Cubans Protest New US Sanctions

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-14 10:18pm

CBC wrote:HAVANA - Hundreds of thousands of Cubans marched through the streets of Havana Friday to protest against new U.S. economic sanctions against the country.

People wearing red shirts and soldiers in uniform waved white, blue and red Cuban flags as they walked along the capital's waterfront and past the U.S. diplomatic mission.

Many shouted slogans against U.S. President George W. Bush during a protest lasting more than three hours.

Cuban officials said more than a million people took part in the government-organized march.

Last week, Bush decided to allow Cuban Americans to visit relatives in Cuba only once every three years and lowered their daily spending limit while on the island to $70 from $228.

He also prohibited Americans from sending money to Cuban government officials and members of the ruling Communist Party.

In a speech Friday, Cuban President Fidel Castro called last week's measures by the White House "ruthless and cruel" and called Bush a "fraudulently elected leader" trying to impose his "tyranny" on the world.

'No right to intervene': Castro

Castro said the U.S. has "no right whatsoever, except for that of brute force, to intervene in Cuba's affairs… and proclaim the transition from one system to another."

Experts say the U.S. sanctions will make little difference to the estimated $800 million US that flows to Cuba each year.

But the Cuban government warned of tough times ahead.

It suspended sales of everything except food, gasoline and toiletries in U.S. dollar stores in the country.

Castro accused the Bush administration of pandering to Cuban-American voters in Florida.

"You are attacking Cuba for petty, political reasons, trying to obtain electoral support from a shrinking group of renegades," he said.

Why does the US continue to punish Cuba for something that happened over 40 years ago? Hell they've normalized relations with Vietnam and yet they still continue to punish this tiny country that can in no way harm them.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-05-14 10:22pm

Because American foreign policy is determined by fuckheads.

And it doesn't matter which party you choose, you'll still end up with a bunch of fuckheads in charge who are apt to forget that they're imposing trade restrictions on a country for next to no reason and on the borderline of international legality.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-14 10:36pm

What I also don't understand is the limitation on visiting your relatives in Cuba. What harm can come from visiting your family?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-05-14 11:08pm

From what I hear, the Hispanic vote in the southeast is rather powerful and the majority of them HATE Castro.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-14 11:13pm

I don't see why the hell they are piling on sanctions on Cuba. I've always thought that the most effective weapon in the United States arsenal is it's culture and the dollar. If we exposed Cuba to American culture and let American money flow as much as it can, the people are going to start to see more than ever that they've got a really shitty deal. They are going to want what America has. And that would make Cubans want to jump ship on the communist government faster than baseball player on tour in the States.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-05-14 11:30pm

"Shrubby" Castro is evil he must be removed now.

Verdict next election Shrubby may be out and Castro will still be leader of Cuba.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-05-14 11:56pm

Uncle Fidel orders a protest against the US. How shocking.

Natorgator · Post by **Natorgator** » 2004-05-15 01:52am

HemlockGrey wrote:From what I hear, the Hispanic vote in the southeast is rather powerful and the majority of them HATE Castro.

The big time Cuban families in Florida also have ties with the Bush family.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-15 06:57am

It's no surprise the Cuban exiles don't like Castro. They were living large until Castro came and sent them packing. The US has been trying to impose it's will on Cuba since the fucking 1800s, it's got nothing to do with freedom, democracy, or human rights- Castro may be a son of a bitch, but no puppet the US props up in Cuba will be much better.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-05-15 08:43am

Gil Hamilton wrote:I don't see why the hell they are piling on sanctions on Cuba.

It's that time of the year again (actually that of the four years). It's quite simple: you bash Cuba, your vote goes up.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-05-15 09:16am

Vympel wrote:It's no surprise the Cuban exiles don't like Castro. They were living large until Castro came and sent them packing.

Let's see.

Cuba's population was about 11 million in 1998.
Slightly over 1 million Cubans have fled the island since 1960.
In 1998, over 500,000 Cubans mailed letters to the US interests section hoping to win a place in the visa lottery.

When over 1 million people flee during a 40 year period and you still have 5% of your population wanting to emigrate in a single year, I'd say there's some discontent with Castro that goes beyond a few rich exiles.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-15 09:38am

Glocksman wrote:Let's see.

Cuba's population was about 11 million in 1998.
Slightly over 1 million Cubans have fled the island since 1960.
In 1998, over 500,000 Cubans mailed letters to the US interests section hoping to win a place in the visa lottery.

When over 1 million people flee during a 40 year period and you still have 5% of your population wanting to emigrate in a single year, I'd say there's some discontent with Castro that goes beyond a few rich exiles.

Why'd you quote me, exactly? You seem to be responding to an argument I didn't make.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-05-15 10:00am

I would say there are a few reasons.

1: The Florida exiles votes, they would vote against anyone who tried to make up with Castro.

2: The Cuban missile crisis.

3: InFidel Castro himself have a spectacular talent for pissing off the US.

4: It is a cheap message to send to others that the US have a long reach and a longer memory.

