'd be able to get at it.

[Nathan F]

Did you shove them up each other's rectums, possibly releasing hundreds or thousands of glass shards into your innards?

First off, they're plastic, not glass.

The reactant tube inside the chem-light is made of glass. That's the part that cracks open when you bend the chem-light to activate it. Normally you wouldn't come in contact with it, but if you broke open the plastic shell, you'd be able to get at it.

Ah, ok. I was thinking they were plastic all the way through.

[Darth Wong]

BoyRocketeer's comments split

[BoyRocketeer]

I think only one guy out of fourteen served time, which was commuted from life to 3 yrs house arrest, in the My Lai Massacre. The Administration might very well do the same thing to these soldiers, given the fact that the iraqis werent brutalized as much compared to My Lai. Just let the whole thing slide away.

[Aaron]

Bush to do interviews on Arab tv.

WASHINGTON - In an obvious attempt to repair some of the damage done to the U.S. over accusations of abusing Iraqi prisoners, the White House has announced President Bush will do two 10 minute interviews with Arab television stations.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the actions of some American solders were unacceptable.

"This is an opportunity for the president to speak directly to the people in Arab nations and let them know that the images that we all have seen are shameless and unacceptable.

"These images do not represent what America stands for, nor do they represent the high standards of conduct that our military is committed to upholding," he said.

Bush will conduct the interviews on Wednesday with the U.S.-sponsored Al-Hurra television network and the Arab network Al Arabiya.

The U.S. has found itself accused of using excessive force in Iraq.

On Tuesday, a disturbing videotape surfaced that was apparently taken in December, showing U.S. forces opening fire from a helicopter on three Iraqis.

The pictures were apparently taken from a hovering U.S. helicopter and given to European media by a former U.S. Army employee.

There has been no official American reaction to the helicopter pictures. The Bush administration is apparently too busy trying to contain the scandal over prisoner abuse by its soldiers.

U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says the pictures of prisoners being abused by U.S. soldiers are "an exception." In the face of worldwide outrage, especially in the Arab world, the administrations strategy is to profess disgust, but insist these acts were the work of an isolated few.

"It was shocking, they showed acts that are despicable ... but at the same time, I want to remind the world that this is a small number of troops who acted in an illegal and improper manner." said U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell.

But a leaked, internal military report says such abuses, including sexual assault, were systemic.

Even Rumsfeld was at a loss to explain the actions of the American soldiers. "It is an exceptional, isolated, we hope, an isolated case. And our country is our country and it is a wonderful country."

So far there has been no apology, although seven U.S. Army officers have been reprimanded and six soldiers working at the Abu Ghraib prison are facing criminal charges.

The Army says a total of 20 investigations into prisoner deaths and assaults are now underway in Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Reuters news agency says unnamed army officials have confirmed reports that two prisoners have been murdered: one by a U.S. soldier and the other by a contractor for the Central Intelligence Agency.

In Baghdad, the U.S.-appointed Iraqi human rights minister announced his resignation because of the prisoner abuse revelations. Abdul-Basat al-Turki says he complained to the top U.S. administrator in Iraq about human rights violations last December. He says he was horrified and outraged by the photographs and believes the abuses are common practice.

Another minister is demanding Iraqis be given a role in running the country's prisons and the United Nations says it has begun its own investigation into human rights violations in Iraq.

The damage control has begun.

[Patrick Degan]

He can barely make himself coherent on American TV and this is supposed to change hearts n'minds in Araby?

[Plekhanov]

Does anybody know how Bush’s “easy Texan charm” or what ever the hell it is that allows so many Americans to even contemplate voting for him plays in the Arab world as it doesn’t seem to work very well in much of Europe. In fact pretty much everybody I know ranges from “can’t stand the guy” to “hate him with a passion & marched against his visit”.

[BoyRocketeer]

America is a very "anti-intellectual" place. Coherent people are often seen as distant or "elite-ish" to a lot of people, who prefer gung-ho dumbass with not a lot of intelligence.

[Plekhanov]

America is a very "anti-intellectual" place. Coherent people are often seen as distant or "elite-ish" to a lot of people, who prefer gung-ho dumbass with not a lot of intelligence.

Just assuming that you're right in declaring America “a very "anti-intellectual" place” for a second and that Bush’s status as a “gung-ho dumbass” (which I certainly believe him to be) is a major part of his attraction, does this mean that he should go down well on Arab TV or not?

From the little I can tell from the media Saudi for example doesn’t seem to be a particularly “pro-intellectual” place, does this mean that they’ll like Bush?

You could be right though as I know quite a few Arabs who are fairly intellectual (well most of them are students in a reasonable uni if that counts as intellectual) and they all hate Bush.

[18-Till-I-Die]

America is a very "anti-intellectual" place. Coherent people are often seen as distant or "elite-ish" to a lot of people, who prefer gung-ho dumbass with not a lot of intelligence.

Actually, i think that's a rather accurate interpitation. Lots of people truly think Bush's cowboy act is helping keep America 'strong'.

[BoyRocketeer]

America is a very "anti-intellectual" place. Coherent people are often seen as distant or "elite-ish" to a lot of people, who prefer gung-ho dumbass with not a lot of intelligence.

Just assuming that you're right in declaring America “a very "anti-intellectual" place” for a second and that Bush’s status as a “gung-ho dumbass” (which I certainly believe him to be) is a major part of his attraction, does this mean that he should go down well on Arab TV or not?

From the little I can tell from the media Saudi for example doesn’t seem to be a particularly “pro-intellectual” place, does this mean that they’ll like Bush?

You could be right though as I know quite a few Arabs who are fairly intellectual (well most of them are students in a reasonable uni if that counts as intellectual) and they all hate Bush.

I don't think intelligence has to do with Bush's appearance on Arab television. I mean, he HAS to do it regardless of whether Arabs like it or not, because he gotta go explain or apologize the matters to the Arabs. It carries more weight if the president is speaking to the people, rather than brushing it off with some general or spokesman.

[BoyRocketeer]

America is a very "anti-intellectual" place. Coherent people are often seen as distant or "elite-ish" to a lot of people, who prefer gung-ho dumbass with not a lot of intelligence.

Actually, i think that's a rather accurate interpitation. Lots of people truly think Bush's cowboy act is helping keep America 'strong'.

Yeah I know, just look at how in general geeks (or people who do well in class) are treated compared to jocks.