I think the blockade will be lifted when InFidel dies, it should lead to a booming economy on Cuba. The symbolic US spitting on InFidel's grave.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-05-15 11:20am

Vympel wrote:
Glocksman wrote:Let's see.

Cuba's population was about 11 million in 1998.
Slightly over 1 million Cubans have fled the island since 1960.
In 1998, over 500,000 Cubans mailed letters to the US interests section hoping to win a place in the visa lottery.

When over 1 million people flee during a 40 year period and you still have 5% of your population wanting to emigrate in a single year, I'd say there's some discontent with Castro that goes beyond a few rich exiles.
Why'd you quote me, exactly? You seem to be responding to an argument I didn't make.

I thought you were implying that the Cuban exiles were merely rich ex-Batista cronies.

If you weren't, my apologies.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-05-15 11:49am

Glocksman wrote: I thought you were implying that the Cuban exiles were merely rich ex-Batista cronies.

If you weren't, my apologies.

Well, of course some of them are. Needless to say, the flow of immigrants from Cuba to the US clearly shows that some Cubans in Cuba ain't happy with the regime (no surprise).

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-05-15 11:59am

Vympel wrote: Well, of course some of them are. Needless to say, the flow of immigrants from Cuba to the US clearly shows that some Cubans in Cuba ain't happy with the regime (no surprise).

Of course it's hard to say how much of that is because of economic conditions which would likely be better without the US embargo. Not that I'd blame anyone for not wanting to live under Castro.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-15 12:03pm

Tsyroc wrote:
Vympel wrote: Well, of course some of them are. Needless to say, the flow of immigrants from Cuba to the US clearly shows that some Cubans in Cuba ain't happy with the regime (no surprise).
Of course it's hard to say how much of that is because of economic conditions which would likely be better without the US embargo. Not that I'd blame anyone for not wanting to live under Castro.

Not significantly better, the U.S. is really the only country in the world that doesn't trade with Cuba The embargo is just a propaganda tool for Castro to blame his failures on.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-05-15 12:04pm

And I seem to not be using periods in my sentences today.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-15 02:58pm

It's, in my humble opinion, the same problem with the majority of the politicans in this day and age; they're stuck in the Cold War-era mentality. They still believe that Cuba is evil and Bush is pushing it to home since that will = more Cuban-American votes -- just as his horrific support of Sharon's plan was meant to gain Israeli-American votes.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-05-15 05:45pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I don't see why the hell they are piling on sanctions on Cuba. I've always thought that the most effective weapon in the United States arsenal is it's culture and the dollar. If we exposed Cuba to American culture and let American money flow as much as it can, the people are going to start to see more than ever that they've got a really shitty deal. They are going to want what America has. And that would make Cubans want to jump ship on the communist government faster than baseball player on tour in the States.

They already largely know what America has, Cuba isn't nearly as closed a country as say North Korea. That's why so many want to leave. If that money and trade and goods flow into Cuba it's not going to make them throw off Castro, its going to give the population less reason then ever to risk there own necks against him. Realistically I doubt anything will get the communists out of power expect the death of Castro and that's only going to come from his death by natural causes.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-15 05:51pm

Joe wrote: Not significantly better, the U.S. is really the only country in the world that doesn't trade with Cuba The embargo is just a propaganda tool for Castro to blame his failures on.

Except that the United States is 90 miles from Cuba, and a lifting of the embargo would lead to a dramatic boost in the tourism trade of Cuba, not to mention exports (the US is the biggest consumer of cigars in the world).

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-15 07:08pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:They already largely know what America has, Cuba isn't nearly as closed a country as say North Korea. That's why so many want to leave. If that money and trade and goods flow into Cuba it's not going to make them throw off Castro, its going to give the population less reason then ever to risk there own necks against him. Realistically I doubt anything will get the communists out of power expect the death of Castro and that's only going to come from his death by natural causes.

Piling sanctions on them isn't exactly going to dislodge the communist government, either. It does however make them resentful of America, which only plays into Castro's hands. If they realize that the only thing stopping them from getting what America has is regime change, then they are more likely to persue it. They are more likely to go against Castro for a pro-US stance if they get a taste of good effects of the American economic and then realize that Castro isn't letting them get it than if they are buried under so many sanctions that it's impossible.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-05-15 08:06pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Piling sanctions on them isn't exactly going to dislodge the communist government, either.

Then perhaps we should invade instead?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-15 08:10pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Piling sanctions on them isn't exactly going to dislodge the communist government, either.

Why even bother to try and change Cuba's government? The only excuse they have for that is over 40 years old now. It's not like Cuba poses a threat to the US or it's interests, unlike Iraq apparently.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-05-15 08:57pm

jegs2 wrote:Then perhaps we should invade instead?

Of course not. We've already have enough places that our military is tied up in. But these sanctions don't really hurt Castro and his boys all that much and alienate the Cuban people. Plus, it makes it much harder to get the people dissatisfied with the government there enough to do something about it.